Christian: Where art thou?

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Christian: Where art thou?
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou?

Notice that God is the one that is calling?

Why are we hiding that God should call?

Is it because we discovered ourselves naked: That we must use the things of the world to cover us up: To cover shame: For being less than perfect?

Spiritually speaking now, if we discovered that God could make us pure, clean and perfect in His Son, would we need to hide any more with these worlds coverings? As like Adam covering with the fig leaves?

In order to find God when He calls us, we must first let Him work to strip us from our earthly coverings.
Notice the six in number in the fllowing verses? The number of a man?
Pro 6:16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
These six we poses as fleshly creatures as is our covering of shame.
Coverings: What do they consist of? Pro: 6:16 thru 6:19
  1. A proud look
  2. A lying tongue
  3. Hands that shed innocent blood
  4. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations
  5. feet that be swift in running to mischief,
  6. A False Witness, speaks lies ,sows discord
The 7th one is of all the six an abomination to “HIM”

Jesus, is “Him” who takes away the shame (the six) by becoming it and nailing it to the cross and resting on the 7th day from is work.

Where are you Christian, who has told you were naked?

Receive the covering of Jesus, His white robe, repent (Change your mind) and live in your new robe of righteousness, the righteousness’ of Jesus Christ.

Once you receive it, work out all six of those things God hates.

Your thoughts.

Peace>>>AJ
 
Correct, to the degree that you do not cover yourself with the presumption of being righteous before God, that only God may judge.
 
M0nkey said:
Correct, to the degree that you do not cover yourself with the presumption of being righteous before God, that only God may judge.
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Presumption same as reckoning?

Was Jesus a substitute for our sins?

Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

By the same reasoning, we are reckoned, presumed righteous in the blood of Jesus.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Jewish genealogy reckoned them as the birthright, inheritors, but Jesus cut them off, and granted the birthright (reckoned) to the Gentiles, or the uncircumcised lot.

One reckon can not be different than the other reckon, or else one of them is a false one.

When we discover our nakedness, we see shame, and same brings us to look to God for forgiveness, and God in Jesus gives us a robe of righteousness, His righteousness when we give God our hearts and our dead spirits are made alive forever more.

Notice that all that happens in the spiritual realm and is manifested in the flesh.

Peace>>>AJ
 
“Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned TO HIM as righteousness.”

For it was not Abraham who presumed to be righteous but God who reckoned. Yes, it is Jesus Christ who sanctifies by His blood, but only He can reckon. Only, ensure that you do not create a vestment for yourself with the work of human imagination, but only in the righteousness of God who saves.
 
M0nkey said:
“Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned TO HIM as righteousness.”

For it was not Abraham who presumed to be righteous but God who reckoned. Yes, it is Jesus Christ who sanctifies by His blood, but only He can reckon. Only, ensure that you do not create a vestment for yourself with the work of human imagination, but only in the righteousness of God who saves.
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Likewise, Jesus reckons to me salvation upon my acceptance of His love.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Conditional upon confession and past tense as saved.

The process of salvation starts at birth, a rebirth as Sons of God and not of man.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The white robes is the righteousness of God in Christ at our rebirth.

Therefore, I may boldly approach the throne of grace with great assurance.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Peace>>>AJ
 
look3467 said:
The process of salvation starts at birth, a rebirth as Sons of God and not of man.
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That is precisely right, the process of salvation STARTS with baptism, but it is not complete. We are ultimately justified when we enter into the heavenly Jerusalem.
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look3467:
Therefore, I may boldly approach the throne of grace with great assurance.
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It is written: “On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’”

Brother look3467, I think one can have confidence in one’s salvation in Jesus Christ, but in no way can you presuppose for yourself that you have been saved. That kind of eternal security can only lead to a shallow and superficial faith and will lead you towards ‘cheap grace.’

Please, pray about it, read about it that you may come to the fullness of Truth. May the Lord be with you.
 
That is precisely right, the process of salvation STARTS with baptism, but it is not complete. We are ultimately justified when we enter into the heavenly Jerusalem.>>>M0nkey
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Ultimately justified?
Where does rebirth factor in? At the end?

The first birth brought the physical and separation=death.
The second birth is spiritual and brings life.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The wages of the first birth is death, the second birth wages have been paid for resulting in life at the moment of conception.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The rebirth is instantly, of incorruptible seed, by the word of God (In this case, Jesus, the logos) as foretold, executed and established by the written word as truth.

The new birth establishes us as citizens first of His kingdom, or as you put it, heavenly Jerusalem.

Change, repentance has to be in the heart, or a circumcision of the heart, exposing the true nature of God when the dross, the clouds of sin, are cut away.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Phi 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor circumcision, but a new creature.

We do not evolve into a new creature, but we are born into a new creature.

After we are saved, new creature, then we begin our spiritual growth by our walk.

Peace>>>AJ
 
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look3467:
Ultimately justified? Where does rebirth factor in? At the end?
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No, we bear the indelible mark of baptism in which we have been reborn as a new creature. For it is written: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!” This means to be faithful to your baptismal calling and live out the faith as a living sacrifice to God. Again, it is written: “I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.”

What it basically comes down to is to stay in a state of grace, and ask God to grant you perseverance. Sin is an ugly thing, remember the bloodied and battered Jesus suffering on the cross; it detriments and may even sever your relationship with God. Mortal sin is a reality and it closes your door to God, but God in his love reopens the door of reconciliation so that you may confess your sins. For it says: “There is sin which is mortal.”
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look3467:
We do not evolve into a new creature, but we are born into a new creature.
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We do not evolve. We walk in the way of faith, hope, truth and love. That is to say, I have faith and hope that Jesus, the word incarnate can save me, that he can heal me. This is not a head knowledge but simply a walk in faith, it is entrusting your whole self to the mystery of love, that love in faith may be fully revealed as the sons of God, the redemption of our bodies.

I write these things not to argue or to prove a point, I am merely presenting the Way in it’s fullness, so that you may understand.
 
It’s hard for me to understand why these folks come to “farm” at a Catholic website. Do they TRULY BELIEVE they can find converts here? Why? That’s just silly! Why would ANYONE in their RIGHT MIND leave the church founded, not by some MAN, but by JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF!

This is the bottom line ~ I will actually SAVE some of you who come here to spend some time and effort ~ don’t waste your missionary time here. It’s a lost cause. The Catholics here are seriously Catholic, not “tepid” Catholic. Show up here and they will want to convert YOU back to the one true faith which is, today, known as the Catholic faith. This is NOT to place to farm for converts! It is SO NOT that place!

Lots of people may have deceived you. You may have even been told, even in total ignorance, that Catholics are not Christian, or are Pagans, or many other silly things. These things are, at best, ignorant. When you finally learn the truth, go back to the person who told you that and tell them how retarded that statement was!

No converts here! Get over it! We’re ALREADY the first Christians! Move On!
 
Hi, MelanieAnne

I am not farming as you think, but only presenting a different view of which is foreign to what is.

I also do not want anybody to leave their espoused religious beliefs, but rather to expand on some interesting points about certain issues which causes divisions where there should be unity.

The OP is trying to make the point of the spiritual condition which has been addressed by Christ rather than the physical practices.

Case in point. is the eating of the fruit of the tree.
Caused Adam to see himself as naked.

Two conditions here, a physical discovery and a spiritual discovery.

The spiritual discovery is what brought alienation to the soul and one which God corrected by Jesus requiring a rebirth of the alienated dead spirit.

The rebirth process is instantaneous in that it is the conversion of the heart by God’s spirit entering the heart and granting life.

If you and I understand the rebirth process, we shall know we are brothers and sisters in Christ first, for we are of the same family of believers, making up the church of Christ.

Then we are in unity of Spirit, regardless of which church we belong to.

The stripping away of the sin covering over the heart is a spiritual circumcision, which is the conversion from death to life solely done by Jesus Himself via His Holy Spirit in us.

All the rest of the issues are debatable as far as preference of worship is concerned.

The body (Physical body)is made up of many members which are part of the whole body, which all function to aid the body in it’s well being.
The rogue parts that falter by reason of injuries or deceases, are either worked on for healing, or cut off completely from the body.

The spiritual side of that is the same, that all parts work together for the common good of the body of believers, united by the power of God’s love in each individual us–parts.

If we are narrow minded we shall not see the other member parts as part of the same body, but rather condemn them for not being “as we are” attitude.

Hence: if we don’t love our brother or sister we don’t love the body, which is Christ, and don’t love the Father either which is the 1st Commandment.

So, don’t be easily offended by what another part of the body’s views are, for if it is practicing the love of God, then it is in harmony with the body as a whole.

Besides, this section of your forum is for non-Catholic discussions of which should be opened for exploration of the possibility of both sides finding a common ground.

Not to convert, but to unite on a common ground which can only be love.

Peace>>>AJ
 
M0nkey said:
That is precisely right, the process of salvation STARTS with baptism, but it is not complete. We are ultimately justified when we enter into the heavenly Jerusalem.

It is written: “On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’”

Brother look3467, I think one can have confidence in one’s salvation in Jesus Christ, but in no way can you presuppose for yourself that you have been saved. That kind of eternal security can only lead to a shallow and superficial faith and will lead you towards ‘cheap grace.’

Please, pray about it, read about it that you may come to the fullness of Truth. May the Lord be with you.
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No, Monkey, you ignore all the NT passages where believers are told they have been saved. Period. John said, “These things have I wirtten unto you that you may KNOW (not hope) that you have eternal life.” I know I have it. I deserve hell. But I will spend eternity in heaven, and I know it, and so do millons of humble, grateful, knowledgeable Christians.

Once you understand what happened at the cross, you can know that too, if you believe. But the more I talk to Roman Catholics, the more I realize they do not understand what happened at the cross. They are much closer to the people who were leading the Galatians astray. You might want to check what Paul pronounced on those folks.

The person who has been saved, who has experienced true salvation, has seen what Jesus meant when He said “Tetelestai”–“It is finished!” That person has believed on Christ in light of that truth and has been saved. They’ve been born again. RCC’s don’t even like it when Jesus and Paul utter such terms! It messes up their dogma and makes them have to dance around to try and prove what they didn’t mean when they uttered them. It is not a pretty dance. It is a dance of death.
 
I think you clearly ignore the message of the gospel: “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

By deciding for yourself to be righteous before God, only you know on which side you stand. Remember the Pharisees? Theirs was a theology much like this, did Jesus call them out? Of course not!
 
M0nkey said:
I think you clearly ignore the message of the gospel: “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

By deciding for yourself to be righteous before God, only you know on which side you stand. Remember the Pharisees? Theirs was a theology much like this, did Jesus call them out? Of course not!
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That is false humility. Let’s see again what GOD says about it:
“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.”-I John 5:13

No one is deciding for themselves anything other than what God invites them to. You and others like you are guilty of the root of all sins–Unbelief.

And again…

The more I talk to Roman Catholics, the more I realize they do not understand what happened at the cross. They are much closer to the people who were leading the Galatians astray. You might want to check what Paul pronounced on those folks.

The person who has been saved, who has experienced true salvation, has seen what Jesus meant when He said “Tetelestai”–“It is finished!” That person has believed on Christ in light of that truth and has been saved. They’ve been born again. RCC’s don’t even like it when Jesus and Paul utter such terms! It messes up their dogma and makes them have to dance around to try and prove what they didn’t mean when they uttered them. It is not a pretty dance. It is a dance of death.

And let me say this again:
 
AJ ~ I’m sure you’re very sincere. I have read your posts here & elsewhere. I regret the harshness I directed towards you. It wasn’t meant to really be directed towards you. It was frustration at so many others that post to this forum.

Not everyone meets your definition of why they are here. Many are here to tell the Catholics how wrong they are and to “farm” the forum as I have described. That you may not be one of those does not change the fact that many DO meet that definition. I shouldn’t have lumped you in with those who do.

Many non-Catholic Christians hang their entire belief on scripture. Sacred tradition has no meaning for them. Apostolic succession and the authority of a priesthood ordained by Jesus Himself has no meaning for them. Indeed, they deny it. They ignore, either mostly or entirely, the ordinances commanded by Jesus. They also conveniently ignore that there is any shred of connection between their faith and the Catholic faith even though, if they were honest, they would have to admit that the origins of their own faith lie within the Catholic Church even if those roots are several centuries removed from today.

One of the more ironic aspects of all of this is the reliance on the Bible and “Sola Scriptura”. The Bible was put together by Catholics. Yes, some books were thrown out during the Reformation by Protestants who found things in them that did not comport with their new paradigm, but for the most part the Bible that Protestants use today, regardless of the translation, has its roots in the Catholic Church. Yet many of the people who rely on these scriptures call Catholics “Pagans”, or say we are not “Christian” and some of the other silly things that my previous post noted. (It’s hard to find the “love” there. 😉 ) But perhaps more pertinent to the question is ~ why would anyone rely on scriptures put together by persons you believe are Pagan/not Christian/etc.? Yet so many persons that call themselves Christian do just that. And if something is not found explicitly in those scriptures, they reject it.

I heard a snatch of news over the weekend and it got me to thinking. The subject was the upcoming Presidential Inauguration. There is almost nothing about the Inauguration in the Constitution. If I remember the news report correctly, the Constitution does specify the oath of office ~ to which all Presidents have always added “so help me God” (but that last phrase is not in the Constitution) and the ceremony is supposed to take place at noon. Almost all of the rest of the actual inaugural ceremony is “tradition” ~ taking the oath with one hand on the Bible (no matter who it once belonged to) is tradition, it’s not in the Constitution. Most Presidents have had some government person hold the Bible while they take the oath, but Lyndon Johnson changed it to have his wife hold it and since then the First Lady has held the Bible while her husband took the oath.

What is the point of this? For over 200 years we have inaugurated Presidents and the bulk of the ceremony has been tradition, handed down over time, not explicitly specified in the Constitution. Sure, small changes have been made here and there, but for the most part the inaugurations have been carried out the same way since the first one.

It reminds me of how, in the Catholic Church, sacred tradition complements scripture. The early church did not have the Bible we have today ~ no matter which version you choose ~ but they had the Apostles and their disciples. Tradition was handed down and eventually the Bible was put together, but not before many years had passed. Protestants throw out all of that sacred tradition as unscriptural. Their loss.

If you watch the inauguration tomorrow, after its over, sit back and think about how much you would have missed if ALL that it had consisted of was the new President taking the oath (minus “so help me God”) with his hand up but the other one NOT on a Bible and that is IT. It would be very spare, wouldn’t it? But all the rest is “tradition”.

The analogy, obviously, is not perfect, but Sacred Tradition, handed down from the earliest Christians, is ignored/denied by most that call themselves Christian. How very sad.
 
MelanieAnne,

Thank you for being more understanding!
I really appreciate an attitude of love over all other considerations.

Then and only then can we have an honest and sincere discussion of our differences.

Yes, I agree with tradition as you are pointing out.

You understand why?

Take a child who not quite mature in the things of the world, and use standards, rules and or traditions to help develope the child’s character and when the child has matured, the child will no think as a child but as a mature independent person.

A spiritually mature individual no longer is under those conditions but is free to worship God in any way shape or form they choose.

Likewise, the scriptures give us the necessary instructions to become spiritual free from structured traditions and or practices and become independently dependent on Christ alone.

This way, there can be no walls of discrimination to contend with, allowing the spirit of love to prosper in unity.

Paul said: 1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

This is my current attitude.

Peace>>>AJ
 
look3467 said:
MelanieAnne,

Thank you for being more understanding!
I really appreciate an attitude of love over all other considerations.

Then and only then can we have an honest and sincere discussion of our differences.

Yes, I agree with tradition as you are pointing out.

You understand why?

Take a child who not quite mature in the things of the world, and use standards, rules and or traditions to help develope the child’s character and when the child has matured, the child will no think as a child but as a mature independent person.

A spiritually mature individual no longer is under those conditions but is free to worship God in any way shape or form they choose.

Likewise, the scriptures give us the necessary instructions to become spiritual free from structured traditions and or practices and become independently dependent on Christ alone.

This way, there can be no walls of discrimination to contend with, allowing the spirit of love to prosper in unity.

Paul said: 1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

This is my current attitude.

Peace>>>AJ
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Well, AJ, I’m glad you like that, but I’m not sure we agree. 🙂
 
nbtb1348 said:
“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.”-I John 5:13
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I don’t think it’s wise to be cherry picking scripture. Please read John in it’s full literal context: “And this is the CONFIDENCE which we have in him,” “for this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments.” And again, “He who does not love does not know God; for God is love.”
 
This seems to be turning into a discussion of “once saved, always saved.”

Look3467, as the original poster, was that your intention? If so, I will respond. If not, I won’t hijack the thread.

What were you wanting to discuss?

God bless us all,

Ruthie
 
Ruthie said:
This seems to be turning into a discussion of “once saved, always saved.”

Look3467, as the original poster, was that your intention? If so, I will respond. If not, I won’t hijack the thread.

What were you wanting to discuss?

God bless us all,

Ruthie
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Well Ruthie, it seems that many of us may not be on the same page, which motivates us to navigate to it with what understanding we have.

Which in my opinion am happy to entertain.

My Op will take us to the once saved always saved because it was God who placed the symbolic tree of good and evil knowing full well the consequences of it.

He also knew to deliver us from those consequences as well.

But really, how can any one know of it, unless someone tells us, and when we do find out, we find ourselves naked, or in other words, short of the glory of God.

There is no such thing as hi-jacking my thread, for I am open to entertain any subject question you might have.

Go for it.

Peace>>>AJ
 
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