Christian or Catholic

[john78]

Didn’t know really where to put this… best guess is here…

I have been raised Catholic, I have no urge to switch to any other Christian religion, I understand what the Catholic Church offers in the forms of the Sacraments, and I am in discernment as well towards the priesthood…

I find myself pondering questions which just scramble my brain that I really cant explain and my local priests probably do not have the stamina to handle my truck load of questions as i keep on my journey so here i am in the forums.

With all the different branches of Christianity each from what I can gather breaking off from the Roman Catholic Church or perhaps splitting in half at the time the Roman Catholic Church was being formed… Are those other Christians who do not agree with the Sacarment of Reconciliation through the Roman Catholic Church teachings, thus considered not forgiven of their sins ? Along with interfaith marrages in these other Christian religions…Do these other Christian religions have their beliefs wrong ? I know some if not most others do not agree with a lot of what the Catholic Church offers or teaches…If the other Christian religions are just flat out wrong, then shouldn’t we as Catholics be trying to convert other Christians to the Catholic Church ? Not saying that there is some need to push this idea of the rest are wrong and lets beat everyone over the head, but are we as Catholics some how obligated to at least try to convert fellow Christians to the Catholic Church on top of those who just flat out do not believe in Christ.

I mean I understand to a fairly good degree why I believe in the Catholic Church and want to remain in the Catholic Church to the point that I want to keep following Christ and serve Him by at least discerning the vocation of the priesthood… But how to explain or comprehend why others should consider joining the Catholic Church because we offer the sacraments, believe that Mary is the Mother of God ( Christ ) believe in the Holy Trinity… etc… how does one communicate that in a way with out coming across as belittling , or condemning… or are the other Christian Religions just as valid as the Roman Catholic Church, and everyone is free to choose which way they want to go ?

 

[DavidSears]

Didn’t know really where to put this… best guess is here…

I have been raised Catholic, I have no urge to switch to any other Christian religion, I understand what the Catholic Church offers in the forms of the Sacraments, and I am in discernment as well towards the priesthood…

I find myself pondering questions which just scramble my brain that I really cant explain and my local priests probably do not have the stamina to handle my truck load of questions as i keep on my journey so here i am in the forums.

With all the different branches of Christianity each from what I can gather breaking off from the Roman Catholic Church or perhaps splitting in half at the time the Roman Catholic Church was being formed… Are those other Christians who do not agree with the Sacarment of Reconciliation through the Roman Catholic Church teachings, thus considered not forgiven of their sins ? Along with interfaith marrages in these other Christian religions…Do these other Christian religions have their beliefs wrong ? I know some if not most others do not agree with a lot of what the Catholic Church offers or teaches…If the other Christian religions are just flat out wrong, then shouldn’t we as Catholics be trying to convert other Christians to the Catholic Church ? Not saying that there is some need to push this idea of the rest are wrong and lets beat everyone over the head, but are we as Catholics some how obligated to at least try to convert fellow Christians to the Catholic Church on top of those who just flat out do not believe in Christ.

I mean I understand to a fairly good degree why I believe in the Catholic Church and want to remain in the Catholic Church to the point that I want to keep following Christ and serve Him by at least discerning the vocation of the priesthood… But how to explain or comprehend why others should consider joining the Catholic Church because we offer the sacraments, believe that Mary is the Mother of God ( Christ ) believe in the Holy Trinity… etc… how does one communicate that in a way with out coming across as belittling , or condemning… or are the other Christian Religions just as valid as the Roman Catholic Church, and everyone is free to choose which way they want to go ?

Luke 9:49 from the Good News Translation:

“John spoke up, ‘Master, we saw a man driving out demons in your name, and we told him to stop, because he doesn’t belong to our group.’
‘Do not try to stop him,’ Jesus said to him and to the other disciples, ‘because whoever is not against you is for you.’”

Hope this helped a little!

 

[Yearning_Heart]

As a Catholic, I would say we have the fullness of the truth that was revealed by Jesus, which includes Scripture and the Church, and other Christian religions will have differing scriptural or theological beliefs than we do though they still have a part of what we have in believing in Jesus. I think another thread even talks of how if baptised, they are a part of the mystical body of Christ as well.

Other Christians are doing the best the can and trying to live a good Christian life according to the commandments-and that’s commendable. In many ways, they are much more able to evangelise, talk about Jesus etc than Catholics are. We have alot to learn in that regard.

As far as Sacraments go: for those Churches without Reconciliation, their knowledge of sin and salvation differs considerably. The natural law of what is/isn’t a sin still holds true, but if you didn’t know about Reconciliation, God wouldn’t hold that against them if they regretted their sin as He isn’t bound by the Sacraments and can work outside of them. I’d be interested to hear what the Church says officially on this. Perhaps it is already in a thread on salvation outside the Church?

In terms of discussions with those of other Christians denominations–patience and charity go a long way as does an open mind to see their view, and can lead into some big, long discussions that can be really worthwhile. I would only do that if I was confident of my knowledge of the faith and only with people I know or where it came up in a conversation or something. I wouldn’t actively look for it.

I wouldn’t start by saying flat out that they are wrong, nor be condescending etc. I would ask why they believe what they believe on some theological point/aspect of their faith, and really listen and try to understand what they are saying, then discuss how that relates to Catholicism and see what they think. Its not about winning an arguement, but of being sincere in your friendship with them whereever they are at and of presenting our faith as accurately and openly as possible. And then leaving the rest in God’s hands.

 

[Aquila_Lucis]

…are the other Christian Religions just as valid as the Roman Catholic Church, and everyone is free to choose which way they want to go ?

This seems like your most fundamental question, though it has several layers.

To start with, no, Christian Churches outside the Catholic Church are not “valid” in the sense that they’ve got it 100% correct (for the record, the Catholic Church includes more than simply the Roman Rite; there are 22 other Rites which are in full comminion with the Holy See, but are their own autonomous sui iuris, particular Church).

Vatican II put the answer to this question a little like this: that there are rays of truth in other religions, but that the Catholic Church represents the fullness of what God wanted to reveal to his people. You seemed to have been arriving at this point when you spoke of Protestant churches not recognizing sacraments. Some of them (most of them) recognize baptism as a sacrament, but a lot of them don’t recognize the Euchartist. Does the error of not recognizing the Eucharist take away from the truth of baptism? No. The same can be said even of non-Christian religions, many of which would have some prohibition against murder or stealing (just like the Catholic Church) but which may believe in things that are simply un-Christian, like reincarnation. Again, does this belief in an untruth take away from the truth of “Thou shalt not kill” as it is expressed in another religion? Not one bit.

But the Catholic Church does offer the fullness of what God chose to reveal to us, that is to say, to humanity. All of it, the sacraments, the structure of the Church with the Pope being entrusted with the care of the Church, our Biblical tradition, Catholic spiritual mysticism…it is the whole picture which isn’t available anywhere else.

Does this mean that all non-Catholics are going to hell? Of course not. God is not restricted to the confines of the Church when it comes to His saving grace. People who are not truly aware of what the Church’s teachings are or why she believes what she does are able to be ignorant of it and still lead upright, moral lives, and God can save them. This is something that is often referred to as “invincible ignorance.” How can you hold someone responsible if they didn’t know any better, and did in fact, act as they knew best how to do?

But Catholics are not ignorant of this revelation. What it means for Catholics is that the Church, now that we know what she truly is–the fully revealed plan that God wants for us–means that we cannot turn away from her. If we turn away, knowing what the Church is and decide to try and seek salvation elsewhere, it is not an action out of ignorance, it is an act of stupidity. Fr. Tony Riccard, pastor of Our Lady Star ofthe Sea Parish in New Orleans, put it this way: “Ignorance means you don’t know any better. Stupid means you knew it was wrong, and you did it anyway. Ignorant people get into Heaven. Stupid people don’t.”

For your question about choice, though: that’s the beauty of the whole thing, you get to choose, not me. *Should *you leave? I’d say ‘no.’ Can you leave? That’s your call. Could you really leave the sacraments? Leave the Eucharist? Leave Jesus? If you answered yes, you may need to pause your discernment of the priesthood specifically and really pray about what it is God wants from you as a person first.

Find yourself a spiritual director, too. If you haven’t yet, do still contact your diocese’s vocations director and tell him that you are interested in the priesthood, but that you also do have some deep questions about why the Chruch believes what she does.

I hope this has helped some, long winded as it ended up being. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

 

[john78]

For your question about choice, though: that’s the beauty of the whole thing, you get to choose, not me. Should you leave? I’d say ‘no.’ Can you leave? That’s your call. Could you really leave the sacraments? Leave the Eucharist? Leave Jesus? If you answered yes, you may need to pause your discernment of the priesthood specifically and really pray about what it is God wants from you as a person first.

Find yourself a spiritual director, too. If you haven’t yet, do still contact your diocese’s vocations director and tell him that you are interested in the priesthood, but that you also do have some deep questions about why the Chruch believes what she does.

I appreciate the responses everyone, an i chose to quote this one because i wanted to clarify that i am not in doubt of the Catholic Church an I have no desire to leave, and I have a spiritual director and a vocations director as well, I just feel that i become a nusiance to them asking them such deep questions is all. and I dont take anything from the internet as being the only answer that I follow but am merely seeking in put to help get a better grasp of the discernment I am on, which I have put in my application as well. I don’t claim to have the best understanding of our faith, but I am always seeking to learn more and I want to stay on the path I am for as long as possible in this process and will always remain Catholic.

I just get curious as to how to discuss such things with others in public as I have come across a person recently who had made a comment of Protestants and Catholics being on the same team ( or he said something similar ) but he was being support of me in my discernment and I appreciated it, it just hit me with a flood of questions that I am really not prepared to discuss with anyone as my belief in the Christ and the Church is strong, but my knowledge on what the Church does and why and opinions that the Church may have that is actually written down I barely know… So things come with time an I know that.
And I am not trying to debate anyone in public any time soon nor do i want to, I just hope to be prepared when an if the time comes if someone hits me with such hard questions that have hit me and compelled me to post here.

Fr. Tony Riccard, pastor of Our Lady Star ofthe Sea Parish in New Orleans, put it this way: “Ignorance means you don’t know any better. Stupid means you knew it was wrong, and you did it anyway. Ignorant people get into Heaven. Stupid people don’t.”

This I kinda dreaded reading, as it seems almost better to be ignorant and live a good life to the best of ones ability, than to know what we know as Catholics and be " stupid " .
I just find it frustrating I guess that knowing what I know, it isn’t enough to be sorry for sins that i have committed, and to just go on in life like I have been; knowing that Christ still loves me, but that I am now being drawn more an more to the Sacrament of Reconciliation, I can’t claim ignorance anymore, and I am not about to be stupid. I do find it comforting this Sacrament, I just struggle with the insecurities I have in facing the same confessor over n over time an again… so it is a minor insecurity i know i can overcome… An I need to come to accepting that I am doing the right thing by going to Reconciliation as often as possible and when necessary and leave my doubts behind me.

An yes I do have deep questions on what the Church believes, and it isn’t because I don’t agree it is just I don’t know an I am unaware if the Catechism addresses everything, though i dont own one, hope to be able to one day soon… till then when surfing the net takes to long i hit the CAF from time to time.

Easier to pester the forum with long deep threads than send a giant email to my S.D or V.D an get no response at all ! ( which does happen sometimes )

 

[Aquila_Lucis]

This I kinda dreaded reading, as it seems almost better to be ignorant and live a good life to the best of ones ability, than to know what we know as Catholics and be " stupid ".( which does happen sometimes )

Well, to be clear, to put one’s self into a state of willful ignorance doesn’t work. This goes back to what constitutes the fullness of revelation. It’s difficult to be a person, especially a good person, and particularly in this 21st Christian century. the Church gives us the help to do it.

Sure, there is salvation outside of the Church. Yes, there are good people who aren’t Catholic. But, really, you’ve got to admit that It is so much easier to be a good person as a Catholic

 

[Joe_5859]

I would encourage you to read the Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism.

 

[fred_conty]

John,
that is a difficult question but an important one.

I like to think about it in terms of Jesus and Mary.

Jesus was active and publicly teaching in hope of converting … the sinner.
Whereever they may be he went to them, where they were at, for he went after the sinner, not the saint.
To me the active life would be to uplift the sinner whereever they are found and whoever they may be in the whole world, christian and non christian. But how to do this is to first know our limitations and well as our advantages. And also to know his will in our own life.

Mother Teresa had the idea of elevating everyone to see God and know God where they were. Not everyone agrees with this, but it is a good way for the world to be elevated toward God.

Mary held all things in her heart and contemplated them in quiet prayer. We do not have a record of what Mary did during the years after Jesus went to heaven and before she was assummed into heaven. But a good guess would be she was in prayer, similar to the contemplative orders. Maybe a reason for her approval of the brown scapular, a small garment indicating the contemplative life. This Marian way is another way to help sinners and the world.

But they both “went about doing good”, and seeking out sinners.

Just a thought.