Christianity and Fear

[nsper7]

As I ruminate on my faith (I have been a Christian for five years, although I new to the Catholic Church *) it seems to me that the centerpoint of Christianity is fear. Oh, we can talk about love and it makes a great smokescreen for the fear behind it, but in the end, it seems all about fear.

I mean, we can use all the flowery language we want, but in the end, it’s either do as He says or suffer terrible and eternal horror and pain (you’re flesh roasted for all eternity, the greatest terror and torture one can imagine) in Hell. Again, in the end, that is what it is about and it makes perfect logical sense.

I mean, you tell me you love, I’ll smile and nod, but put a gun to my head (or, even worse, to more sensitive parts of the body to where a bullet will hurt excruciatingly, but it won’t kill) and order me to do something, you bet I’ll listen.

Now, some will say that we choose to go to Heaven or to Hell, but that is like you strap a bomb to someone and hand them the detonator and tell them if they let go, they explode. Real choice there, eh? I guess it kind of angers me because we are not so honest. In the end, you can talk the love of God up and down the street, but isn’t the key motivation a fear of excruciating, unending and extremely brutal pain in Hell?

Some will say that somehow that fear should grow into love. I don’t quite understand that either. For example, someone puts a gun to my head and orders me to do something, I’ll most likely do it (until their back is turned or I see a chance to get him), but will I love them? Even if they reward me well for my service, I’ll still remember they put a gun to my head to get my assistance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t care. And I have a great love for the Church and for the Saints, especially Mother Mary, but they never send people to Hell though or threaten it (except when they are saying what God is going to do).*

 

[Catholic1954]

We are not a people of fear; we are a people of faith and hope.

 

[James_S_Saint]

Wow,

I am not even Catholic and I don’t see fear as the motivator. But in ***ALL ***things there is the threat and the hope. ***ALL ***human behavior is derived from such.

"Fear scatters. Hope gathers"

It is a bit irresponsible to not mention the potential danger of NOT following the hope. If someone says, “hey come with us to another town”, you are likely to think, “well not right now, I’m kind of busy.”

But if that same person were to say, “Hey come with us to a different town because there is a tornado on its way”, you might have a different opinion about how busy you really were.

Telling of the possible danger is a sign of honesty, not a sign of terrorism or fear mongering for the sake of manipulating - assuming that the threat was real.

Of course, I am one of those who would have told the Catholics of the threat of Hell if they didn’t already know it, so I don’t see them saying anything about it as an issue. I already understand it, perhaps even better than they (but don’t tell them I said that, k).

The propaganda that Christianity is about fear mongering is just politics and deception. Nothing could be more false. The entire message from Jesus was to NOT fear any longer because NOW there is hope - IF you do as I am suggesting.

But realize that proposing a threat is far easier than proposing a hope. Parents innately sense the need to warn or threaten with punishment if not obeyed. It is just easier. A much wiser parent will not bother much with threats or punishment but rather offer a better situation so as to cause obedience. This is how dogs are trained as well.

From a psychological perspective, it is impossible to propose a hope until a “problem” or “goal” is accepted. But why attach to a goal? Most people have no idea why they exist at all, much less why they should do anything in particular. Until they are uncomfortable, they merely play. “Wisdom begins with fear” - that applies to non thinking and unmotivated people.

It is possible to inspire without fear IF you can cause someone to see that a situation would necessarily be more joyful than what they already have. but doing that is tough unless they are in discomfort already. This is why ALL of the religions began in the poor or enslaved populations. Those were the only people willing to listen. Lazarus is a good example.

 

[Katholish]

I think that the focus on fear that you emphasize is rather mis-placed at best and very harmful at worst. The Fear of God is an important part of the Christian Faith, but this is not the same as a fear of Hell.

Let me give an analogy. You are out camping and it is very cold. You start a fire and move closer to it. Why to you move close to the fire? Is it fear of the cold? In a narrowly focused way, you could seem why some people might think so, but it isn’t really the case. Just think about what “cold” is. It is the absense of heat, and in this case, a heat that is proper to the person for comfort. Thus, they move close to the fire to restore the heat that they are supposed to have, though perhaps they didn’t really appreciate that heat until they didn’t have it. God is like that Fire. He is Goodness Itself and evil is simply an absense of His Goodness.

One might ask then why anyone would choose Hell? The fact is that if you approach the fire incorrectly, you can get burned, and it is possible to have an unhealthy fear of the fire such that a person is willing to be cold rather than to be near the fire that gives heat. In this life, we cannot perceive the Divine Nature directly, and as such, we are capable of perceiving God as something bad for us and hence avoid Him.

 

[Julian0404]

As I ruminate on my faith (I have been a Christian for five years, although I new to the Catholic Church ) it seems to me that the centerpoint of Christianity is fear. Oh, we can talk about love and it makes a great smokescreen for the fear behind it, but in the end, it seems all about fear.Father Larry Richards in his CD on Truth declares that the words “Be not Afraid” as spoken by Jesus appear in the Bible 360 +/- times. Therefore, if Jesus has spent so much time teaching us to BE NOT AFRAID, then you are missing the centerpoint of the faith - as spoken directly by Jesus.

I mean, we can use all the flowery language we want, but in the end, it’s either do as He says or suffer terrible and eternal horror and pain (you’re flesh roasted for all eternity, the greatest terror and torture one can imagine) in Hell. Again, in the end, that is what it is about and it makes perfect logical sense.No, hell is not what it is all about, it is what has captured your attention in this moment of time. SALVATION, FORGIVENESS, MERCY, PRAYER, LOVE, FEARLESSNESS - all that “flowery language” explains the centerpoint of Christianity better that “Hell”. Somewhere, your focus has left Jesus and has shifted back to the world where a preoccupation with pain is overriding the joy of salvation as found in Corinthias, “…eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has it dawned on man what God has prepared for those who love HIm…” - paraphrase.

I mean, you tell me you love, I’ll smile and nod, but put a gun to my head (or, even worse, to more sensitive parts of the body to where a bullet will hurt excruciatingly, but it won’t kill) and order me to do something, you bet I’ll listen.Yes, most of us would, but this example has nothing in coorelation with your stated position.

Now, some will say that we choose to go to Heaven or to Hell,We do not chose, we exhaust our lives in “hope” of hearing the words of Jesus, “Well done good and faithful servant, enter now into My Fathers Kingdom”.- paraphrase. It is not our choice, only our hope. but that is like you strap a bomb to someone and hand them the detonator and tell them if they let go, they explode. Real choice there, eh? Again, nothing in this example correlates to the distinction between Heaven and Hell, damnatin or forgiveness, as you are arguingI guess it kind of angers me because we are not so honest. Your anger is from a misunderstanding of the faith. Your examples are not congruent with your position, and your position is simply, Why is there a Hell? That is the gist of your concern, Why did God make Hell? In the end, you can talk the love of God up and down the street, but isn’t the key motivation a fear of excruciating, unending and extremely brutal pain in Hell? NO, it is serving and pleasing God that is the key motivation. The negative image of hell is what you have fixated upon.

Some will say that somehow that fear should grow into love. I don’t quite understand that either. For example, someone puts a gun to my head and orders me to do something, I’ll most likely do it (until their back is turned or I see a chance to get him), but will I love them? Even if they reward me well for my service, I’ll still remember they put a gun to my head to get my assistance.Irrelevant to your arguement

Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe. Your belief is misguided. You need to seek a class or priest to discuss your misconceptions. You need to study “Free Will” and the determine if you Love God, as oppossed to merely "believing in Him"If I didn’t, I wouldn’t care. And I have a great love for the Church and for the Saints, especially Mother Mary, but they never send people to Hell BINGO - here is your true position. Why is there a Hell? though or threaten it (except when they are saying what God is going to do).

Know this: Hell was not made for man. It was made for the fallen angles. Man’s inclusion in the eternal punishment is from their decision to “hate God” and “love the world”. Do not just believe in God, study, read, pray and ask that God comes into our heart. You need to establish a personal relationship with God, so that His love becomes your focus, and not the punishment He has created for those who knew Him in heaven, and still rejected Him.

 

[jkiernan56]

… evil is simply an absense of His Goodness.

Hi Katholish,

Before I respond to this particular thread, I for one think the definition of evil you provided is very inadequate. A lie cannot exist without it’s corresponding truth. Evil cannot exist without its corresponding Good. Rather than see evil as an absence of the Good, I prefer to liken it to some Good that has been misused and corrupted. It is not so much the absence, but rather the presence of corrupted Good A corrupted apple by definition indicates a good apple that has gone bad. If what is Good did not exist, evil could not exist - just as a lie cannot exist without its corresponding truth. Evil is Goodness corrupted. I prefer that image rather than the absence of Good.

 

[Katholish]

Hi Katholish,

Before I respond to this particular thread, I for one think the definition of evil you provided is very inadequate. A lie cannot exist without it’s corresponding truth. Evil cannot exist without its corresponding Good. Rather than see evil as an absence of the Good, I prefer to liken it to some Good that has been misused and corrupted. It is not so much the absence, but rather the presence of corrupted Good A corrupted apple by definition indicates a good apple that has gone bad. If what is Good did not exist, evil could not exist - just as a lie cannot exist without its corresponding truth. Evil is Goodness corrupted. I prefer that image rather than the absence of Good.

I will try to defend the adequacy of what I said, because I think the nuance between my wording and yours is significant.

You said that without some good, evil could not exist. I think the critical thing to point out is that evil in fact does not “exist”. Evil is not a thing. Evil (and sin by extension) is technically defined as “the privation of a due good”. This is admirably set forth by St. Augustine, but can be clearly found in Thomas or really any other Catholic philosopher/theologian who addresses the concept of evil. In saying that it is a privation of a good, one is of course recognizing that its concrete relation to some particular good, which I really think is your main point, but if you say that the corrupted good IS evil, and no longer a good, you run into serious problems of reifying the evil (making it into a thing).

A rotten apple still possesses goodness, but not all of the goodness that is due its nature. Likewise, there is some goodness even in Satan (the goodness of existence and the powers of his nature even though they are dimmed). The thing itself is not evil, but its condition of privation makes it so analogously.

 

[jkiernan56]

As I ruminate on my faith (I have been a Christian for five years, although I new to the Catholic Church *) it seems to me that the centerpoint of Christianity is fear. Oh, we can talk about love and it makes a great smokescreen for the fear behind it, but in the end, it seems all about fear.

I mean, we can use all the flowery language we want, but in the end, it’s either do as He says or suffer terrible and eternal horror and pain (you’re flesh roasted for all eternity, the greatest terror and torture one can imagine) in Hell. Again, in the end, that is what it is about and it makes perfect logical sense.

I mean, you tell me you love, I’ll smile and nod, but put a gun to my head (or, even worse, to more sensitive parts of the body to where a bullet will hurt excruciatingly, but it won’t kill) and order me to do something, you bet I’ll listen.

Now, some will say that we choose to go to Heaven or to Hell, but that is like you strap a bomb to someone and hand them the detonator and tell them if they let go, they explode. Real choice there, eh? I guess it kind of angers me because we are not so honest. In the end, you can talk the love of God up and down the street, but isn’t the key motivation a fear of excruciating, unending and extremely brutal pain in Hell?

Some will say that somehow that fear should grow into love. I don’t quite understand that either. For example, someone puts a gun to my head and orders me to do something, I’ll most likely do it (until their back is turned or I see a chance to get him), but will I love them? Even if they reward me well for my service, I’ll still remember they put a gun to my head to get my assistance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t care. And I have a great love for the Church and for the Saints, especially Mother Mary, but they never send people to Hell though or threaten it (except when they are saying what God is going to do).*

Did you grow up doing what you were asked by your parents and teachers out of fear? Or was there ever a time you did what they asked out of love and respect?

Biblically, true “fear of the love” is reverent awe and love.

 

[donsnow]

As I ruminate on my faith (I have been a Christian for five years, although I new to the Catholic Church *) it seems to me that the centerpoint of Christianity is fear. Oh, we can talk about love and it makes a great smokescreen for the fear behind it, but in the end, it seems all about fear.

I mean, we can use all the flowery language we want, but in the end, it’s either do as He says or suffer terrible and eternal horror and pain (you’re flesh roasted for all eternity, the greatest terror and torture one can imagine) in Hell. Again, in the end, that is what it is about and it makes perfect logical sense.

I mean, you tell me you love, I’ll smile and nod, but put a gun to my head (or, even worse, to more sensitive parts of the body to where a bullet will hurt excruciatingly, but it won’t kill) and order me to do something, you bet I’ll listen.

Now, some will say that we choose to go to Heaven or to Hell, but that is like you strap a bomb to someone and hand them the detonator and tell them if they let go, they explode. Real choice there, eh? I guess it kind of angers me because we are not so honest. In the end, you can talk the love of God up and down the street, but isn’t the key motivation a fear of excruciating, unending and extremely brutal pain in Hell?

Some will say that somehow that fear should grow into love. I don’t quite understand that either. For example, someone puts a gun to my head and orders me to do something, I’ll most likely do it (until their back is turned or I see a chance to get him), but will I love them? Even if they reward me well for my service, I’ll still remember they put a gun to my head to get my assistance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t care. And I have a great love for the Church and for the Saints, especially Mother Mary, but they never send people to Hell though or threaten it (except when they are saying what God is going to do).*

Hi, nsper7 -

As it is written, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; and before honor comes humility.” That’s from the book of Proverbs.

Let me try this little parable. You are walking along with friends and family and all of you come upon a cliff and they holler “Stop”.
Now, technically speaking, you have two choices. This time, it’s not a gun at your head: it’s a cliff right in front of your feet. You can walk on and fall to your death, or you can stop. That’s just the way it is. Can you see that?

There are two eternal destinations. You have two choices. That’s just the way it is. Who are you judge whether God should have made it differently?

 

[donsnow]

I will try to defend the adequacy of what I said, because I think the nuance between my wording and yours is significant… The thing itself is not evil, but its condition of privation makes it so analogously.

My response is in the context of the Devil being “The thing itself is not evil…”

Hi, Katholish -

I don’t know what they’re teaching you at that university, but the CCC says in Paragraph 391, toward the end of theat paragraph:"…The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: “The devil and the other angels were indeed created naturally good by God, [emphasis mine] but they became evil by their own doing.”

Our CCC states plainly that the Devil and his angels became evil. They were no longer good. So, imho, that gives the Devil and/or his angels an evil presence.

Consequently I respectfully disagree with your position.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

As I ruminate on my faith (I have been a Christian for five years, although I new to the Catholic Church *) it seems to me that the centerpoint of Christianity is fear. Oh, we can talk about love and it makes a great smokescreen for the fear behind it, but in the end, it seems all about fear.

I mean, we can use all the flowery language we want, but in the end, it’s either do as He says or suffer terrible and eternal horror and pain (you’re flesh roasted for all eternity, the greatest terror and torture one can imagine) in Hell. Again, in the end, that is what it is about and it makes perfect logical sense.

I mean, you tell me you love, I’ll smile and nod, but put a gun to my head (or, even worse, to more sensitive parts of the body to where a bullet will hurt excruciatingly, but it won’t kill) and order me to do something, you bet I’ll listen.

Now, some will say that we choose to go to Heaven or to Hell, but that is like you strap a bomb to someone and hand them the detonator and tell them if they let go, they explode. Real choice there, eh? I guess it kind of angers me because we are not so honest. In the end, you can talk the love of God up and down the street, but isn’t the key motivation a fear of excruciating, unending and extremely brutal pain in Hell?

Some will say that somehow that fear should grow into love. I don’t quite understand that either. For example, someone puts a gun to my head and orders me to do something, I’ll most likely do it (until their back is turned or I see a chance to get him), but will I love them? Even if they reward me well for my service, I’ll still remember they put a gun to my head to get my assistance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t care. And I have a great love for the Church and for the Saints, especially Mother Mary, but they never send people to Hell though or threaten it (except when they are saying what God is going to do).*

You’ve only been a Christian for five years, and already you’ve made the jump to the Catholic Church, so it appears you have a hankering to find the truth.

I don’t want to sound condescending, but one thing you’re going to find is that your faith will go through stages. For example, CS Lewis remembered one experienced Christian saying to him that he found “answers to prayer” seemed to get the most favourable response when Christians were new, or young in the faith. The most agonising prayer in history, by the man who was closest to the Father, “If it be possible, let this cup pass from me”, got a blunt “No”, with the door triple locked on the other side. Thus the longer a person is a Christian, the more they’re expected to stand on their own two feet.

Right now for example, for reasons of my own, I feel quite disillusioned with God in a number of ways. But I’d just be fooling myself if I tried to tell myself He wasn’t there. I’ve had far too many experiences now to even begin trying that escape route.

He’s there all right. And so is the devil. And yet God made him. By a sort of abdication, God himself gave the devil a great deal of authority over the world. How do you explain that? When I posited this question to my old Protestant pastor, he thought for a moment, and then just shrugged, and said, “Oh, he’s got a job to do I suppose”. And in the end, that’s probably what the devil is there for. He’s a catalyst, who accelerates our decisions for or against God, so that God knows what we really think of HIm.

Finally, love and judgment are two sides of the same coin. God’s already paid the penalty for those who want to turn to Him. What more can He do, and at the same time continue to respect our own freedom to choose?

I suspect in a year or so you’ll probably move on to some other stage. I’d be surprised if you don’t.

 

[annie678]

…the critical thing to point out is that evil in fact does not “exist”. Evil is not a thing. Evil (and sin by extension) is technically defined as “the privation of a due good”. This is admirably set forth by St. Augustine, but can be clearly found in Thomas…

I’m sure St. Augustine and St. Thomas are more profound than I, but I agree with you – evil does not exist in and of itself but it is the absence of good. Anything else just doesn’t make sense to me. If God created all things, then he would have created evil. Any god who would create evil is not a loving god who wants us to use all of his creation to know him, love him and serve him.

God did not create evil but He does allow it because He gave us free will – the choice is ours: good (or life) with Him vs. evil (or death) without Him.

One of my favorite passages…

(Deuteronomy 30: 15-20)
15 See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, death and adversity. 16 If you obey the commandments of the LORD your God that I am commanding you today, by loving the LORD your God, walking in his ways, and observing his commandments, decrees, and ordinances, then you shall live and become numerous, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away and you do not hear, but are led astray to bow down to other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall perish; you shall not live long in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live, 20 loving the LORD your God, obeying him, and holding fast to him; for that means life to you and length of days, so that you may live in the land that the LORD swore to give to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

Peace -
Annie

 

[jkiernan56]

My response is in the context of the Devil being “The thing itself is not evil…”

Hi, Katholish -

I don’t know what they’re teaching you at that university, but the CCC says in Paragraph 391, toward the end of theat paragraph:"…The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: “The devil and the other angels were indeed created naturally good by God, [emphasis mine] but they became evil by their own doing.”

Our CCC states plainly that the Devil and his angels became evil. They were no longer good. So, imho, that gives the Devil and/or his angels an evil presence.

Consequently I respectfully disagree with your position.

Ontologically, they are still good. Other than their existence (contingent being given to them by God, there is no other goodness in them. If you would like to learn more about this, please see the thread “Does God love the Devil”.

 

[KyivAndrew]

As I ruminate on my faith (I have been a Christian for five years, although I new to the Catholic Church *) it seems to me that the centerpoint of Christianity is fear. Oh, we can talk about love and it makes a great smokescreen for the fear behind it, but in the end, it seems all about fear.

I mean, we can use all the flowery language we want, but in the end, it’s either do as He says or suffer terrible and eternal horror and pain (you’re flesh roasted for all eternity, the greatest terror and torture one can imagine) in Hell. Again, in the end, that is what it is about and it makes perfect logical sense.

Now, some will say that we choose to go to Heaven or to Hell, but that is like you strap a bomb to someone and hand them the detonator and tell them if they let go, they explode. Real choice there, eh? I guess it kind of angers me because we are not so honest. In the end, you can talk the love of God up and down the street, but isn’t the key motivation a fear of excruciating, unending and extremely brutal pain in Hell?
*

The only pain in Hell as I’ve heard it described recently was by HH JP2 as the sinner’s self-willed “absence of God” which is Hell enough. However, the Catechism entreats us to hope for the salvation of ALL. The Church has never, ever, declared someone authoritatively in Hell. It knows it can’t. It is in God’s hands - a loving, forgiving Father who knows however what each has done.

I’ve never really gone with the emphasis on the literal “eternity” of Hell. I don’t know what the state of “time” is in the afterlife I mean. The liberal theologian Hans Kung once argued suffering in Hell is not an endless torture session that repeats itself forever. It might be an extremely painful one-off extinguishment of the damned’s soul perhaps.

Remember Christ’s words: Perfect Love drives out all Fear. Love God and your neighbor with all your heart and set all your fear of the afterlife onto Christ and keep trying to keep a good sacraments, confession routine. St. Paul said NOTHING could separate us from the Love of God. Concentrate on this to calm all fears.

Just my two cents. God Bless!

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Hmm… I’ve had the admittedly unusual experience of my father appearing in my room the night he died. At the end of the process, he simply disappeared, but not before giving this terrifying scream and at the same time it was quite obvious he was terrified of something that was approaching him.

I’m a bit cynical about attempts to downplay the eternal nature of Hell. Mary gave the children at Fatima a vision of it, and it seemed to have a lot of what might be called thermal imagery.

My father screamed in fear at something that was clearly approaching him. So it’s more than just an absence of God.

Secondly Christ’s own words,whether we like it or not, refer to the worm that never dies, and the fire that never goes out. His parable of Dives and Lazarus showed Dives in torment.

I’m afraid my old Protestant pastor may have been right when he commented to me once, “I think they (Catholics) soft peda judgment. I think they do, anyway”.

There is something to be feared. Bu then jail is not a pleasant prospect for most of us either. But by and large we don’t think about it because in the ordinary course of events, we don’t expect to go there. If real justice prevails, then only those who deserve to go there will do so.

In the same way, Hell is what might be called the punishment for transgressors. It exists, but it should not occupy our thoughts as Christians any more than jail should bother us as law abiding citizens.

 

[kamalayka9]

As I ruminate on my faith (I have been a Christian for five years, although I new to the Catholic Church *) it seems to me that the centerpoint of Christianity is fear. Oh, we can talk about love and it makes a great smokescreen for the fear behind it, but in the end, it seems all about fear.

I mean, we can use all the flowery language we want, but in the end, it’s either do as He says or suffer terrible and eternal horror and pain (you’re flesh roasted for all eternity, the greatest terror and torture one can imagine) in Hell. Again, in the end, that is what it is about and it makes perfect logical sense.

I mean, you tell me you love, I’ll smile and nod, but put a gun to my head (or, even worse, to more sensitive parts of the body to where a bullet will hurt excruciatingly, but it won’t kill) and order me to do something, you bet I’ll listen.

Now, some will say that we choose to go to Heaven or to Hell, but that is like you strap a bomb to someone and hand them the detonator and tell them if they let go, they explode. Real choice there, eh? I guess it kind of angers me because we are not so honest. In the end, you can talk the love of God up and down the street, but isn’t the key motivation a fear of excruciating, unending and extremely brutal pain in Hell?

Some will say that somehow that fear should grow into love. I don’t quite understand that either. For example, someone puts a gun to my head and orders me to do something, I’ll most likely do it (until their back is turned or I see a chance to get him), but will I love them? Even if they reward me well for my service, I’ll still remember they put a gun to my head to get my assistance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t care. And I have a great love for the Church and for the Saints, especially Mother Mary, but they never send people to Hell though or threaten it (except when they are saying what God is going to do).*

NO!

In order to understand hell, we have to understand what Heaven is.

In Heaven, there is a fundamental (greatest) thing that all of the souls will share-salvation, eternal life, communion with God. Any glory beyond this corresponds to the earthly life of the saved soul and how they lived in accordance to God’s Will.
But at the minimum, they will have life, which is what they were created for in the first place.

Likewise, in hell, there is a fundamental (worst) things that every soul soul will share, and it is twofold- the eternal separation from God, and the perpetual remorse caused by the realization that this eternal separation is the soul’s fault. Like Heaven, any suffering beyond this corresponds to the earthly life of the damned soul and how they lived against God’s known Will. The amount of suffering is not the same-it is perfectly proportionate to the sinfulness of the soul. Some will only suffer separation from God, while others will suffer this and more.
But, as the bare minimum suffering ,the basic form of suffering will be eternal death-separation from God, which is what constitutes the majority of a damned soul’s suffering.

Some will ask, “Why does hell exist?” The answer is simple:
If a soul does not want to be with God, God will not force it to be. Hell, in its most fundamental form, is simply an eternal existence separated from God-by far the worst suffering imaginable. If someone leads a perfectly virtuous life, but consciously chooses to reject the Gospel time and time again, and if they end up in hell, this is probably the only form of suffering they will endure. But don’t get me wrong- it is far worse than anything imaginable, but it won’t be as bad as other souls who will suffer that plus more.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION:

Some will criticize God, saying that He uses fear to force us to love Him. Those who say that, even though they know that hell is suffering, they don’t seem to realize just WHAT this suffering is. These people are under the impression that hell is suffering just for the sake of suffering. **It’s not!! **Again, this very suffering that they criticize is the separation FROM the very One they criticize! Ain’t that ironic?!
That is the worst suffering of hell.

Ultimately, God is perfectly fair and just beyond the comprehension of any angel or saint. He knows what He is doing.

All of creation of God-centered. Anything away from this is what we call hell. The suffering for our sin in hell is just pinches and scratches compared to that!!!

If you could beak it down, hell would be like this:

separation from God + the sadness this causes = 99.9999% of the suffering
suffering for sin = the remaining .00001%

 

[donsnow]

Ontologically, they are still good. Other than their existence (contingent being given to them by God, there is no other goodness in them. If you would like to learn more about this, please see the thread “Does God love the Devil”.

The CCC says they’re evil and I’ll go by that.
Let us agree to disagree.

 

[Trishie]

I can’t say I find fear as the emphasis in the Catholic faith or in my life, or in the lives of most Catholics I know. Perhaps personality plays a part in whether one’s emphasis is with fear or with hope and peace. For those who suffer from scrupulosity it would probably be true.

 

[Katholish]

The CCC says they’re evil and I’ll go by that.
Let us agree to disagree.

You are misinterpreting the CCC, and if you do so in a public Catholic forum, you have to expect people to refute you. The Devil and the other demons are morally evil and evil in some other ways as well, but they still retain some aspects of goodness like their very existence which jkiernan56 mentioned. If you deny that having existence is a good, then you are forced to make a painful distinction between God’s goodness and His existence in a radical way which would clearly be heretical by any standards (the CCC included). Existence itself is always a good no matter the condition of the existing thing. This is why it is technically better to exist in Hell than not exist at all.

Aside from the ontological goodness that jkiernan56 mentioned, however, I would point out that there are other aspects of goodness in their natural powers. For instance, the devil is intelligent. He misuses his intelligence and it was certainly dimmed by his fall, but it is nevertheless there, and it is objectively a good thing (though not morally good).

Moral goodness is not the only kind of goodness, which I think is the difficulty you are having. The CCC is refering to moral goodness only.

 

[jkiernan56]

The CCC says they’re evil and I’ll go by that.
Let us agree to disagree.

This happens to be a philosophical venue. You clearly avoid answering the question about whether there is anything good about the Devil and fallen angels.