Christian Scientists

[Texsain]

Does the Church consider Christian Scientists (the Mary Baker Eddy church), Christian?

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I believe so, as they have a correct understanding of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. They’re just way out on the fringe, like the SDAs (despite popular opinioin, the Catholic Church does consider SDAs Christian). I think (someone correct me if I’m wrong) we consider Oneness Pentecostals Christians, too, even though they deny the Trinity. We just don’t believe they have a valid baptism, but they believe in Christ’s divinity and worship Him as God.

In Christ,
Ellen

 

[Texsain]

I believe so, as they have a correct understanding of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. They’re just way out on the fringe, like the SDAs (despite popular opinioin, the Catholic Church does consider SDAs Christian). I think (someone correct me if I’m wrong) we consider Oneness Pentecostals Christians, too, even though they deny the Trinity. We just don’t believe they have a valid baptism, but they believe in Christ’s divinity and worship Him as God.

In Christ,
Ellen

I always understood that the Trinity is the key, so I don’t see how OPC would be considered Christians.

 

[meltzerboy]

Does the Church consider Christian Scientists (the Mary Baker Eddy church), Christian?

I’m not sure what the Church says about Christian Scientists, but, according to my understanding, they are not “Christian” in the conventional sense by any means. Christian Science does not believe in heaven or hell and they do not believe Jesus atoned for the sins of humanity. I don’t think they accept Jesus as G-d but instead regard Him as a mediator who connected mankind to G-d through his suffering and death. They view the miracles of Jesus as an illustration of the power of mind over matter. Their view of G-d is one of an incorporeal mind or spirit only and reject the Incarnation. The mother of the late opera singer, Beverly Sills, was Christian Scientist and Jewish at the same time, evidently not seeing any contradiction.

 

[owensjo]

I believe so, as they have a correct understanding of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. They’re just way out on the fringe, like the SDAs (despite popular opinioin, the Catholic Church does consider SDAs Christian). I think (someone correct me if I’m wrong) we consider Oneness Pentecostals Christians, too, even though they deny the Trinity. We just don’t believe they have a valid baptism, but they believe in Christ’s divinity and worship Him as God.

In Christ,
Ellen

The Catholic Church, and most Protestant denominations, do not consider SDA to be Christian because, among many other reasons, they consider Jesus and Michael the archangel to be one and the same. Also, someone cannot be considered a Christian if they do not have a valid baptism as that is one of the conditions for entry into the church.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

The term “Christian” is used in different ways. If you mean someone who has been made a member of the Church in baptism, I don’t think so, because Christian Science doesn’t have water baptism (cf. Validity of Baptism in the Christian Science Church), though some individuals may have been baptized validly outside their religion.

If you mean someone who believes in the Blessed Trinity, I don’t know enough about their theology to know whether they would be included under that definition or not.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

someone cannot be considered a Christian if they do not have a valid baptism as that is one of the conditions for entry into the church.

According to “Catholic Doors Ministry,” Christian Science does not have a rite of water baptism. Though of course individuals could have been baptized outside their religion.

 

[Texsain]

The Catholic Church, and most Protestant denominations, do not consider SDA to be Christian because, among many other reasons, they consider Jesus and Michael the archangel to be one and the same. Also, someone cannot be considered a Christian if they do not have a valid baptism as that is one of the conditions for entry into the church.

From a Catholic Answers tract

Many Evangelical leaders even have asserted—incorrectly—that Adventists are not Christians, even though they believe in Christ’s divinity and use a valid Trinitarian form of baptism.

SDAs do not believe the same thing that Jehovah’s Witnesses about Christ and Michael the Archangel:

It has been charged that Seventh-day Adventists hold the same belief as do the Jehovah’s Witnesses concerning Michael—that Michael the archangel was Jesus Christ prior to His incarnation, and that he was a created being. Is this accusation valid? If Michael is Christ, how do you explain Jude 9?

We emphatically reject the idea set forth in this question, and the position held by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. We do not believe that Christ is a created being. We, as a people, have not considered the identification of Michael of sufficient prominence to dwell upon it at length either in our literature or in our preaching. But we do have clear views on the subject, and are prepared to set them forth. And our views concerning Michael, it might be added, have been held by various eminent scholars through the centuries. We are therefore not alone in our understanding.

We believe that the term “Michael” is but one of the many titles applied to the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead. But such a view does not in any way conflict with our belief in His full deity and eternal pre-existence, nor does it in the least disparage His person and work.

 

[Texsain]

According to “Catholic Doors Ministry,” Christian Science does not have a rite of water baptism. Though of course individuals could have been baptized outside their religion.

True, but that’s a moot point. Christian Scientists raised in their religion, even if they have beliefs of some Christians, wouldn’t be baptized into the faith. The status might be said to be similar to a Baptist who accepts Christ but chooses not to be baptized (despite the name “Baptist”, they don’t believe baptism is necessary to be saved or to be a Christian)

 

[owensjo]

From a Catholic Answers tract

SDAs do not believe the same thing that Jehovah’s Witnesses about Christ and Michael the Archangel:

The SDA are still incorrect in using Michael as a name for Jesus Christ, in spite of what they say in their literature. The also have a different concept of the Trinity than Christians do, and if that isn’t enough, they believe Sunday worship is the mark of the beast (hence the name Seventh Day Adventists). That last point pretty much eliminates Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants from the mix. They align themselves with Protestanism to give credibilty to their positions, but they are still considered a cult by many Christians.

 

[Texsain]

but they are still considered a cult by many Christians.

Well, so are we.

 

[owensjo]

Well, so are we.

The majority of Christians, i.e., mainline Protestants and Orthodox, do not consider Catholicism a cult. That is a position that is maintained by a small minority of Christians, such as the Bereans, who also are very aggressive about teaching things such as the rapture. The SDA, on the other hand, see the mark of the beast everywhere, including the Papacy, and as such have marginalized themselves from the mainline denominations I’m talking about. There is a new generation of SDA who are getting away from the old teachings, but the Old Guard dies hard.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I’m not sure what the Church says about Christian Scientists, but, according to my understanding, they are not “Christian” in the conventional sense by any means. Christian Science does not believe in heaven or hell and they do not believe Jesus atoned for the sins of humanity. I don’t think they accept Jesus as G-d but instead regard Him as a mediator who connected mankind to G-d through his suffering and death. They view the miracles of Jesus as an illustration of the power of mind over matter. Their view of G-d is one of an incorporeal mind or spirit only and reject the Incarnation. The mother of the late opera singer, Beverly Sills, was Christian Scientist and Jewish at the same time, evidently not seeing any contradiction.

Wow. I didn’t realize that about the Christian Scientists. I knew they considered MBE’s writing on-par (or very nearly so) with Scripture, but didn’t know about denying heaven, hell, and the Atonement. On what basis, I wonder?

In Christ,
Ellen

 

[ALLGIRLS]

The Catholic Church, and most Protestant denominations, do not consider SDA to be Christian because, among many other reasons, they consider Jesus and Michael the archangel to be one and the same. Also, someone cannot be considered a Christian if they do not have a valid baptism as that is one of the conditions for entry into the church.

SDAs have a valid baptism (they believe in the Trinity) and don’t consider Jesus the Archangel Michael. That’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

In Christ,
Ellen

 

[owensjo]

SDAs have a valid baptism (they believe in the Trinity) and don’t consider Jesus the Archangel Michael. That’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

In Christ,
Ellen

See the other posts on this topic. SDA believe in a different concept of the Trinity than you or I.

 

[owensjo]

SDAs have a valid baptism (they believe in the Trinity) and don’t consider Jesus the Archangel Michael. That’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

In Christ,
Ellen

They actually teach a form of Tritheism instead of the orthodox Trinitarianism. Their literature states they do not consider Jesus a created being, yet they insist on calling Jesus “Michael”, which if you think about it is a strange thing to do. At the very least, they’re confused about who Jesus actually is.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

They actually teach a form of Tritheism instead of the orthodox Trinitarianism. Their literature states they do not consider Jesus a created being, yet they insist on calling Jesus “Michael”, which if you think about it is a strange thing to do. At the very least, they’re confused about who Jesus actually is.

Then why do the Catholic Answers apologist believe they are Christians? Has any who ever converted from SDA have to get rebaptized? That would settle the question. Technically, Southern Baptists don’t believe the same thing about Baptism that we do (they don’t believe it saves or does anything at all, it’s just a symbol), yet we still say it’s valid. I can’t understand that. They obviously do NOT “intend to do what the Church does” (wash away original sin and infuse the soul with grace, leaving a permanent mark/ontological change).

In Christ,
Ellen

 

[owensjo]

Then why do the Catholic Answers apologist believe they are Christians? Has any who ever converted from SDA have to get rebaptized? That would settle the question. Technically, Southern Baptists don’t believe the same thing about Baptism that we do (they don’t believe it saves or does anything at all, it’s just a symbol), yet we still say it’s valid. I can’t understand that. They obviously do NOT “intend to do what the Church does” (wash away original sin and infuse the soul with grace, leaving a permanent mark/ontological change).

In Christ,
Ellen

I know that the SDA church itself rebaptizes converts if the individual was not, in their view, properly baptized, i.e., through sprinkling, infant baptism, etc. I believe the reason Baptists are considered to have a valid baptism is because they have an orthodox understanding of the Trinity and the Redemption. As I stated in my previous post, SDA have a different understanding of the Trinity, and to the SDA church, redemption comes about when an individual repents and turns to Christ as a “substitute” for sin, They also have doctrines found in no other denomination, such as soul sleep, investigative judgement, and the denial of an eternal hell. It is for all these reasons, and a few more, that they are considered a “sect” by most mainstream believers.

 

[aspirant]

It’s been a while since I’ve read much CS literature but, if memory serves, it’s a form of neognosticism.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

Depends on the Adventist you talk to, actually. Their statement of faith clearly shows belief in the Trinity adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/ 2. Trinity:
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. and on the Incarnation 4. Son:
God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God’s power and was attested as God’s promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things.