Christian Resistance Movement

[Jared_88]

I’m a 20 year male catholic, from Brisbane, Australia.
Having been born and raised in Australia to an Anglo-celt Australian father (Traditional Catholic) , and a Lebanese mother (Melkite catholic) I am proud to say the future of christianity (overall) in australia is in relatively safe hands. However having witnessed the country of my mothers birth succumb to ruination by Foreign invaders bearing the Koran, i have decided to take the next step and to form an Organisation called the Christian resistance movement, welcoming all my catholic and orthodox brothers. Call it whatever you want, but the bottom line is that the situation is no longer moderate, and therefore requires a more than Moderate view and/or action to address it. I have found like-minded individuals, and am looking for more. If you have myspace, add …
myspace.com/catholicresistance
Or if you have gmail, give me your address and i will add you more directly…This is not for bible bashers, this is for Christian men and women, who have enough courage to do something about their surroundings.

 

[kobefire]

u think so?
but have u tried it when u meet a girl u love

yeah it’s the time u can’t:thumbsup: move

 

[Jared_88]

is that a bot?

 

[cathopologist]

I’m a 20 year male catholic, from Brisbane, Australia.
Having been born and raised in Australia to an Anglo-celt Australian father (Traditional Catholic) , and a Lebanese mother (Melkite catholic) I am proud to say the future of christianity (overall) in australia is in relatively safe hands. However having witnessed the country of my mothers birth succumb to ruination by Foreign invaders bearing the Koran, i have decided to take the next step and to form an Organisation called the Christian resistance movement, welcoming all my catholic and orthodox brothers. Call it whatever you want, but the bottom line is that the situation is no longer moderate, and therefore requires a more than Moderate view and/or action to address it. I have found like-minded individuals, and am looking for more. If you have myspace, add …
myspace.com/catholicresistance
Or if you have gmail, give me your address and i will add you more directly…This is not for bible bashers, this is for Christian men and women, who have enough courage to do something about their surroundings.

Sounds more like a case of xenophobia. Perhaps you can elaborate more on this subject and how you derived to such conclusions.

 

[Jared_88]

Sounds more like a case of xenophobia. Perhaps you can elaborate more on this subject and how you derived to such conclusions.

Are you admitting that you have No idea about the Lebanese civil war?
If that’s the case…which I hope to God it isn’t…Then i shall explain. Iran and Syria are in callaboration with Lebanese Shia, to create an Islamic Force, unmatched by anything in the Region, Our Jewish brothers unfortunately have failed to eliminate the threat of Hezbollah, because they can’t…Hassan Nasrallah is too smart, and is encircling Lebanese christians by Strategically acquiring new Bases By force and surrounding the Christian populations, 40% of christians are now Hezbollah supporters, because Hassan nasrallah has recruited a maronite christian, and Ex-Army commander named Michael Aoun, giving the false impression that this TERRORIST (officially listed by Holland, Australia, US and Britain as a terrorist org) organisation is also looking out for Christians. Lebanon is a part of the “Holy Land”…Now the only reason what i said may have sounded Xenophobic is because i don’t ********, and i definitely don’t sugarcoat, like i said toward the end…I’m not interested in Bible Bashers, and False christians who aren’t willing to defend their Faith by any means necessary. Lebanon is the last Bastion of christianity in the Region, with a christian population of around 40%, which is unheard of elsewhere along the Levant and the entire mid-eastern region. Lebanon is also the gateway between east and west…Now once it has been taken, and occupied and renamed Hezbollahstan or something…Israel has no chance…Israel has tried to destroy Hezbollah and they Failed, because they physically cannot compete alone with such an opponent funded and supported by Syrians and Iranians.
It is a proposition…If you don’t like it…Ignore it…if you want in…Then i can be contacted, im not interested in time wasters and people trying to argue with me, by expressing their unwanted opinions and trying to look intellectual in front of other Computer geeks.

 

[cathopologist]

It is a proposition…If you don’t like it…Ignore it…if you want in…Then i can be contacted, im not interested in time wasters and people trying to argue with me, by expressing their unwanted opinions and trying to look intellectual in front of other Computer geeks.

Let me guess, you like Pauline Hanson? I am no expert in politics but i can sniff a xenophobic from miles away. There is a fine line from disagreeing with someone else’s religion and bigotry.

You can always use the “ignore button” if you think i’m a washed down version of a Catholic. But i think i should let you know, i do not think xenophobes are welcomed in this forum.

You may have better luck over at nazi.org. Go to the About/Racism page and you’ll find wonderful information on how they justify their anger: **"For this reason, we are opposed to “hate” as a motivational force. Our policy on race is not hatred, but love of our own people, and for each and every nation, such that we allow them to remain ethnic- and culturally-consistent populations."
**
Yes, your cup of tea.

 

[Jared_88]

Let me guess, you like Pauline Hanson? I am no expert in politics but i can sniff a xenophobic from miles away. There is a fine line from disagreeing with someone else’s religion and bigotry.

You can always use the “ignore button” if you think i’m a washed down version of a Catholic. But i think i should let you know, i do not think xenophobes are welcomed in this forum.

You may have better luck over at nazi.org. Go to the About/Racism page and you’ll find wonderful information on how they justify their anger: "For this reason, we are opposed to “hate” as a motivational force. Our policy on race is not hatred, but love of our own people, and for each and every nation, such that we allow them to remain ethnic- and culturally-consistent populations."

Yes, your cup of tea.

Why would i like Pauline Hanson?? The only reason you mentioned her is because you feel insecure about being Asian, and we all know Pauline’s stance on Asians. I’ve never researched Pauline Hanson, nor have i supported her, I don’t even think about her ever, because she has nothing to do with anything i just posted…
Dont start venting your personal frustrations and hijack my thread. Like i said…I don’t have time for lame arguments, I have made a proposition…If you like it…GOOD…if you don’t why waste both our time by replying with your childlike responses that don’t even interest me…It’s not my fault you’re all caught up on an Australian woman that dislikes Asian people…Take that up with her or her Party, not me…I don’t feel insecure about such things.

 

[Jared_88]

Why would i support Cultural and Racial purity???
Are you a moron? I mentioned in my first post…I’M AN AUSTRALIAN OF HALF ANGLO-CELT, AND HALF LEBANESE HERITAGE…you’re really stabbing in the dark for no reason and wasting time.

 

[Zlatan]

He’s not xenophobic, racist, or Nazi Jared88 is Lebanese and has Semitic ancestry as the Arabs do. Just because you oppose Islam doesn’t make you racist because ISLAM IS NOT A RACE!! Christians in Lebanon have long suffered under Muslim oppression while the west ignores their plight which is something you seem to be ignorant of.
Their only ally is Israel because they are surrounded by Muslim nations. Nowadays Islam is becoming more and more militant. Numerous Muslims, Muslim group and clerics have openly stated that they want to take over Europe. They want to set up a Islamic state in the UK and France. They want to retake Spain. They also wish to take over Rome and destroy the papacy. This is not just the ramblings of a xenophobic it is what the Muslims themselves say! And if we oppose that in this ultra liberal world you label us as racist? Is it wrong to oppose people who want world domination and to destroy our religion? I’m not saying all Muslims are bad or anything but that is their goal they have stated it. Even moderates want this? So we should just ignore the threat?
Evil wins when good men do nothing

-Deus Vult

 

[dzheremi]

Hmm. I wonder what inJESUS or other Maronites here might think of organizations such as the one you are trying to start? It would seem that the patriarch of the Lebanese Maronite Catholic Church is worried about an arms build up on all political sides if stories like this one are to be believed, so I’m not sure what throwing in another militant group is going to do to help matters.

I am trying to recall the exact words that Pope John Paul II used to rebuke the behavior of the priests that had become involved in the Sandinista movement in Nicaragua when he was there in the early 1980s. I think it was something like “Regularize yourself within the Church”, meaning that you can serve the Sandinista cause or the Catholic Church, but not both. To that end, I ask: What do you think Pope Benedict XVI would say to you and your group? I won’t pretend to know, but I would seriously think about that if I were a member of your organization. From an outsider’s perspective, it seems that the situation in Lebanon is an exacerbation of the sectarian tensions that have existed there since the civil war (and surely long before) because of an ongoing political crisis. Your own post hints at this when you mention Aoun as being in cahoots with Hezbollah, which leads Maronites to support them as well against their own interests. This is a sad situation, because it tells me that the Christians do not see a viable political option for their communities, so this is a problem of political leadership when nobody speaks up for them, but instead allies with untrustworthy partners while claiming to represent their communities. Again, I do not see how more armed groups will solve this. That is a sign of a complete breakdown in the political system that is supposed to prevent such violence and killing.

Was Christianity in Lebanon improved by groups such as the Falangists? I am asking because it is not my country, so I do not know, but I do know that reading about events like Black Saturday does not give me a good feeling about the fate of Christianity in the hands of militia men, and unfortunately this is true no matter what religion the militia claims to represent.

If the Christians of every country where Christianity is threatened (and that is unfortunately many countries of the world) had their own militias or terrorist groups, they might be able to survive a long time, and maybe even grow as communities, but could they survive and grow as Christians?

 

[Jared_88]

Hmm. I wonder what inJESUS or other Maronites here might think of organizations such as the one you are trying to start? It would seem that the patriarch of the Lebanese Maronite Catholic Church is worried about an arms build up on all political sides if stories like this one are to be believed, so I’m not sure what throwing in another militant group is going to do to help matters.

I am trying to recall the exact words that Pope John Paul II used to rebuke the behavior of the priests that had become involved in the Sandinista movement in Nicaragua when he was there in the early 1980s. I think it was something like “Regularize yourself within the Church”, meaning that you can serve the Sandinista cause or the Catholic Church, but not both. To that end, I ask: What do you think Pope Benedict XVI would say to you and your group? I won’t pretend to know, but I would seriously think about that if I were a member of your organization. From an outsider’s perspective, it seems that the situation in Lebanon is an exacerbation of the sectarian tensions that have existed there since the civil war (and surely long before) because of an ongoing political crisis. Your own post hints at this when you mention Aoun as being in cahoots with Hezbollah, which leads Maronites to support them as well against their own interests. This is a sad situation, because it tells me that the Christians do not see a viable political option for their communities, so this is a problem of political leadership when nobody speaks up for them, but instead allies with untrustworthy partners while claiming to represent their communities. Again, I do not see how more armed groups will solve this. That is a sign of a complete breakdown in the political system that is supposed to prevent such violence and killing.

Was Christianity in Lebanon improved by groups such as the Falangists? I am asking because it is not my country, so I do not know, but I do know that reading about events like Black Saturday does not give me a good feeling about the fate of Christianity in the hands of militia men, and unfortunately this is true no matter what religion the militia claims to represent.

If the Christians of every country where Christianity is threatened (and that is unfortunately many countries of the world) had their own militias or terrorist groups, they might be able to survive a long time, and maybe even grow as communities, but could they survive and grow as Christians?

Hi…i will begin by saying…I have Phalangist blood in my family, in fact some of the original members from the late 30’s, and also by saying…I’m a Melkite catholic, and my Great Uncle Jean Mansour (RIP) Was Archbishop of Lebanese and Syrian melkites…and in fact Almost became Patriarch of the Melkite greek catholic church…

Second i will say thank you for your post, because you raise some Great questions and put forth some highly valid points…Firstly…JPII was a Pope that i personally did not agree with on many aspects of the Overall management of the Roman catholic church…The catholic church is losing members and respect and just from my own observations (not statistical evidence) this is very clear in many social settings.
I do not agree with “letting things be” until they get so out of hand, that one is FORCED to start a Militia, Pope Benedict on the other hand, appeals to me a great deal more as an individual, because it sounds as though he’s careful not to jeopardize the true essence of the catholic church in favour of fanboy status.

On the subject of Christians following Aoun…i think this is not out of hopelessness, more out of Lack of understanding or education…Lebanese see Israel bombing, Hezbollah and Aoun who have control of the Media, portray Israel as the enemy…When they are Not our enemy, rather our neighbour and helper, trying to pry the Monkey named Hezbollah from our backs.
I would have to research more about the Nicaraguan situation to reply to you with something worthwhile, so i will leave it at that…
In conclusion i will say that although the Militia may not solve the answers…Fence sitting will only worsen the crisis, and delay the inevitable, my goal is to Halt what would be a Great tragedy…seeing Lebanon fall to the will of Shia extremism, My goal is not somehow to Force christianity upon the Lebanese, but to Allow all Religious Sects to Live FREELY and without an imbalance of Power…Lebanon needs to adopt a federalist system of Government, Hezbollah has too much control, and are too stubborn to accept negotiations on this subject, because their ultimate goal is an Islamic state. The thing is that Technically no christian militias exist anymore “above ground” because they would be ruthlessly persecuted. However it is Normal to see non-official Shia militia men bearing arms. Also…i believe the future of War will involve private militaries as opposed to Government Forces. Political crisis will never end in this Region, so people tend to view the situation already as one big crisis, with many sub-crisis…

 

[Zlatan]

Pope john paul opposed those sandanista priests because they were commies and into the dreaded liberation theologywhich he pope opposed. Not to mention that the sandanistas massacred many people. Jarred has not called for terrorism. All he called for was self-defense. There is a big difference between terrorism and self defense.

 

[dzheremi]

Thank you for your very thoughtful reply, Jared. I am glad that you seem to realize that I ask these questions out sincere concern and curiousity, not to tell you that you are racist or bad or anything, even though we may not agree in our outlook.

JPII was a Pope that i personally did not agree with on many aspects of the Overall management of the Roman catholic church…The catholic church is losing members and respect and just from my own observations (not statistical evidence) this is very clear in many social settings.

I have also written on these forums about the neglect of social justice issues and teachings within the Church that I have seen nearly drive some of closest friends to Islam, as Islam tells them that Christians and Christianity are weak and refuse to fight for what is right. I know that that is a lie, but I do think we need to address at local levels in all of our churches the real social and political issues that drive people from Christianity, because the world isn’t getting any friendlier out there, so it is up to us to show one and all where the Lord’s people stand. I think you would probably agree with me about this from what you have written, my reservation is over what methods can be employed while still staying within Christian guidelines. If we sacrifice our faith in the name of preserving it, what have we accomplished?

I do not agree with “letting things be” until they get so out of hand

Oh, neither do I, my friend. Believe me, I know too many good Christian souls from Iraq, Palestine, Ethiopia and other places that are besieged by violence to believe that there is never a place for physically armed resistance. Luckily, the Catholic Church has the doctrine of “Just War” that agrees with this reality, but of course under limited and stringent conditions. So my only question is: Who is it allowed to choose when “enough is enough”?

Pope Benedict on the other hand, appeals to me a great deal more as an individual, because it sounds as though he’s careful not to jeopardize the true essence of the catholic church in favour of fanboy status.

Okay. I respect your opinion. I do not really mean to engage in a conversation about the relative appeal of different Popes.

On the subject of Christians following Aoun…i think this is not out of hopelessness, more out of Lack of understanding or education…Lebanese see Israel bombing, Hezbollah and Aoun who have control of the Media, portray Israel as the enemy…When they are Not our enemy, rather our neighbour and helper, trying to pry the Monkey named Hezbollah from our backs.

Fair enough. This is also a sort of leadership issue, isn’t it? Although not explicitly political, its outcome is: What the people are taught and told (or not) indeed helps to form national and individual opinion. Better leaders will be more candid with their people, and not point to scapegoats of any kind.

I would have to research more about the Nicaraguan situation to reply to you with something worthwhile, so i will leave it at that…

No need. I brought up the Nicaraguan example to show another situation in which Christian men were split in their loyalty between a political cause that they deeply believed in and the religion to which they had claimed to have dedicated their lives and souls. Pope John Paul II wouldn’t allow this because God is most certainly not a Marxist. I will not put any words into anyone’s mouths, but I still wonder what Pope Benedict XVI might say about those who wish to serve a militia and the faith. I obviously don’t have an answer because I am not him, but I’m just saying it’s something that gives me reason to pause when I otherwise agree with at least a lot of your motivation if not your method.

In conclusion i will say that although the Militia may not solve the answers…Fence sitting will only worsen the crisis, and delay the inevitable

Okay. My point in bringing up the Falangists earlier was that there already were these militias during the civil war, and yet the imbalance of power that you talk about, the Shia militancy, all these problems, still they remain. So what will a militia do now (especially since you admit that it won’t be the answer to the problems) that it couldn’t do in 1975?

Again, thanks for your good reply. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts once more.

 

[dzheremi]

Pope john paul opposed those sandanista priests because they were commies and into the dreaded liberation theologywhich he pope opposed. Not to mention that the sandanistas massacred many people. Jarred has not called for terrorism. All he called for was self-defense. There is a big difference between terrorism and self defense.

Hi Zlatan,

I gave my reason for including the Nicaraguan example in my reply to Jared just now, so please read it and you’ll see that my issue is not with the Sandinistas in particular. I personally detest communism, but this isn’t really the issue.

Neither is the issue whether or not Jared advocated terrorism. I never said he did. I said IF the Christians had their own militia or terrorist groups, in a hypothetical situation where it would somehow be possible, would it then be acceptable, given the circumstances that brought it into existence? Would it then be Christian? Let us not forget that Hizbullah and all the others also think they are completely justified in what they do based on the circumstances that they perceive they are in. Unfortunately, the Islamic scholars give them sanction. Our Christian leaders and the teachings of the forefathers may not do the same for us, even when we really are convinced that we need it.

 

[Jared_88]

Thank you for your very thoughtful reply, Jared. I am glad that you seem to realize that I ask these questions out sincere concern and curiousity, not to tell you that you are racist or bad or anything, even though we may not agree in our outlook.

I have also written on these forums about the neglect of social justice issues and teachings within the Church that I have seen nearly drive some of closest friends to Islam, as Islam tells them that Christians and Christianity are weak and refuse to fight for what is right. I know that that is a lie, but I do think we need to address at local levels in all of our churches the real social and political issues that drive people from Christianity, because the world isn’t getting any friendlier out there, so it is up to us to show one and all where the Lord’s people stand. I think you would probably agree with me about this from what you have written, my reservation is over what methods can be employed while still staying within Christian guidelines. If we sacrifice our faith in the name of preserving it, what have we accomplished?

Oh, neither do I, my friend. Believe me, I know too many good Christian souls from Iraq, Palestine, Ethiopia and other places that are besieged by violence to believe that there is never a place for physically armed resistance. Luckily, the Catholic Church has the doctrine of “Just War” that agrees with this reality, but of course under limited and stringent conditions. So my only question is: Who is it allowed to choose when “enough is enough”?

Okay. I respect your opinion. I do not really mean to engage in a conversation about the relative appeal of different Popes.

Fair enough. This is also a sort of leadership issue, isn’t it? Although not explicitly political, its outcome is: What the people are taught and told (or not) indeed helps to form national and individual opinion. Better leaders will be more candid with their people, and not point to scapegoats of any kind.

No need. I brought up the Nicaraguan example to show another situation in which Christian men were split in their loyalty between a political cause that they deeply believed in and the religion to which they had claimed to have dedicated their lives and souls. Pope John Paul II wouldn’t allow this because God is most certainly not a Marxist. I will not put any words into anyone’s mouths, but I still wonder what Pope Benedict XVI might say about those who wish to serve a militia and the faith. I obviously don’t have an answer because I am not him, but I’m just saying it’s something that gives me reason to pause when I otherwise agree with at least a lot of your motivation if not your method.

Okay. My point in bringing up the Falangists earlier was that there already were these militias during the civil war, and yet the imbalance of power that you talk about, the Shia militancy, all these problems, still they remain. So what will a militia do now (especially since you admit that it won’t be the answer to the problems) that it couldn’t do in 1975?

Again, thanks for your good reply. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts once more.

thanks for the reply…
I’ll answer a few of your questions by raising questions…
I believe that God will judge us, and not fight our battles for us, therefore is it not our duty to protect our only Link to God (our faith)?
I’m still a human being, we’re all human beings, sometimes we are overcome with a sense of duty, that we can’t ignore, and that we shouldn’t ignore…
What will happen to the Lebanese christians…with no external assistance in the greatest fight they will have ever seen?
They will die, there is no question in my mind that they face extinction. With the organisation being External it allows it to Function properly being in the free world. I think it is our duty as individuals to decide when ‘enough is enough’, simply because God will not do it for us…if we decide foolishly it is God who will judge us…but, Something must be done, because there is no longer time to wait, the period of waiting is going to cost us many lives.

 

[Zlatan]

I beleive in St. Augustine’s Doctrine of Just War. I know jesus told us to love our enemies but sometimes in this world we have to fight for our existence. We do have the right to defend ourselves. I am in no way advocating terrorism but if hezbollah goes out and attacks chrsitian areas of course i think chrisitans have the right to defend themselves and especially their women and children. It is a sin to deliver the innocent unto evil. As for who has the right to call for a just war in Lebanon i think the head maronite and melkite patriachs have that right because they are not administered by rome. They best understand the situation of their people

 

[dzheremi]

Thanks, Jared, for this reply.

While I do not believe as you do that it is our duty as individuals to decide when we are justified to take up arms in an organized militia (in fact, I thought that the entire doctrine of Just War exists to answer this question, so that we don’t decide for ourselves, since we might decide without thinking of all that we should beforehand), I can appreciate your view. I too worry greatly about the fate of the Lebanese Christians in the jaws of Hizbullah (and the Assyrians and Chaldeans in Iraq, the mostly ethnic Armenian majority and Muslim-background minority Christians in Iran, the recent martyrs in Turkey, etc). Still I wonder again what it is that a militia will accomplish now in 2008 that it couldn’t accomplish in 1978.

Zlatan: Of course I agree with you on all counts. We Christians absolutely have a right to defend ourselves, with appropriate force when necessary! I mentioned my agreement with the Just War doctrine, and my question wasn’t which particular church should be able to apply it (obviously, the eastern catholics know best what they are going through), but whether or not it was right to apply it individually, outside of church consultation and ruiling, because individuals feel it necessary.

 

[cathopologist]

Dear Jared,
I’ve been to Australia several times for holiday retreats and visiting friends. Not a single person from Queensland, Victoria and WA looked at me strangely because i’m Indian. I quite liked their hospitality and friendliness actually. Although i have heard of Aussies who are brash and immature**. **Thankfully none of my Aussie friends are like that.

I’m not the one actively looking for militants (to join an “organization” you conjured) because of your insecurity towards Muslims, and the paranoia of them taking over the world. Although there are legitimate concerns over that issue especially over in Europe and America (I do joke about it sometimes ). However, i do not believe in looking for trouble or seeking a reason to find some. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

dzheremi raises some good points and i’m in agreement with his responses so far, especially on the topic of Just War.

…whether or not it was right to apply it individually, outside of church consultation and ruiling, because individuals feel it necessary.

 

[Jared_88]

Dear Jared,
I’ve been to Australia several times for holiday retreats and visiting friends. Not a single person from Queensland, Victoria and WA looked at me strangely because i’m Indian. I quite liked their hospitality and friendliness actually. Although i have heard of Aussies who are brash and immature**. **Thankfully none of my Aussie friends are like that.

I’m not the one actively looking for militants (to join an “organization” you conjured) because of your insecurity towards Muslims, and the paranoia of them taking over the world. Although there are legitimate concerns over that issue especially over in Europe and America (I do joke about it sometimes ). However, i do not believe in looking for trouble or seeking a reason to find some. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

dzheremi raises some good points and i’m in agreement with his responses so far, especially on the topic of Just War.

Well, you call it paranoia…i call it Realistic.
Militants is a word that moderates use to make something sound extreme…you make it sound as though i’m going to Start slaughtering random islamic people in the street.

americancongressfortruth.com

all Credit goes to bpbasilphx for providing me with this link.

 

[ChristianKnight]

Sounds like your trying to start a religious war, didn’t turn out well 800 years ago, won’t turn out good now.