Christianity and Fear

[donsnow]

You are misinterpreting the CCC, and if you do so in a public Catholic forum, you have to expect people to refute you. The Devil and the other demons are morally evil and evil in some other ways as well, but they still retain some aspects of goodness like their very existence which jkiernan56 mentioned. If you deny that having existence is a good, then you are forced to make a painful distinction between God’s goodness and His existence in a radical way which would clearly be heretical by any standards (the CCC included). Existence itself is always a good no matter the condition of the existing thing. This is why it is technically better to exist in Hell than not exist at all.

Aside from the ontological goodness that jkiernan56 mentioned, however, I would point out that there are other aspects of goodness in their natural powers. For instance, the devil is intelligent. He misuses his intelligence and it was certainly dimmed by his fall, but it is nevertheless there, and it is objectively a good thing (though not morally good).

Moral goodness is not the only kind of goodness, which I think is the difficulty you are having. The CCC is refering to moral goodness only.

Look Katholish -

All I know is that the CCC, paragraph 91 concludes with the blunt statement, “…they became evil.”
And I know that it’s the Magestirium that rules on interpretation.
I don’t know if you’re a seminarian, a deacon, a priest, a professor or a student. I don’t know your source about about my reading of para 91 (which translation in my mind requires no further interpretation, and I doubt my plain position to be heretical).

I will warn you, that throughout my different kinds and levels of ordinary education, I have learned to become suspicious of wordy statements and/or answers, to a plain statement: with good reason and sore experience.

I’ll be back tonight.

 

[donsnow]

This happens to be a philosophical venue. You clearly avoid answering the question about whether there is anything good about the Devil and fallen angels.

OK, I have the philosophical view that when pure good turns away from the Good Source, then it can only become pure evil.

 

[nsper7]

There is something to be feared. Bu then jail is not a pleasant prospect for most of us either. But by and large we don’t think about it because in the ordinary course of events, we don’t expect to go there. If real justice prevails, then only those who deserve to go there will do so.

But there are a few differences:

1. The State (at least here in America) does not want you love it, but simply to obey the laws (heck, someone can hate the State with an extreme, but as long as they don’t violate any laws in their hatred, they are still good to go)
2. The State (at least here in America) does not map out a person’s life and demand they follow that plan or go to jail

EDIT: For example, can a person take the stance: “I will obey the precepts of the Church and not commit mortal sin (if I do, I will go to Confession ASAP), but God, leave me alone. You have hung the very real threat of Hell over me and I will do what it takes to avoid the extreme negative of Hell, but other than that, leave me alone.”

 

[soma]

Fear can be replaced with love, but to be honest i think most Christians would rather be afraid.

 

[jkiernan56]

Fear can be replaced with love, but to be honest i think most Christians would rather be afraid.

Interesting thought. Why do you think this?

 

[Karmartia]

I will try to defend the adequacy of what I said, because I think the nuance between my wording and yours is significant.

You said that without some good, evil could not exist. I think the critical thing to point out is that evil in fact does not “exist”. Evil is not a thing. Evil (and sin by extension) is technically defined as “the privation of a due good”. This is admirably set forth by St. Augustine, but can be clearly found in Thomas or really any other Catholic philosopher/theologian who addresses the concept of evil. In saying that it is a privation of a good, one is of course recognizing that its concrete relation to some particular good, which I really think is your main point, but if you say that the corrupted good IS evil, and no longer a good, you run into serious problems of reifying the evil (making it into a thing).

A rotten apple still possesses goodness, but not all of the goodness that is due its nature. Likewise, there is some goodness even in Satan (the goodness of existence and the powers of his nature even though they are dimmed). The thing itself is not evil, but its condition of privation makes it so analogously.

I agree with you that evil is not a thing, it is knowlege without substance (Gen 2:17). However, I don’t believe you can say that it does not exist in fact. Evil is making the wrong choice, and the choices we make are very real, as evidenced by their resultant damages. Are you trying to say that the suffering caused by sin is real, but the sin itself is not?

Augustin himself acknowleges the reality of evil and indicates it’s purpose: “God judged it better to bring good out of evil, than to suffer no evil to exist.”

 

[soma]

I am a Christian and I feel love is the main message. If a person keeps God in his mind then evil, the devil or any demon will have no power, but many Christians would rather preach the power of Satan, which I feel gives the devil his power.