Christian Women Told To Recant Faith By Iran Court: They Refuse
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Califman831
Guest
also from our lord
And Jesus came into the quarters of Cesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is?
But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets. Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [St. Mathew 16:13-19]
notice specifically that he uses the word CHURCH, singular, not churches plural. Answer me this was every pope from the time of trent up till Vatican II wrong when they held the belief that there is only one church for the salvation of the soul? Were the saints wrong not to bend to the heretical ways of martin lucifer? I don’t know these women but they are in my prayers that they may have salvation through Christ and his holy church.
And Jesus came into the quarters of Cesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is?
But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets. Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [St. Mathew 16:13-19]
notice specifically that he uses the word CHURCH, singular, not churches plural. Answer me this was every pope from the time of trent up till Vatican II wrong when they held the belief that there is only one church for the salvation of the soul? Were the saints wrong not to bend to the heretical ways of martin lucifer? I don’t know these women but they are in my prayers that they may have salvation through Christ and his holy church.
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Montalo
Guest
Lets step back for a moment and realize that both of us are members of His Church
no, they were not wrong on both counts
But, and feel free to point me towards CCC canon law or similar, do they not also have a partial understanding of Christ, and some may be saved through the Church
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Holly3278
Guest
He will when He comes again. So better become Catholic and get ready.May the LORD God Almighty eradicate this evil called Islam in our world, in Jesus’ name! Amen!
Islam is a Judeo-Christian heresy. A corruption of the Bible and of Jewish history.
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Califman831
Guest
A partial understanding of scripture is not good enough if it used to spread evil as in the case of the temptation of Christ. The Devil quoted scripture but lacked obedience and love of God. Claiming that there is any other church than the one created by christ as stated in Mathew 16 is a lie. Anyone may be saved if they renounce their sins and chooses to join the body of Christ which is the roman catholic church. This is why we must show love and compassion towards heretics. As workers in the vineyard we must bring them back into the flock. Only the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth, the four marks of the true church. Would you rather give your brother fine vintage wine or bargain basement grape juice? Would you give him the Catholic Church or protestantism?
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imasinner
Guest
It is not for you to decide whom God will save whether they be baptised correctly or not. We as Catholics have more of a responsibility to show and spread His love to our fellow man/woman BECAUSE we have the Truth. Nitpicking about whether these two persecuted woman are authentic Christians or not show you have not the love that your faith and God demands of you as a Catholic.
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tchtax
Guest
I agree !!
Following all the rules and regulations ain;t gonna please God if we don;t have the love and compassion for our fellow man…irregardless of faith. Vatican II has stated that it IS POSSIBLE that every soul can be saved through God’s divine grace and mercy.
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Bengoshi
Guest
As an Evangelical Christian I also find this exclusivist talk offensive and unChristian! It goes against the teachings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (Rom. 10:9-10; Eph. 2:8-9; Mark 9:38-41). Saying these things makes you just like one of the self-righteous pharisees that Jesus despised. I have also read Catholic encyclicals and may I direct you to Pope Benedict XVI’s Dominus Iesus and On Justification by Faith.
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Bengoshi
Guest
I agree!
Obviously, Califman is an intolerant, narrow-minded bigot who does not have the love of Christ in him. Instead of truly appreciating what these women are doing for the faith, he persecutes and judges them for not being ROMAN Catholic!
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Califman831
Guest
How long has this teaching of imperfect communion been taught? What was the position of the vatican on the EO before the 1900’s?
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Califman831
Guest
What greater love is there than to pass the authentic faith to my sisters in Christ, especially in a nation ruled by those that serve satan and his prophet Muhammad?
I direct you the Nicene Creed, repent and join the true church.
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
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Bengoshi
Guest
We do adhere to both the Nicene and Apostle’s creeds for your information. “Catholic” means universal, in such a way that all those who believe and have faith (put their trust) in Jesus Christ have already been engrafted to His body, the Church. Do not ignore what Jesus in the Bible teaches as quoted by the posters herein, both Catholic and Protestant. Also, I have already repented from my sins and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior.
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KingTheoden
Guest
Couple obvservations.
If a person converts from some religion or no religion to belief in Jesus Christ and the Trinity, but adopts an incomplete or slightly wrong understanding, particularly in circumstances where the only way to do so was through incomplete teaching, that person would not be faulted. That is my understanding.
Context is really important - these women apparently are coming towards Christ, not moving away like someone leaving the Catholic Church for Protestantism.
Now, a subject not brought up yet… Do we have a slightly better source? No major news outlet is reporting this and the only story on the internet comes from Evangelical sources that are distorting the news in other countries. For example, one site is implying that the Vietnamese government is only coming down on some (very obscure) Evangelical group - with absolutely no mention of the violence against Catholics.
Remember also there is a tug of war between US/UK/Israeli governments and Iran. In order to get a war started, it is pretty text book to claim an opponent kidnapped someone or is doing something most would detest. The CIA has done far, far worse. In fact, the US government lied its way into attacking Spain by claiming it sunk the USS Maine. Scholars universally reject that today. That does not mean spy games are not still used for political purposes.
Got to think there is an AP/UPI article on this somewhere.
If a person converts from some religion or no religion to belief in Jesus Christ and the Trinity, but adopts an incomplete or slightly wrong understanding, particularly in circumstances where the only way to do so was through incomplete teaching, that person would not be faulted. That is my understanding.
Context is really important - these women apparently are coming towards Christ, not moving away like someone leaving the Catholic Church for Protestantism.
Now, a subject not brought up yet… Do we have a slightly better source? No major news outlet is reporting this and the only story on the internet comes from Evangelical sources that are distorting the news in other countries. For example, one site is implying that the Vietnamese government is only coming down on some (very obscure) Evangelical group - with absolutely no mention of the violence against Catholics.
Remember also there is a tug of war between US/UK/Israeli governments and Iran. In order to get a war started, it is pretty text book to claim an opponent kidnapped someone or is doing something most would detest. The CIA has done far, far worse. In fact, the US government lied its way into attacking Spain by claiming it sunk the USS Maine. Scholars universally reject that today. That does not mean spy games are not still used for political purposes.
Got to think there is an AP/UPI article on this somewhere.
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tchtax
Guest
I’m sorry, Bengoshi, I strongly disagree with this name calling and accusing a fellow Christian a bigot and that he does not have the love of Christ in him. We can’t use statements with accusations. No need for this. We may differ in our views about the Church and these two ladies …but this topic has blown off to Christians against Christians. The guys on the dark side are probably clapping their hands over this.I agree!
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Bengoshi
Guest
Ok. I apologize. I just got so irritated with how he excludes non-Catholic (Roman) from salvation. He even goes to the extent of excluding the Eastern Orthodox Churches, which are also definitely Catholic. I even thought that such thinking has already gone from our minds. As an Evangelical, I would never say that Catholics are not and cannot be saved, for indeed, there are truly born-again Catholics. Even our fellowship teaches that.
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Califman831
Guest
the Catechism of Trent excludes noncatholics, with the exception of salvation by desire. Trent is available online to read. I even posted a link in a previous post. I also never excluded EO churches, I asked how long have they been in communion with the church, so the court is still out.
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Ranp
Guest
I will keep these two sisters of ours in my prayers as they stand in faith against evil. May the Holy Spirit give them comfort in their suffering and strenght in defending their faith.
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dashso40
Guest
These women are so brave…They are suffering now in that country, but they will live in eternity with our Lord, Jesus Christ, I will pray for them that they are hopefully deported and able to worship Jesus without persecution…
O ,Lord, I bring before You the distress and dangers of peoples and nations, the pleas of the imprisoned and the captive, the sorrows of the grief stricken, the needs of the refugees and the weariness of the despondent. O,Lord, stay close to all of them…Amen…
O ,Lord, I bring before You the distress and dangers of peoples and nations, the pleas of the imprisoned and the captive, the sorrows of the grief stricken, the needs of the refugees and the weariness of the despondent. O,Lord, stay close to all of them…Amen…
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Auriel
Guest
Wow, this discussion is rather shocking. Reminds me of a friend whose little boy was dying, he had emergency open heart surgery. None are catholic, but he asked for a Crucifix so he could be reminded that Jesus was there. The mom held it for him when he was wheeled into surgery.
A minister came into the waiting area, sat nearby, looked at her and asked, “Is that a crucifix?” She said yes, telling the minister that her little son may die, and why he wanted one. First words were…“You know that is Catholic, right? Catholics are satanic, etc…” And then began to tell her how evil that crucifix was and she should get rid of it.
There was no…“I’m so sorry” or “Let me pray for your son”, there was no compassion, none at all. They only had one goal. They were determined to make her see the wrongs of a crucifix that gave the little boy hope. Something is WRONG with that picture! What he needed was prayer and compassion.
Same for these women. .
For those who do care, here is a photo of the 2 women before being imprisoned. Evin is notorious. Many are executed in that prison. The women have lost a lot of weight, and one is infected, she needs medical care that was promised 2 months ago.
According to a Human Rights group in Iran, over 300 men, women, and even minors have been executed since this past July. Seven more lost their lives last Sunday.
A minister came into the waiting area, sat nearby, looked at her and asked, “Is that a crucifix?” She said yes, telling the minister that her little son may die, and why he wanted one. First words were…“You know that is Catholic, right? Catholics are satanic, etc…” And then began to tell her how evil that crucifix was and she should get rid of it.
There was no…“I’m so sorry” or “Let me pray for your son”, there was no compassion, none at all. They only had one goal. They were determined to make her see the wrongs of a crucifix that gave the little boy hope. Something is WRONG with that picture! What he needed was prayer and compassion.
Same for these women. .
For those who do care, here is a photo of the 2 women before being imprisoned. Evin is notorious. Many are executed in that prison. The women have lost a lot of weight, and one is infected, she needs medical care that was promised 2 months ago.
According to a Human Rights group in Iran, over 300 men, women, and even minors have been executed since this past July. Seven more lost their lives last Sunday.
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juliamajor
Guest
Califman-another reason not to be a Ultra Traditionalist.No compassion no love only-blahblah blah Those women have more in common with our Lord Jesus then you ever will.They are baptized by water ,blood and Spirit if that doesn’t sanctify them nothing else will.Don’t you know love covers a multitude of faults.These women are worthy of praise for they have loved much.When you have suffered ane endured as much as they ,then you may be worthy “correcting” them but since I see nothing but pontificating ,sanctimony, legalism and downright hatred-I think you have very little to say that would improve these woman’s souls.
Please Worry about your own soul and how your lack of love is a truly great danger to it- Do not hide behind, councils,edicts,and encyclicals to justify your unkind, unloving attitude-but repent and see the log in your eye before looking for spllinters in everyone else’s.Peace
Please Worry about your own soul and how your lack of love is a truly great danger to it- Do not hide behind, councils,edicts,and encyclicals to justify your unkind, unloving attitude-but repent and see the log in your eye before looking for spllinters in everyone else’s.Peace
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