'Christian unity': Should all Christians become Catholic?

[The_Reginator]

Premising that Jesus divinely established one Church with Peter as Her earthly head (ie. the Catholic Church) and that He wants His Church to be united, wouldn’t it follow that in praying for Christian unity we should we be praying that all Christians come home to the Catholic Church?

This came up back in late January in the ‘Saint of the Day …’ thread.
We had this exchange:

**Reminder:
Christian Unity Week.
18 January to 25 January **
This is just to remind us that we are in the middle of Christian Unity Week. … during which Christians of varying denominations come together in prayer for the restoration of full unity among all Christian peoples of the world.
… Since the publication of the Decree on Ecumenism by Vatican II in the 1960s, all Catholics are encouraged to participate in this one unified observance of prayer on the part of all Christians of the world.
The goal: that “there will be one flock, one shepherd” (Jn 10:16b), because Jesus died in order “to gather into one body all scattered people of God” (Jn 11:52b).
Let us there remember to especially pray this week for the Christian Church to be truly one.

I’ve been having a problem with the way I am receiving the message about Christian unity. The only way that the ‘Christian Church’ can truly be one, from my perspective, is for all Christians to become Catholic.If I get the energy I might start a thread about this.

I feel the same way Reginator.
Let us hope that you get the energy and start the thread both here and at the Saints. It would be interesting to see what others say. What we catholics can do or not do to accommodate the others.

In response to this another member said:

Well, I see it somewhat differently from you guys. I am Catholic because I was born in a Catholic home. I have some cousins who are protestants because they were born in protestant homes. We have all grown up to believe that we are in the right denomination.

I believe Christian unity fulfills the oneness Jesus Christ was talking about. If my memory serves me right, John 3:16 states that: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him may not perish but have eternal life. " Christians fulfill this condition and belong to this one community of believers—it was in Antioch that these believers were first called Christians.

(That last post is from http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8868913&postcount=176. You can trace the exchange back from there if you are interested.)

Well I finally “got a round twit”.
We’d like to hear opinions from others, especially Catholics.
I think protestants could weigh in too and potentially produce different arguments using different premises.

Reginatingly yours, Reg.

 

[Peggy_in_Burien]

I think it would be wonderful if all Christians were to come to the Catholic Faith!

 

[Semper_Zelare]

Though dated, I stumbled upon this article today:
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250257/Methodist-church-prepared-existence.html

In 2010 the President of the Methodist Church said to the Anglican Church that he was willing for his denomination to become extinct. IE: to join the Anglican Church.

That just struck me. Often Protestants will mention things like this about their particular church, “well, my church could go away, it wouldn’t matter, as long as we serve Christ”.

To me it seems like a total cop-out of the Biblical basis that Jesus wanted all Christians to be united. Doesn’t it stand to reason that Christians were entirely united after Jesus came back? IE: a single Church? Well… if you’re willing to say your Church could fall by the wayside, I guess there goes any claim that it’s also the Church established by Christ.

Anyways, what’s more ironic about this is… while the Methodist Church might be wanting to be accepted into the Anglican Church. The Anglican Church may just beat them to joining the Catholic Church.

Which leads me to say: Let’s keep the Anglican Ordinariate in our prayers!!! There’s one in the U.S. now too!!

 

[SaintPatrick333]

The only answer would be if everyone came home to the Catholic Church. Christ Himself built this Church with His bare hands. No other Church in history has ever had or will ever have that claim. Christ promised to be with His Church for all time. The fact that Christ left a Church behind Him and not a book, shows the amount of love He has for His Church. He gave Peter all the powers of Heaven to bind and loose as was necessary. Christ protects our Apostolic Succession that we may continue to provide an unfiltered Truth in its fullest capacity. What the Church teaches today is what Christ Himself taught His Apostles and then passed down throughout the ages to todays Bishops and Priests, etc.

While I don’t think Protestants and Non Denominationalists would be condemned for not being part of the Catholic Church, especially if they, as most are, fall under the Invincible Ignorance clause so to speak. Very few I’d say, are aware of the Truth that is the Catholic Church and willfully reject it, thus rejecting Christ. In my opinion the vast majority of Protestants, at least from my personal experience, have an admirable love of Christ.

All this said, however, for there to be full Christian unity in the regards of what Sacred Scriptures speaks of then yes, all Christians everywhere would have to unite in Christ’s One Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church. As well as our brothers who reject the primacy of Peter. It’s a daunting task, especially when it’s so easy for pride to get in the way on both sides. Pride on some Catholics sides for looking down their noses at their protestant brothers, and pride on the protestants sides for siding with their man made church mostly (for many people) due to the fact that they were raised in that individual church or they like the pastor or something similar to that.

I for one am praying for all to return to the Catholic Church. That all of Christendom be reunited and restored to its former glory as Christ intended. The spread of secularization would be put in its tracks with Christendom united putting Christ first in all things. Interfaith dialogue is important. The more people who hear the Truth of the Catholic Church realize it for themselves, and come willingly and joyfully home to Christ. But there are others who shut down any chance at sharing faith or dialogue with them, thus shutting out Christ’s message. These are the brothers and sisters we must pray especially hard for. Someday it’ll happen. Most likely not in my lifetime, but I pray that it be soon God Bless everyone.

 

[sparrowhawk28]

I would like there to be more unity within the Church - and at the very least more discussion and ecumenism. I have a few Protestant friends, and even though we have our differences it’s quite easy and very enjoyable to speak to them about religious matters - at times even more so than it is to speak with my Catholic friends.

Even so (and perhaps this is pessimistic of me), I don’t see how Christian Churches can ever be reuinited. There is too much difference and antagonism around, and many people seem to just want to fight with one another rather than try to appreciate differences and work towards some kind of harmony and acceptance.

I pray for the Church, and I hope with all my heart that the message of Christ will guide and inspire all Christians towards forming loving, peaceful relationships with each other and with the world.

 

[odhiambo]

Should all Christians become Catholic?
Yes! yes! yes!
All Christians who abandoned the Church should come back home. They are like the “Prodigal Son”.
Sooner or later their eyes will open to the fact which is all too clear to us Catholics:
For fifteen hundred years we were all one. We all believed in the same things that Catholics continue to believe in. We have not changed. They have.

 

[pollycarp]

Just help me find Catholics who witness to Christ in their daily lives like Jeremy Lin (I’m just a sinner like every one else", or Tim Tebow. Troy Polamalu became Orthodox because he felt it would help him live his faith better. Don’t they know they’re wrong? I don’t know any Catholics who speak of God in their daily lives, and very few who read the bible. How are they in the right? My interest in reading scripture was piqued years ago by a Presbyterian minister on TV and a Presby friend, not the Catholic Church. I think God works with everyone where they are. In my humble unlearned opinion.

 

[may_they_be_one]

Christ promised to be with His Church for all time. The fact that Christ left a Church behind Him and not a book, shows the amount of love He has for His Church.

It might sound petty, but, referring to His Word so lightly as just a “book” seems harsh. His written Word is necessary for the Church to edify, correct, prove, establish doctrine…and it’s the way MOST new Christians today are evangelized-- being exposed to either hearing the preaching of the Word or the personal reading of it.

While I don’t think Protestants and Non Denominationalists would be condemned for not being part of the Catholic Church, especially if they, as most are, fall under the Invincible Ignorance clause so to speak. Very few I’d say, are aware of the Truth that is the Catholic Church and willfully reject it, thus rejecting Christ. In my opinion the vast majority of Protestants, at least from my personal experience, have an admirable love of Christ.

Thank you so much for acknowledging this! As a cradle-ignorant Catholic turned Charismatic-evangelical-born-again Catholic, my faith, morals, prayer life, desire to read the Word, understanding of the Kingdom, the power we have in the name of Jesus, etc, etc, etc all came through teaching and preaching done by non-denominational or Protestant Christians. (of course the theology, doctrine, awesomeness of the Mass, etc etc etc experienced in the RCC goes without saying here)

How awesome a Church we would have if all believers could experience the FULLNESS of the Faith experienced through Catholic and non-Catholic worship, teaching, evangelization, etc combined!!:extrahappy: This is the miracle we need to be praying for

It is so important to note that the vast majority of new conversions to Christianity are happening in Africa and Asia (especially India and China) through non-denominational missionaries. We’re talking about miracles upon miracles, public demonic exorcisms, persecutions of missionaries, zeal for preaching the Gospel, all happening as they did in the time of Acts. Check out the work by Gospel for Asia (gfa.org— I highly recommend reading Revolution in World Missions).

The vast majority of Catholics (at least American Catholics) seem to be missing the boat when it comes to knowing and living out our day-to-day faith in these amazing times… wars in 1 out of 5 countries, economic crashes, natural disasters, global communications… now is the time to be reaching the lost with the Gospel. Do most Catholics even believe that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation???

All this said, however, for there to be full Christian unity in the regards of what Sacred Scriptures speaks of then yes, all Christians everywhere would have to unite in Christ’s One Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church. As well as our brothers who reject the primacy of Peter. It’s a daunting task, especially when it’s so easy for pride to get in the way on both sides. Pride on some Catholics sides for looking down their noses at their protestant brothers, and pride on the protestants sides for siding with their man made church mostly (for many people) due to the fact that they were raised in that individual church or they like the pastor or something similar to that.

I for one am praying for all to return to the Catholic Church. That all of Christendom be reunited and restored to its former glory as Christ intended. The spread of secularization would be put in its tracks with Christendom united putting Christ first in all things. Interfaith dialogue is important. The more people who hear the Truth of the Catholic Church realize it for themselves, and come willingly and joyfully home to Christ. But there are others who shut down any chance at sharing faith or dialogue with them, thus shutting out Christ’s message. These are the brothers and sisters we must pray especially hard for. Someday it’ll happen. Most likely not in my lifetime, but I pray that it be soon God Bless everyone.

I think the big question is: Does world-wide unification of the Body of Christ (“so the world may know Jesus was sent by God” John 17:21) require the lengthy process of learning and understanding the fullness of faith expressed through the RCC? Or, does the simplicity of the Good News as preached by Paul take precedence?

 

[kelvinf]

A priest said that God created us to know him, love him and serve him in this world so as to be happy with him in the next.

Man was created in paradise, but after the fall, man was kicked out of paradise into this world. But because God loves us so much, he sent his only begotten son, so that anyone who believes in him may be able to enter the new paradise (John 3:16).

The Son of Man said that no one can get to the Father except through him. He calls us to “follow him” and to “learn from him”

After the death of Christ, the apostles preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ and all those who believed and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, were baptised. These believers were letter coined Christians.

We read from St. Paul’s first epistle to the people of Corinth that, some of these believers chosed to follow Apollos while others said they followed Paul. (1 Cor. 3:4)
These attitude seemed to reflect some lack of unity amongst the believers. Hence Paul made it clear that it wasn’t a matter of whether some said they “follow” Apollos, Paul or Cephas but rather that they all belong to Jesus Christ. (1 Cor. 3:22-23)

Going backwards to the Acts of the Apostles, we read of a sharp contention between Paul and Barnabas (Acts 15: 36-40). This led to a separation. Paul teamed up with Silias (and later with Timothy) while Barnabas paired with John Mark. They all were supposed to return together, however because of their difference, they went separate ways reminiscent of Abraham and Lot.

Did this divide interfer with the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ or did it lead to the Gospel reaching more areas?

Fast forwarding to today, we have Christians who “belong” to different Christian Churches. Do these Churches preach the same Gospel of Jesus Christ? Do they preach that He is our Lord and Saviour and that anyone who believers in him and keeps the commandment of love, will have eternal life? Do they follow and learn from Christ? Do they know God, love him, and serve him so as to be happy in the next world? Do they fight each other?

IMO, it seems like we Christians are united behind Jesus Christ.

 

[GraceDK]

Premising that Jesus divinely established one Church with Peter as Her earthly head (ie. the Catholic Church) and that He wants His Church to be united, wouldn’t it follow that in praying for Christian unity we should we be praying that all Christians come home to the Catholic Church?

.

Only the Holy Spirit can bring us all into unity.
The Catholic Christians are in need of great repentance and faith… so are all other Christians.
If we all become fully Christian, we will be ready for the gift of the Spirit, which Jesus promises in the New Testament: that all shall be one.

However it is written: Its Him who wills both to will and to act… so He will enable and bring about the unity… we will not be able to do it.

There was a time where I was living a much more godly and spiritual life than I am now. Back then I realised there are fantastic believers in all Christian Churches and there are apostates and lukewarm Christians in all of them too.
There are also pharisees everywhere, people who love teachings more than they love the brothers, people who love theology more than they love their brothers and who love to talk about high philosophy more than to serve and worship and love God and neighbour.
Paul warned us against too much talk…

When you love and seek Christ and meet people whose hearts are on fire with love for Him you feel and know that these are your true brethren. In most cases, no matter what they call themselves, you will humbly realise that they have gotten much further in holiness than you…

 

[GWright]

should we be praying that all Christians come home to the Catholic Church?

Yes, most certainly.

Jesus Christ prayed that his followers should “all be one”, so if it was good enough for him…

 

[The_Reginator]

How awesome a Church we would have if all believers could experience the FULLNESS of the Faith experienced through Catholic and non-Catholic worship, teaching, evangelization, etc combined!!:extrahappy: This is the miracle we need to be praying for

Non-Catholics cannot teach with any authority. That is why I became a Catholic. I realized that Christ established a teaching Church that could teach with the authority of the Holy Spirit. You cannot have teachings by Catholics and non-Catholics side by side. Protestants consider the bible to be more important than receiving Jesus in Holy Communion! THERE CAN NEVER BE ANY COMPROMISE ON CHURCH TEACHING.
Protestant worship ignores the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the traditions of the Church. Many protestant denominations certainly know how to evangelize. I would posit that Catholics should evangelize with the same fervour. We must target both non-Christians and non-Catholics.
The miracle to pray for is the end of schism and for our fallen away brethren to return home to the Catholic Church.

Do most Catholics even believe that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation???

Do most Catholics even follow the teachings of the Church on matters such as birth control? Do most Catholics believe in the Real Presence? I certainly hope so …
Catholics HAVE to believe that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation.

I think the big question is: Does world-wide unification of the Body of Christ (“so the world may know Jesus was sent by God” John 17:21) require the lengthy process of learning and understanding the fullness of faith expressed through the RCC? Or, does the simplicity of the Good News as preached by Paul take precedence?

The Body of Christ is His Bride, the Catholic Church. All one has to do is recognize the fact that the fullness of truth lies in the Catholic Church which God has given the deposit of Faith.
When I realized that I had to convert there were many issues I had trouble with. Once I recognized that I simply had to accept the teachings of the Church rather than agonize over them the process was simple. I spoke with a priest a few times and now I’m home.

 

[pollycarp]

I don’t know why denominations can’t be on a ladder or stairs leading upwards, with imo, the Catholic Church at the top rung. We have the benefits of the sacraments, priests. Others know scripture to shame us. We’re all trying to move up. Jacob saw a ladder. There are choirs even of angels. We’re all so different, as different as our DNA and fingerprints. Surely there are different ways to climb to the top for all believers in Jesus.

My fervor recently got a slight boost from attending wonderful Byzantine liturgies. Seeing others’ devotions helps me. Glory to Jesus Christ!

 

[ethereality]

I think “this another member” is clearly wrong, by definition of ‘unity’, and as a matter of reality, both current and historic. Think, for example, of the United States of America: We are separate states, but part of one country. For Christendom to exist as a unity, we would be members of different countries (or states), but be of one faith.

Studying history makes this point clear. Please read Christianity and European Culture by Christopher Dawson and see how Protestantism split Christendom, and consequently Europe became unraveled. Yes, unity of faith means the Protestants return to the Church that Jesus established: the Catholic (universal) Church. It is not some “invisible collection of believers” as Protestants like to think; it is an actual church. The reason they’ve even thought up this idea of “an invisible collection” is precisely because the Bible itself makes clear that there should be an earthly unity, and “something invisible” is the only thing they can turn to without turning to the Catholic Church.

Clearly, when we understand Jesus to literally give us His flesh and blood, and Protestants think it’s only a sentimental symbolic memorial, this is not unity. Likewise regarding Baptism, we understand that we receive the Holy Spirit and our sins are forgiven and we become adopted sons of God, while some Protestants think Baptism is simply a symbol of the reality that occurs “when we accept Jesus into our heart *”.

Of course, they don’t all have to become Latin Rite Catholic Christians; they could maintain their own forms of worship etc. and simply correct certain practices and doctrine. Personally, I think it ideal for us to come together for Mass, and then we could have our own “private devotions” later – i.e. those former low-church Protestants could meet in the movie theater and play their rock music and then deliver a lengthy sermon, as some currently like to do. That is, I think we could continue having our own Liturgy of the Word as we feel best serves us, and then all gather together for the Liturgy of the Eucharist (where we best serve God).*

 

[rhiannonh]

Premising that Jesus divinely established one Church with Peter as Her earthly head (ie. the Catholic Church) and that He wants His Church to be united, wouldn’t it follow that in praying for Christian unity we should we be praying that all Christians come home to the Catholic Church?

This came up back in late January in the ‘Saint of the Day …’ thread.
We had this exchange:

In response to this another member said:

(That last post is from http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8868913&postcount=176. You can trace the exchange back from there if you are interested.)

Well I finally “got a round twit”.
We’d like to hear opinions from others, especially Catholics.
I think protestants could weigh in too and potentially produce different arguments using different premises.

Reginatingly yours, Reg.

Its very sad:tissues:
that you don’t know what catholic actually means… look it up and then come back with a proper reply

 

[ethereality]

I think the big question is: Does world-wide unification of the Body of Christ (“so the world may know Jesus was sent by God” John 17:21) require the lengthy process of learning and understanding the fullness of faith expressed through the RCC? Or, does the simplicity of the Good News as preached by Paul take precedence?

A quick note: By “RCC” you seem to mean “Roman Catholic Church” – this is like calling the USA the “White United States”. It’s not the “Roman Catholic Church”, even though most of the people you know may follow the Roman rite, just as the USA is not called “the White United States”, even if most of the people you know may be White. It’s the USA. It’s the Catholic Church. ‘Roman Catholic’ Christians refer to Christians following the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church; it’s incorrect (and a bit offensive) to call it the ‘Roman Catholic’ Church.

That being said, I cannot comment on the current Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA) for people wishing to return to the Church; it seems there is much incompetency on the part of teachers based on what I hear from “Catholic Answers LIVE”. However, some catechesis is necessary: Jesus Christ becomes present on the altar. God Himself resides in the tabernacle. This is something profound and sacred, and we would be doing a grave disservice both to God and Man if we were not absolutely clear on this point prior to practice. Already I see people treat the Sanctuary of Catholic churches as if they were no different from the meeting place of Protestant churches – that is, they forget that God is physically in the room with them the moment Mass ends (e.g. they begin chatting with each other, rather than first exiting the Sanctuary).

Your question presents a false dichotomy, though. If anything, it’s both/and, not either/or, although you cannot call the mystery of salvation “simple”: God had to die? You think that’s something simple? It’s really no wonder the Mohammedans think Christians are nutty. (Their religion is the simple one: God is one person, not three; simply live a good life; none of this stuff about “the necessity of being born from above” (John 3), etc.)

Actually, I really don’t know what you mean by “the simplicity … as preached by Paul.” Paul’s pretty confusing, actually. St. Peter even comments on this in one of his letters in the New Testament, that some of Paul’s writings are difficult to understand which some (e.g. Protestants today?) twist to their own destruction: [BIBLEDRB]2 Peter 3:15-16[/BIBLEDRB] (Okay, maybe that translation’s a little hard to understand; this one says the same thing.)

 

[Holly3278]

Yes, definitely! All Christians should become Catholic, even the Orthodox! I hope and pray that someday Catholics and Orthodox will be reunited and that there will be an end to Protestantism because all Protestants will become Catholic. I also pray for an end to Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses and that they convert to Catholicism as well. May Catholicism one day experience a great revival!