Christian Palestinians

[Fr_Ambrose]

Lance:

In my opinion they are little better than animals.

Let’s look at statistics of the “animals” on both sides. They would indicate that the Jews are the greater animals (to use your term.)

123 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 707 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

1,084 Israelis and 3,790 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000

60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements

Excerpted from
ifamericansknew.org

Please see the site for more statistics and for their sources.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Tinkerbell:

So do you agree that suicide bombers are the solution?No, I don’t agree with suicide bombing. I never approved either when my own people, the Irish, killed the English with bombs.

If not, what do you suggest for a solution?/

QUOTE]

Judging by the Irish situation which is still unresolved there is no obvious solution.

 

[Lance]

Fr Ambrose:

Let’s look at statistics of the “animals” on both sides. They would indicate that the Jews are the greater animals (to use your term.)

123 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 707 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000…

How many of those childern were put in harm’s way by their country men? How many of them have been Christian? It should be the same percentage as the general population.
Fr Ambrose:

1,084 Israelis and 3,790 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000…

None by suicide bombers. What is the percentage of civilians vs military? Most of the Israelies were civilians and most of the Palestinians were Hamas of Fatah.
Fr Ambrose:

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000.

Why were they demolished? Because they were hiding or belonged to terrorist. If the PLO took over Israel tomorrow do you question that the slaughter of Jews would begin thge minute they took over?
Fr Ambrose:

60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements
.

It is not Palestinian land. It is land Israel took from other Islamic countries when they defeated them. If the land is to be given back to someone it should be Jordan and Egypt. See if they want to give it to the Palestinians.

 

[kmabba]

The problem Palestinian Christians face right now is separating themselves from Palestinian Muslims. They are not one and the same, the Christians have not committed these acts of terror nor do they condone terror. The sampling of articles I posted makes it clear that the Christians were never treated well by their Arab “brother” Muslims. They have not been treated well by their Judeo-Christian “brother” Israelis. They are hated by one and all and the noose is ever-so-slowly tightening around their necks.

The Jews are knowingly manipulated by Muslim extremists into attacking Christian homes and businesses. Israel’s only other hope seems to be that the Muslims will eliminate the few pesky Christians who continue to hang on.

The Christians do not have the numbers to resist Hamas and the other Muslims. On the other hand, they don’t have the numbers or weapons to defeat the Israelis. I find it interesting that no one here seems to really grasp the hopelessness of their position!

Their only strength lies among Christians abroad who ‘cherish’ their Holy Land. But that only seems to matter around Christmas time when they are gathered in their churches singing, “O, Little Town of Bethlehem”. Otherwise, no one notices and most importantly, no one cares - not Protestant, not Catholic, not Orthodox, not Oriental. But it is only the universal Christian Churches and the Christian tourists who can help their Christian brothers and sisters living in the miasma which has become Palestine.

Hamas, settlements, none of this matters in the eyes of God. What will matter is that the rest of the world’s Christians turned a blind eye and deaf ear to their suffering and their slow annihilation. I sometimes think this is what Jesus wept over Jerusalem for, not the destruction of the Temple but of the Christian soul.

As for Christian attitudes toward Jews and Muslims, whether they are Israeli or Palestinian they tend to consider both groups a pestilence and no better than dogs. Like I said in my first post, they are a people caught between a hard place and a rock with almost no room to wiggle. But they are a proud people, a loving people, a stubborn people. Only a miracle can save them in Palestine.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Lance:

How many of those childern were put in harm’s way by their country men? How many of them have been Christian? It should be the same percentage as the general population.

I remember how fervently we prayed for young Johnny Thaljiah when he was shot dead in Manger Square by an Israeli sniper for no good reason.

Here is something from a Catholic site. It has other similar stories.

64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:TZILJsXUD2sJ:www.cin.org/archives/al-bushra-holy-land/200110/0071.html+%22Johnny+Thaljiah%22&hl=en&gl=nz&ct=clnk&cd=8

"On Saturday, October 20, a young 17-year-old boy named Johnny Thaljiah was walking across Manger Square at noon. If any of you have come to the Church of the Nativity as a pilgrim in the past three years, you may have met Johnny. He would often sit at the entrance to the Church and hand out scarves or other covering for those who wished to enter the Church but were inappropriately attired. An Orthodox Christian, on this day he had just been
at worship with his family in Nativity Church. He was carrying the baby of one of his cousins, trying to make the baby laugh.

"Less than 100 feet from Nativity Church, he was shot by an Israeli sniper from a hill nearly a mile away. Johnny gently lay the baby down on the stones of Manger Square and then fell over dead. Johnny was not on anyoneb wanted list. He was a Christian worshipping with his family in the oldest Christian church in the world.

“Johnny was shot dead for sport, serving as human target practice. Perhaps a wager or competition between Israeli soldiers to see if they could hit a moving target at such a distance. Like shooting a rabbit or squirrel. They are very good. And their equipment was the very newest and best sniper rifles U.S. tax dollars could buy.”

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

cestusdei:

The ones I talked to said they did not like Hamas or its ilk. In fact they feel the Muslims take advantage of them. They have second class status. Some said they prefer Israeli rule to the abuse they suffer under the PA.

Why don’t you look at the statistics of the numbers and percentages of Palestinian Orthodox emigration from Palestinian Authority territories since 1993 in comparison with their emigration for the same period from the State of Israel. It says something about where people are more comfortable to remain.

 

[kmabba]

Palestinian Christian children are in harm’s way simply because they live there. Palestinian Christian homes are demolished because Hamas et al forcibly use them as staging areas for their pathetic rocket attacks. And even at that, a civilian militia is no match for a professional army. Anti-Islamism may be running as high as anti-semitism but the collateral damage is Christianity.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Lance:

None by suicide bombers. What is the percentage of civilians vs military? Most of the Israelies were civilians and most of the Palestinians were Hamas of Fatah.

Israeli Casualties: Adults and Minors

September 2000 to May 5, 2002
Civilian Deaths: 319

Palestinian Casualties: Adults and Minors in the West Bank and Gaza Strip
September 2000 to May 6, 2002

Deaths: 1,538---------------------------

Israeli Fatalities of Minors Under Age 18
October 2001 to May 5, 2002
Israelis Minors Killed by Palestinians in the Occupied Territories: 14 (ages 5 months to 17)
Israeli Minors Killed by Palestinians in Israel: 37 (ages 7 months to 17)

Total of Israeli Minors under 18: 51

Palestinian Fatalities of Minors Under Age 18

October 2001 to May 5, 2002
Palestinian Minors Killed by Israeli Security Forces in Occupied Territories
210 (ages 4 months to 17)​

To sum up: In the period September 2000 to May 2002

Israeli civilian deaths: 319

Palestinian civilan deaths: 1,538

journalism.berkeley.edu/projects/arccrisis/ispal-casualty.html

 

[kmabba]

Oh yes, lest we forget when the state of Israel was established and populated, there were people already living there (sound familiar to Americans?). How did the Jewish immigrants secure land to farm and build upon? Who sold it to them? Nobody!! It was taken from the Arabs - both Muslim and Christian - who lived there and whose blood drenched the soil.

Have you heard of the old Arab men and the rusty house keys they pass on to their children and their children’s children? They are the keys to the homes they were kicked out of with all possessions stolen by the Zionists during the so-called War of Independence. They were stripped of everything but the clothes on their backs. Perhaps many of today’s settlements are built upon occupied territory won from other nations but Israel itself is built upon Palestinian land that was stolen and the people living there were herded off to squalid refugee camps that still exist today like cattle. A desperate people will resort to desperate means when their backs are against the wall and the Israelis have had the Palestinians backs against the wall for generations now with the world’s blessing and no hope whatsoever that the Zionist shoe will ever be lifted from their throats.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

kmabba:

Oh yes, lest we forget when the state of Israel was established and populated, there were people already living there (sound familiar to Americans?).

Yes, for some weird reason (maybe to salve their conscience?) Western nations act as if Israel was a kind of uninhabited land when the Jews arrived en masse from 1948 onwards. They talk of it as a kind of terra desolata, empty and without people.

The fact of the matter is that it was populated densely, by Muslim Arabs and by Christian Arabs. Take a look at this map of the 418 towns and villages destroyed by the Jewish occupation in 1948.

palestine-net.com/geography/gifs/cleansed.gif

 

[luvthelight]

about a year and a half ago I had a palastinian christian come to talk to my parish, he was an excellent speaker, and really communicated the problem of what is happening in the area. He said that he wore his cross under his shirt now, because he was tired of being attacked and beaten for wearing it by the muslims, and he was tired of having his home area raided by gun yielding Israelis who saw no difference between him and the muslim next to him. he said that in gun fights between the two, muslims would run the extra blocks to take refuge in churches or christian homes so their mosques wouls not be hurt but the christian statues would be destroyed. the thing that really caught be was the truth when he said that every christian in palastian and israel fears for hte safety of our holy churches and monuments in the holy land because the christian numbers are dwindling, and few people outside of christians are willing to really watch over them. we must pray for our christian brothers and sisters over there, they need our help now more than ever

 

[Lance]

Originally Posted by Lance

Lance:

How many of those childern were put in harm’s way by their country men? How many of them have been Christian? It should be the same percentage as the general population.

Fr Ambrose:

I remember how fervently we prayed for young Johnny Thaljiah when he was shot dead in Manger Square by an Israeli sniper for no good reason.

I am sorry about Johnny, but just answer the question if you can. Israel says he was killed by a stray machine gun bullet. Since both sides have axes to grind I don’t know what I believe.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

Lance:

Originally Posted by Lance:
*How many of those childern were put in harm’s way by their country men? How many of them have been Christian? It should be the same percentage as the general population. *

I am sorry about Johnny, but just answer the question if you can. Israel says he was killed by a stray machine gun bullet. Since both sides have axes to grind I don’t know what I believe.

“How many of those childern were put in harm’s way by their country men?”

None that I know of. What figures do you have?

“How many of them have been Christian?”

Christian children? I do not know. However, adult Christians have been active in the resistance movement, some holding high positions, alongside their Muslim brother Palestinians. This involvement has been decreasing as Christians have been emigrating. The owner of the leading gift shop in Bethlehem (3 Arches) is now living in California.

 

[Lance]

Reported in the Washington Times following the PA takeover of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem in April 2002:

Residents of this biblical city are expressing relief at the exile to Cyprus last week of 13 hard-core Palestinian militants, who they said had imposed a two-year reign of terror that included rape, extortion and executions. The 13 sent to Cyprus, as well as 26 others sent to the Gaza Strip, had taken shelter in the Church of the Nativity, triggering a 39-day siege that ended Friday.
Palestinians who live near the church described the group as a criminal gang that preyed especially on Palestinian Christians, demanding “protection money” from the main businesses, which make and sell religious artifacts.
“Finally the Christians can breathe freely,” said Helen, 50, a Christian mother of four. "We are so delighted that these criminals who have intimidated us for such a long time are now going away."26

Adding insult to injury, during this reign of terror, the PA’s Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades (declared a terrorist organization by the United States) sent a letter to the Bethlehem municipality “requesting” aid in the form of monetary contributions for military operations. Cynically adding a symbol of Christianity to their extortion demand, the letter was signed “Fatah/Al Aqsa Martyrs (and Church of) Nativity Brigades” .

For more info on how Christians are treated by the PA;
jcpa.org/jl/vp490.htm