Christian Unity

[paarsurrey]

Within mainstream Christianity, isn’t Jesus the unifying factor? Isn’t the fact, that almost all believe he died so our sins could be forgiven a unifying event or thing? Isn’t the fact, that mainstream Christianity believes in the Resurrection a unifying concept?

Hi

I think only a real Jesus, not a mythical one, could play as a unifying factor only, in my opinion. Myths can only create divisions and dissentions, in my opinion.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[ferdie]

Prayer, love, and sacrifice

The Holy Catholic Church pray for this unity everyday in every mass.
I pray the rosary that we may have one sheperd and one flock everyday except Sunday. I pray for christian unity.

 

[John1]

If all the groups that say they’re Christian got together and threw out every doctrine any of them disagrees with, we’d have:
There’s a God.
God is good.
And someday things will be better for at least some people.
I can’t think of any other shared doctrines.
But since Christianity means much more than that, we do need standards. The Church predates all these other groups and can point to historic backing for doctrines. The Church has the right to set the standards.

Actually the Christian Church predates the Catholic Church. When you read “The History of the Church” by Eusebius, it’s pretty clear that they refered to each other as Christians. In the Bible the followers of Christ were literally first called “Christians” at Antioch. St. Paul warns the early Christians in 1 Corinthians about being divisive with one saying I follow Paul, another saying I follow Peter, and another saying I follow Apollos. Paul says that they all follow Christ.

Paul also says that right now we don’t see things clearly, but when Jesus comes we will see perfectly. Maybe we will have to wait until Jesus gets here to have the Unity ferdie is alluding to. Until then how should we act towards one another as Christians?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

How can we achieve christian unity like that of the Father and the Son? Who or what do you think will be the unifying factor aside from our Lord Jesus Christ?

I think we have to first accept and respect each mans humanity first. Recognizing that we are all created equally no matter race, or demographics. One race or people are not superior to any other.

Once we come to understand our unity in our humanity. We can now unite in our efforts to live with one another. Man can not live on bread alone. So the Love from God that humanity desires, is what is needed and excercised to unite humanity, for God is love, and creation desires to Love. Humanity just needs love his neighbor as himself, and unity will begin.

Now when it comes to live in unity eternally. And whether or not man has a mortal or immortal soul. Requires faith supported by Evidence and eyewitnessed accounts of the supernatural to prove such an immortality exists.

This Jesus has done. Man cannot unite without God’s intervention less we destroy one another, Love is what conquers all.

 

[MDK]

Hi

May be in other words they seemed to say the Catholic Jesus was only mythical, not historical or real, in my opinion.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

As a Catholic, I adore and worship Jesus, as we are to give him latria, or the worship due to God alone. I honor Mary as the greatest of Saints with hyperdulia, or the special regard we give to her as the God-bearer, Ark of the New Covenant, Mother of God, (please don’t distort this to mean mother of the Trinity, or mother of Christ’s nature), and Queen of Heaven sitting at Christ the King’s right hand. She is our mother whom we honor, following Christ as He honored her and didn’t break the commandment regarding honoring your mother and father. The saints we honor with dulia, the special regard for those in great friendship with God.

Buddha and Krishna aren’t even on the radar screen… I detest the actions of Mohammad in his murders, rapes, pillaging, lying, deceit and being an anti-Christ. He earned the detest reserved for unrepentant grave sinners, and for false prophets.

God gave us one Lord, one King, one Savior, one Bread, one Body, one Church with Peter and his successors as head for visible sign of unity. We are in communion when we share the Body and Blood of Christ as He is made present to us in His Church. There is no unity outside of Christ and His Church worth talking about.

 

[MDK]

Actually the Christian Church predates the Catholic Church. When you read “The History of the Church” by Eusebius, it’s pretty clear that they refered to each other as Christians. In the Bible the followers of Christ were literally first called “Christians” at Antioch. St. Paul warns the early Christians in 1 Corinthians about being divisive with one saying I follow Paul, another saying I follow Peter, and another saying I follow Apollos. Paul says that they all follow Christ.

Paul also says that right now we don’t see things clearly, but when Jesus comes we will see perfectly. Maybe we will have to wait until Jesus gets here to have the Unity ferdie is alluding to. Until then how should we act towards one another as Christians?

By your logic, a baby changes into a new entity when he/she receives their name… Quite to the contrary, can’t we speak of a person named John at birth, yet discussing the same person John when he was in the womb before given a name…? Likewise, the Christian Church started at Pentecost is Catholic (from Greek for universal). The Church at Pentecost had Peter as its visible head. The same Church today has the successor of Peter as its visible head. The name Catholic for the Church started being used by around the year 100 at the latest. Adopting a name, such as Catholic doesn’t change the entity, does it?

Jesus is here in His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. Do you remember the two on the Emmaus road… we knew him in the breaking of bread. Luke 24: 30-31 *And it came to pass, whilst he was at table with them, he took bread, and blessed, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him: and he vanished out of their sight. * The Eucharist is Christ in His real and true presence among us. It’s the greatest of Sacraments and an incomparable gift that binds all of us as His Body. Your profile says catholic, and yet not Catholic… The fullness of revealed truth is believed and taught only in the Catholic Church. You will find it taught nowhere else on earth.

 

[thirdn6]

How can we achieve christian unity like that of the Father and the Son? Who or what do you think will be the unifying factor aside from our Lord Jesus Christ?

“1 All things have their season, and in their times all things pass under heaven.
2 A time to be born and a time to die. A time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted.
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal. A time to destroy, and a time to build.
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh. A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
5 A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather. A time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.
6 A time to get, and a time to lose. A time to keep, and a time to cast away.
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew. A time to keep silence, and a time to speak.
8 A time of love, and a time of hatred. A time of war, and a time of peace.” DRB Ecclesiastes Chapter 3

The world we live in is in a constant change… so also are ideas and peoples. How can we unite? How can Christians unite? One thing is sure- that we cannot unite on things unseen. But we can all agree that some things do not change, perceptively, in our lifetimes, e.g., the universe and its seemingly infinitisimal presence and order. We can unite on what we agree… on what we see- the tangibles. What is that tangible ‘matter’ that we as Christians can hold on to to unite us and keep us united? The answer is the Eucharist. From the beginning of Christianity until the return of our Lord Jesus Christ, His presence in the Eucharist will always be with us. It is Him in the Eucharist that united and unites all Catholics from generations to generations. Not in the NAME of our Lord Jesus can we attain that unity but rather through His precious Body and Blood- His sacrifice on the cross, now given to us as the most precious gift. Although we are many, we become ONE bread. As we become members of His Church, we become members of His body. And His body is not divided.
Also, as long as there are Christians there are persecutors. As long as there are converts there are those who fall away. Disunity will always be among people. Yet, as light of the world, the Catholic Church, can only proclaim the unity among her members visibly in the Holy Eucharist.

 

[ferdie]

“1 All things have their season, and in their times all things pass under heaven.
2 A time to be born and a time to die. A time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted.
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal. A time to destroy, and a time to build.
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh. A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
5 A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather. A time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.
6 A time to get, and a time to lose. A time to keep, and a time to cast away.
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew. A time to keep silence, and a time to speak.
8 A time of love, and a time of hatred. A time of war, and a time of peace.” DRB Ecclesiastes Chapter 3

The world we live in is in a constant change… so also are ideas and peoples. How can we unite? How can Christians unite? One thing is sure- that we cannot unite on things unseen. But we can all agree that some things do not change, perceptively, in our lifetimes, e.g., the universe and its seemingly infinitisimal presence and order. We can unite on what we agree… on what we see- the tangibles. What is that tangible ‘matter’ that we as Christians can hold on to to unite us and keep us united? The answer is the Eucharist. From the beginning of Christianity until the return of our Lord Jesus Christ, His presence in the Eucharist will always be with us.** It is Him in the Eucharist that united and unites all Catholics from generations to generations**. Not in the NAME of our Lord Jesus can we attain that unity but rather through His precious Body and Blood- His sacrifice on the cross, now given to us as the most precious gift. Although we are many, we become ONE bread. As we become members of His Church, we become members of His body. And His body is not divided.
Also, as long as there are Christians there are persecutors. As long as there are converts there are those who fall away. Disunity will always be among people. Yet, as light of the world, the Catholic Church, can only proclaim the unity among her members visibly in the Holy Eucharist.

I was thinking of the Eucharist as one of the uniting factor myself. If every christians can connect the dots together it will not be hard to achieve the unity that our Lord prayed for.

1. The prophesy of malachi
2. The manna in the desert
3. The lamb of God and the Passover
4. The meaning of Bethlehem
5. The meaning of the manger
6. The sacrfice of the mass
7. The sacrifice on the cross
8. The discourse in John 6
9. The importance of the body of Christ, His real flesh and blood
   10.The Revelation
   11.The writings of St. Paul regarding the eucharist
   12.The writngs of the early church fathers regarding the eucharist
10. The miracles of the eucharist

 

[John1]

By your logic, a baby changes into a new entity when he/she receives their name… Quite to the contrary, can’t we speak of a person named John at birth, yet discussing the same person John when he was in the womb before given a name…? Likewise, the Christian Church started at Pentecost is Catholic (from Greek for universal). The Church at Pentecost had Peter as its visible head. The same Church today has the successor of Peter as its visible head. The name Catholic for the Church started being used by around the year 100 at the latest. Adopting a name, such as Catholic doesn’t change the entity, does it?

Jesus is here in His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. Do you remember the two on the Emmaus road… we knew him in the breaking of bread. Luke 24: 30-31 *And it came to pass, whilst he was at table with them, he took bread, and blessed, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him: and he vanished out of their sight. * The Eucharist is Christ in His real and true presence among us. It’s the greatest of Sacraments and an incomparable gift that binds all of us as His Body. Your profile says catholic, and yet not Catholic… The fullness of revealed truth is believed and taught only in the Catholic Church. You will find it taught nowhere else on earth.

Hi MDK,

Personally I prefer being labled as a “Christian”. I suprised at how many seem to have a problem with that. As far as your comment that by my logic a baby changes identities when it’s named is absurd. I have no idea what your point was in making that statement, but let’s run with it nonetheless.

First, when Christ was establishing His Church he never used the term “Catholic Church”.

Second, the Bible says that the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch thus the “baby” that Jesus had established was named. No entity change, whatever that is supposed to mean. Since Peter and the other Apostles were there, and no one spoke up and said,"Hey we should call our group “Catholic”, I think that they felt comfortable with the name “Christian”. Usually when someone is born and they receive their name they don’t go about changing it unless they don’t like the name that they were given for some reason.

Third, St. Paul makes it absolutely clear in his first letter to the Corinthians when he warned the early Christians about dividing up and one saying “I follow Paul” while anther says “I follow Peter” and yet another says “I follow Apollos”. Paul reminds the early Christians that all the Apostles follow Christ and that the early Christians belong to Christ, not to an Apostle. Paul says “Christ has bee divided into groups!”, then he asks them "Was it Paul who died on the cross for you? Were you baptized as Paul’s disciples? Christ is the Head of the Church and Christians make up the body.

I believe that the different Catholic Churches are Christian Churches and I beleive that the Protestant Churches are Christian Churches as long as they believe that Jesus was the Only begotten Son of God, died for our sins on the cross, was resurrected, and is seated at the Right Hand of the Father, because this is what the Apostles taught. All Christians believe in Christ through the words of the Apostles in one way or the other. I think the biggest impediment to Christian unity is human pride.

 

[John1]

1 Corithians 6:17 “But he who joins himself tom the Lord becomes spiritually one with Him.”

 

[thirdn6]

I was thinking of the Eucharist as one of the uniting factor myself. If every christians can connect the dots together it will not be hard to achieve the unity that our Lord prayed for.

1. The prophesy of malachi
2. The manna in the desert
3. The lamb of God and the Passover
4. The meaning of Bethlehem
5. The meaning of the manger
6. The sacrfice of the mass
7. The sacrifice on the cross
8. The discourse in John 6
9. The importance of the body of Christ, His real flesh and blood
   10.The Revelation
   11.The writings of St. Paul regarding the eucharist
   12.The writngs of the early church fathers regarding the eucharist
10. The miracles of the eucharist

*"4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, `I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.

9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; 18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. 19 And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
23 Then if any one says to you, Lo, here is the Christ!' or There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 **For false Christs and false prophets will arise **and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Lo, I have told you beforehand.” *Matthew Chapter 24 RSV

Christians can not unite in Jesus’ NAME (alone) for many will come using His name (and it’s already is)! There will come ‘fake Christians’ as foretold. Just look around us…

The holy Eucharist, I suppose, again, is the answer because it is the ‘hub’ of our communion. It makes the body of Christ, the Catholic Church, unique, too.

 

[John7]

How can we achieve christian unity like that of the Father and the Son? Who or what do you think will be the unifying factor aside from our Lord Jesus Christ?

How will for example fundamentalist Baptists as a whole denomination (ie, not individual baptists converting here and there) ever put themselves under the authority of the Pope or come to say prayers and devotions to the immaculately conceived, ever sinless, perpetual virgin Mary, or put themselves under the teaching authority of the Magesterium? IMO…it ain’t gonna happen. I believe that there will be Catholics and Protestants until Jesus’ second coming. Great doctrinal divisions will, I believe, only then be resolved with Christ letting it be known which doctrines have been correct and which were false, bringing about unity. In short, yes Christian unity, but only at the second coming. (sounds pessimistic )

 

[MDK]

Hi MDK,

Personally I prefer being labled as a “Christian”. I suprised at how many seem to have a problem with that. As far as your comment that by my logic a baby changes identities when it’s named is absurd. I have no idea what your point was in making that statement, but let’s run with it nonetheless.

First, when Christ was establishing His Church he never used the term “Catholic Church”.

Second, the Bible says that the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch thus the “baby” that Jesus had established was named. No entity change, whatever that is supposed to mean. Since Peter and the other Apostles were there, and no one spoke up and said,"Hey we should call our group “Catholic”, I think that they felt comfortable with the name “Christian”. Usually when someone is born and they receive their name they don’t go about changing it unless they don’t like the name that they were given for some reason.

Third, St. Paul makes it absolutely clear in his first letter to the Corinthians when he warned the early Christians about dividing up and one saying “I follow Paul” while anther says “I follow Peter” and yet another says “I follow Apollos”. Paul reminds the early Christians that all the Apostles follow Christ and that the early Christians belong to Christ, not to an Apostle. Paul says “Christ has bee divided into groups!”, then he asks them "Was it Paul who died on the cross for you? Were you baptized as Paul’s disciples? Christ is the Head of the Church and Christians make up the body.

I believe that the different Catholic Churches are Christian Churches and I beleive that the Protestant Churches are Christian Churches as long as they believe that Jesus was the Only begotten Son of God, died for our sins on the cross, was resurrected, and is seated at the Right Hand of the Father, because this is what the Apostles taught. All Christians believe in Christ through the words of the Apostles in one way or the other. I think the biggest impediment to Christian unity is human pride.

John,
I agree you have no idea what I was saying. From what you’ve written, your lack of understanding appears to be due to lack of proper background in understanding what was established by Christ. I recommend you reread until you understand. It’s not meant to be difficult, but one must be open to the truth. You may be shocked by the truth, because the truth is different than what you have espoused.

First, you don’t understand the difference between what the members of the Church were called (Christians), and what the Church itself became called (Catholic). The term Catholic was simply meant to give meaning to the term Church as it is worldwide (just like the worldwide new covenant). It better explains the Church, and did not change a single thing. All “Christians” in “the Church” built by Christ remained Christians and now with a better, more descriptive name for the Church… “Catholic Church” for its worldwide nature. No other Christian Church even existed at that time. The early Church was not Protestant (read the Church Fathers), but taught the same truths the Catholic Church teaches today. Secondly, you don’t appear to understand that Catholics are the original Christians… the only Church that teaches the fullness of Christian revealed truth is the Catholic Church.

God does not normally provide names for children He creates with the help of the procreative process between man and women… he leaves it to the parents. Secondly, it does not matter that the Church is called “the Church,” “Catholic Church,” “Church with St Peter as Head,” etc. The substance is still the same. We could change the name today, and the substance would still be the same. I hope you understand this simple truth.

The Catholic Church upholds and defends all truth in the Scriptures. Apparently, you don’t understand how what Paul wrote applies to the Church. Do you understand that the Catholic Church didn’t divide from the early Church but is the same entity? There are some who have left the Church and started their own thing, mostly Protestant. However, the Church with Peter as visible head is still the same entity as it was at Pentecost… just more developed in terms of doctrine, and has more members.

A big problem with Christians is their inability to humbly accept what Christ established…, and they make their own brands of Christianity, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, thousands of Non-denoms, etc. Only the Catholic Church is the original, established and built by Christ… all others are man made. Protestants and others have divided Christianity and gone their own way with false teachings and heretical doctrines.

PS:
If you want to be called generic “Christian,” I recommend you change your profile to such instead of catholic. If you were fully Catholic, you’d be most fully Christian.

 

[MDK]

1 Corithians 6:17 “But he who joins himself tom the Lord becomes spiritually one with Him.”

How do we join with the Lord? Do you really understand what is being discussed?

1 Cor 6:17 - “But he who is joined to the Lord, is one spirit”

If you look at the previous sentence 1 Cor 6:16, Paul speaks about a man joining himself to a harlot, two in one flesh. Then following in 1 Cor 6:18, Paul is still speaking about fleshly union… fornication. The please also see 1 Cor 6:20 “For you are bought with a great price. Glorify and bear God in your body.” We must unite with Christ, and bear Christ in our bodies.

How do we join ourselves with Christ? The answer is in the Most Holy Eucharist. We take the fullness of revealed truth as a whole, working together. We must unite ourselves with the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist (for reference, Protestant churches can’t consecrate a host due to no valid priesthood). For another piece of the picture, please see John 6:54-55 “Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.”

The Eucharist is the source and summit of Christian life, and has been so from the beginning. The is why the Catholic Church puts such emphasis on the Eucharistic Christ, and calls this the greatest Sacrament.

 

[MDK]

First, when Christ was establishing His Church he never used the term “Catholic Church”.

The Scriptures don’t record Christ as using the word “Trinity” either. Do you believe in and accept the Trinity to describe the consubstantial relationship of the three Persons in one God, or do you have some problem with or reject that doctrine since Christ didn’t actually use Trinity as a descriptive word?

The one entity simply called “the Church” in Scriptures was later called the Catholic Church to better describe its worldwide nature. It was the same entity when it was called “the Church” as when descriptive term was added. The people who were members of the early Church were now in the same early Church which now had a more descriptive name.

If you simply changed your name to “Individual John1”, would you automatically be a different person all of a sudden, or would that just better describe you as an individual, and not multiple people or a group?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

How can we achieve christian unity like that of the Father and the Son? Who or what do you think will be the unifying factor aside from our Lord Jesus Christ?

**He is the unifying factor - leave Him out, & you get a wrong answer. **​

---

 

[ferdie]

Do you guys know if anyone already made a statistics of converts? What are the primary reasons why they converted to the Catholic Church?

 

[John1]

How do we join with the Lord? Do you really understand what is being discussed?

1 Cor 6:17 - “But he who is joined to the Lord, is one spirit”

If you look at the previous sentence 1 Cor 6:16, Paul speaks about a man joining himself to a harlot, two in one flesh. Then following in 1 Cor 6:18, Paul is still speaking about fleshly union… fornication. The please also see 1 Cor 6:20 “For you are bought with a great price. Glorify and bear God in your body.” We must unite with Christ, and bear Christ in our bodies.

How do we join ourselves with Christ? The answer is in the Most Holy Eucharist. We take the fullness of revealed truth as a whole, working together. We must unite ourselves with the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist (for reference, Protestant churches can’t consecrate a host due to no valid priesthood). For another piece of the picture, please see John 6:54-55 “Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.”

The Eucharist is the source and summit of Christian life, and has been so from the beginning. The is why the Catholic Church puts such emphasis on the Eucharistic Christ, and calls this the greatest Sacrament.

My profile is correct, I am a member of the Roman Catholic Church. I do understand that you think “Catholic” is a superior name to “Christian”. That is your opinion. If you want to separate your “label” from Christ, that is your choice. I understand completely what’s being discussed, but maybe I’m jumping ahead a little too fast for you in my posts, so I’ll slow down. Feel free to let me know if I’m still going over your head and I promise I will slow down for you even more, just come up with some more of your ridiculous accusations and I’ll know that your having trouble keeping up.

Now, may you and God forgive me for writing the insults above, I don’t want to trade insults. It was just an example of how your posts come across. Is that truly that way that you think Christians, or Catholics, should discuss things. You began and ended with personal attacks and insults. In 1 Corithians 12:13 Paul says that we have all been baptized into one body by the same Spirit, and we have alll been given one Spirit to drink.

 

[John1]

Do you guys know if anyone already made a statistics of converts? What are the primary reasons why they converted to the Catholic Church?

Bingo!

 

[John1]

How will for example fundamentalist Baptists as a whole denomination (ie, not individual baptists converting here and there) ever put themselves under the authority of the Pope or come to say prayers and devotions to the immaculately conceived, ever sinless, perpetual virgin Mary, or put themselves under the teaching authority of the Magesterium? IMO…it ain’t gonna happen. I believe that there will be Catholics and Protestants until Jesus’ second coming. Great doctrinal divisions will, I believe, only then be resolved with Christ letting it be known which doctrines have been correct and which were false, bringing about unity. In short, yes Christian unity, but only at the second coming. (sounds pessimistic )

Excellent post!