Christian Unity...

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2ndGen

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What’s your definition of Christian Unity?

Mine is the acceptance of all those who are Christians in our fellowship regardless of their doctrinal beliefs, church affiliations and/or religious backround.

Now, this doesn’t mean that we have to agree on everything nor that we have to accept one another’s teachings either.

Finally, freedom…in no way should anyone work to suffocate the opinions or beliefs of any other Christian (even if one disagrees with them).

Note:
ny one who espouses anti-Christian beliefs can definately
“not” be counted as a person who can unite with Christians
(for example: Christian exclusionists who think that Group A or Group B won’t get into heaven or Christian separatist groups, etc…)
 
True unity cannot be achieved outside of truth. There is only one truth. For me Christian unity means all conforming to His wishes - to His Church.
 
True unity cannot be achieved outside of truth. There is only one truth. For me Christian unity means all conforming to His wishes - to His Church.
“True unity…”

Well, when it was brought to Jesus’ attention about others who were working in His name that weren’t “with” His group, He told The Apostle who pointed this out to Him that he was to be left alone, that he was not to be forbidden from doing that work.

Do you think that Jesus would’ve denied this person?
 
“True unity…”

Well, when it was brought to Jesus’ attention about others who were working in His name that weren’t “with” His group, He told The Apostle who pointed this out to Him that he was to be left alone, that he was not to be forbidden from doing that work.

Do you think that Jesus would’ve denied this person?
Only if this person denied Jesus or His Church. “Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.” (Lk 10:16)
 
Only if this person denied Jesus or His Church. “Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.” (Lk 10:16)
Well, the person in question was definately professing Christ.

I ask because I believe that any person can be saved even if they are athiest according to Romans 2.
 
Well, the person in question was definately professing Christ.

I ask because I believe that any person can be saved even if they are athiest according to Romans 2.
God didn’t come down here and suffer ignominy on the cross only to have us follow and believe whatever we want, willy-nilly. He has a definite plan. The Bible makes it clear we must obey.

His Church does teach that any who do not fully know his teachings, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, have means to salvation outside the norm, so you are right in that respect. But, to what extent we are culpable for our pride or willfull stubbornness, we will only learn after graduation.
 
I think that on many points we are closer than we may think.

I also think that truth is important but the difficult part will be what truth it is essential to agree upon.

To use a trivial example, Jesus may or may not have had brown eyes. While some answer would be true, is it something essential that we know?

My opinion is that one of the biggest factors that has lead to division and continuing division is pride. We want to know everything and feel that we have a right to know everything. This leads us to speculation and once we reach a conclusion it is too easy to say that it is an essential truth.

Again as an example, we know that Jesus died to atone for our sins. Do we need to know more than this? I mean do we have to know if it is on the basis of penal substitution or satisfaction?

We all agree that faith is necessary. Is it really necessary to know why we believe? Does it matter if we believe in freewill, presdestination or some combination as long as we do believe that Jesus is the Son of God, died for us, rose again and brings us eternal life if we believe and repent? We know that we should do good works as the fruit of faith. Does it matter if we know whether these works merit anything as long as we do them out of love for God and our neighbour?
 
I think that on many points we are closer than we may think.

I also think that truth is important but the difficult part will be what truth it is essential to agree upon.

To use a trivial example, Jesus may or may not have had brown eyes. While some answer would be true, is it something essential that we know?

My opinion is that one of the biggest factors that has lead to division and continuing division is pride. We want to know everything and feel that we have a right to know everything. This leads us to speculation and once we reach a conclusion it is too easy to say that it is an essential truth.

Again as an example, we know that Jesus died to atone for our sins. Do we need to know more than this? I mean do we have to know if it is on the basis of penal substitution or satisfaction?

We all agree that faith is necessary. Is it really necessary to know why we believe? Does it matter if we believe in freewill, presdestination or some combination as long as we do believe that Jesus is the Son of God, died for us, rose again and brings us eternal life if we believe and repent? We know that we should do good works as the fruit of faith. Does it matter if we know whether these works merit anything as long as we do them out of love for God and our neighbour?
But, if Christ came to earth to give us His Church to guide us and we reject His Church, he makes it clear that we are also rejecting him.
 
God didn’t come down here and suffer ignominy on the cross only to have us follow and believe whatever we want, willy-nilly. He has a definite plan. The Bible makes it clear we must obey.

His Church does teach that any who do not fully know his teachings, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, have means to salvation outside the norm, so you are right in that respect. But, to what extent we are culpable for our pride or willfull stubbornness, we will only learn after graduation.
🙂

Can’t argue with that one bit.

👍
 
I think that on many points we are closer than we may think.

I also think that truth is important but the difficult part will be what truth it is essential to agree upon.

To use a trivial example, Jesus may or may not have had brown eyes. While some answer would be true, is it something essential that we know?

My opinion is that one of the biggest factors that has lead to division and continuing division is pride. We want to know everything and feel that we have a right to know everything. This leads us to speculation and once we reach a conclusion it is too easy to say that it is an essential truth.

Again as an example, we know that Jesus died to atone for our sins. Do we need to know more than this? I mean do we have to know if it is on the basis of penal substitution or satisfaction?

We all agree that faith is necessary. Is it really necessary to know why we believe? Does it matter if we believe in freewill, presdestination or some combination as long as we do believe that Jesus is the Son of God, died for us, rose again and brings us eternal life if we believe and repent? We know that we should do good works as the fruit of faith. Does it matter if we know whether these works merit anything as long as we do them out of love for God and our neighbour?
Some insist that we agree on everything in order for us to be closer. I think that that’s nonsense. I think that we could become extremely close (as I’ve experienced) without having to sacrifice our personal faith.

Some want to put unity over faith when it’s our faith that should be bringing us together.
 
I think that on many points we are closer than we may think.

We all agree that faith is necessary. Is it really necessary to know why we believe?
I cannot accept a religion that would require it’s adherents to be scholars by any stretch of imagination. Child like acceptance seems to be good enough for Christ, so it ought to be good enough for all of us.

People like to make things complex for a lot of reasons, none of them good, all of them selfish. Simplifying things is usually better because many more people can participate. Salvation is not a spectator sport, we are all players with equal stakes in the outcome. It also is not a contest.

That’s one reason I admire Baptist services, and I am not and never will be a Baptist. They are all inclusive and non-liturgical. Anyone who wants to hear the message of salvation and participate fully in the worship service is welcome, no questions asked. Actually most non-Catholic services are like that. No one is excluded. No hoops to jump through to get to salvation other than acceptance of Him as Savior.

Simple includes more people and the mission was to save mankind. Sounds like a plan to me.
 
Namesake,

Your post leads us to a great question…

What were Jesus’ requirements of us regarding unity?

I believe it was that we love each other as He and The Father loved each other which for us would mean in near perfection without personal judgement.

Never once did He mention sects or denominations when it came for the wish of His followers.

So, is “love” enough for us to be united?

Or do we have to meet certain criteria?

I submit that the only thing that is needed for us to be united as Christians faith-wise is love.

Religiously? Different story.
 
for me it is Agape ( God’s kind of love ) and becoming Christ like.

Ephesians 4:13
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

John 13:35
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
 
for me it is Agape ( God’s kind of love ) and becoming Christ like.

Ephesians 4:13
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

John 13:35
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
👍
 
What’s your definition of Christian Unity?

Mine is the acceptance of all those who are Christians in our fellowship regardless of their doctrinal beliefs, church affiliations and/or religious backround.

Now, this doesn’t mean that we have to agree on everything nor that we have to accept one another’s teachings either.

Finally, freedom…in no way should anyone work to suffocate the opinions or beliefs of any other Christian (even if one disagrees with them).

Christianity is a belief in Jesus Christ. There are many so called Christians with different beliefs in Jesus Christ. Where is the unity if one has a different view or his own view of who Jesus Christ is. The unity all christians unite in is not Jesus Christ but the love thats experienced in Christianity, this is where we can confuse tolerance (acceptance) with what St. Paul calls the "one Church, One Baptism, one Faith., (the Church is the body of Christ) What would the Martyrs of the Christian faith think. They went to there Martyrdom in the one belief in Jesus Christ, Who were they?Catholic? Unity is found in the Mystical body of Christ only, outside of the body of Christ no matter what tolerable name you call it, is not in the body of Christ.
 
2ndGen;3155275:
What’s your definition of Christian Unity?

Mine is the acceptance of all those who are Christians in our fellowship regardless of their doctrinal beliefs, church affiliations and/or religious backround.

Now, this doesn’t mean that we have to agree on everything nor that we have to accept one another’s teachings either.

Finally, freedom…in no way should anyone work to suffocate the opinions or beliefs of any other Christian (even if one disagrees with them).

Christianity is a belief in Jesus Christ. There are many so called Christians with different beliefs in Jesus Christ. Where is the unity if one has a different view or his own view of who Jesus Christ is. The unity all christians unite in is not Jesus Christ but the love thats experienced in Christianity, this is where we can confuse tolerance (acceptance) with what St. Paul calls the "one Church, One Baptism, one Faith., (the Church is the body of Christ) What would the Martyrs of the Christian faith think. They went to there Martyrdom in the one belief in Jesus Christ, Who were they?Catholic? Unity is found in the Mystical body of Christ only, outside of the body of Christ no matter what tolerable name you call it, is not in the body of Christ.
Once again, what did Jesus require of us in your opinion for unity?
 
I cannot accept a religion that would require it’s adherents to be scholars by any stretch of imagination. Child like acceptance seems to be good enough for Christ, so it ought to be good enough for all of us.

People like to make things complex for a lot of reasons, none of them good, all of them selfish. Simplifying things is usually better because many more people can participate. Salvation is not a spectator sport, we are all players with equal stakes in the outcome. It also is not a contest.

That’s one reason I admire Baptist services, and I am not and never will be a Baptist. They are all inclusive and non-liturgical. Anyone who wants to hear the message of salvation and participate fully in the worship service is welcome, no questions asked. Actually most non-Catholic services are like that. No one is excluded. No hoops to jump through to get to salvation other than acceptance of Him as Savior.

Simple includes more people and the mission was to save mankind. Sounds like a plan to me.
Our ‘problem’ is human intellect. Wisdom and Sirach tell us that knowledge / reason / intellect are Divine gifts. However, when compounded with ‘freewill’ we find intellect can posit and espouse that ‘there is no God!’ and everything appeared out of ‘nothingness’ without Divine intervention or necessity. They even use the same evidence we laud as God made, to support the position that God does not exist.

Faith in God is not BLIND FAITH! It can be explained in details as intricate as those posed by the non-believing intellect. The ‘final’ revelation of God’s existence, to accompany the incidences in the Old Testament is He, Himself, walking among men. Yet we find that ‘faith’ is still required for humans to bridge the gap between the evidence and God. This means the ‘freewill’ still needs to be exercised to choose God over all else.

The ‘test’ of a KNOWLEDGE is not the amount of hoops it can jump through or stand up to scholastic examination, but that it CAN OVERCOME them all.

In matters of Divine knowledge (revelation) ONLY The Catholic Church, as a faith, can withstand and answer all enquiries from human intellect, for IT, ALONE, was given Divine commencement and protection.

For Christians, as Our Lord states, “… if they are not against us, they are with us” suggest that anyone who believes He is The Son of God, salvation is in His Holy Hands, BUT DOES NOT MEAN, ASSURANCE! This is exclusive to ‘Christians’ since the “strangers” were casting out demons in His Name!

One can believe in Christ / God and be ignorant of The Catholic Church. The Church understands this and professes that matters are in God’s Hands. But for all who are aware of The Catholic Church and choose to remain outside Her because they disagree, require examinations and study to understand why She professes that “those outside The Catholic Church (not community) cannot be saved.”

It is perfect sense because Our Lord was not ‘willy nilly’ about His assertions when He walked this Earth. He was quite succinct regarding certain things even though it made enemies amongst other ‘beliefs’ and authoritive bodies.

:cool:
 
Gabriel of 12;3155877:
Once again, what did Jesus require of us in your opinion for unity?
What’s your definition of Christian unity? is what I recall the question to be. I find a great wall between by definition and Jesus’s requirement for Christian unity. Forgive my lack of understanding. Christian unity can only be found in the body of Christ, but it can only begin by die-ing to self the famous i, and live in Love, Mercy, Forgiveness, Repentance, Although, Jesus Requires to be in union with him (communion) in his body, obey God’s Word and live a sacramental life. To live is Christ, to die is gain. Heres where Christian unity begins in my opinion, To die to onself, and allow Christ to live through you. Remember Jesus came to cause division, between self and God. This is the violence that takes place. Christian unity is found not only in joy and peace, but in pain and suffering. Your question is profound and deserves much more enlightenment. My reflection on this topic has much more to disclose, I will conclude here, and hope for more discussion.

Peace be with you.
 
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