Christianity and stoicism

[heberje]

I think striving for self awareness will achieve the same thing, Why do we do the things we do?

I am not sure if you are a parent or not but one cannot hope to explain emotional control to a 9 or 10 year old. try to teach a 10 year old to over come his or her disires. That my friend is a lesson is frustration. Kids just are not equiped to handle high level abstractions. You need be fairly black and white with kids.

One of point I want to make is that Theory and execution are very rarely similar. Theory always sounds great but 2 human beings will never execute the same theory in the same way. There is always data loos in the translation.

Are you an American?

 

[LUISV]

What an interesting thread.
Stoicism is perectly compatible with Christianity. I discovered classical stoicism in high school. Though some who have known me longer think I was born into it. life threw me some curve balls early on. Stoicism helped me focus on day to day life. Structure my thoughts or allow them to cascade into depression? Not a nice prospect. My faith drove me to find solace in suffering but my intellect needed reason. The stoics understood this. Feel what ever your soul wishes but place those emotions in a framework that supports you or they will rule your actions.

 

[heberje]

Anything can rule you if you let it humans have choices.
If not letting something rule because it offends God is being stoic then alright but getting on in the physical world is a matter of reason and logic and just plain common sense you are either a survivor or your not your either a victim or your not that is our choice.
I let Jesus Christ take of the spiritual world.

 

[heberje]

Anything can rule you if you let it humans have choices.
If not letting something rule because it offends God is being stoic then alright but getting on in the physical world is a matter of reason and logic and just plain common sense you are either a survivor or your not your either a victim or your not that is our choice.
I let Jesus Christ take of the spiritual world.

 

[heberje]

Corinthians 4.8.9
Paul said:
“We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed…”

 

[Leebo]

Can one be a “Christian stoic” if the only emotion he feels is the love of God and his kingdom, or does that contradict what stoicism is meant to be?

An athiest friend of mine is convinced that the concept of Grace taught in the Catholic Church was stolen from the stoic philosophy. I don’t know where he got this, as he has read a lot more about stoicism than me(very little). I would be curious to hear your comments.

 

[GreenLantern]

An athiest friend of mine is convinced that the concept of Grace taught in the Catholic Church was stolen from the stoic philosophy. I don’t know where he got this, as he has read a lot more about stoicism than me(very little). I would be curious to hear your comments.

Could you be more specific?

Because I’ve read a bit from the Stoics and I’m not finding the similarity.

 

[Dameedna]

I am not sure if you are a parent or not but one cannot hope to explain emotional control to a 9 or 10 year old. try to teach a 10 year old to over come his or her disires. That my friend is a lesson is frustration. Kids just are not equiped to handle high level abstractions. You need be fairly black and white with kids.

I agree that you do. But I will probably disagree with you on the age upon which they deal with abstraction. The understanding grows in degrees of course.

But I guess I’m still now sure why you think stoicism does not hold a place in family life as a result of this.

You could be angry with your child, but you will practice this stoic principle because you will acknowlege the anger, discover it’s cause(your anger not theirs), then will attempt to combat your anger without allowing it to control you.

If you cannot practice this yourself, as a parent, then you run the risk of being out of control.

One of point I want to make is that Theory and execution are very rarely similar. Theory always sounds great but 2 human beings will never execute the same theory in the same way. There is always data loos in the translation.

Are you an American?

I lived in the US for 7 years, but I am an Australian.

Stoicism is more a way of being. A philosophy. It isn’t about negating your’s or a childs emotions. It isn’t about controlling yours or a childs emotions, nor does it mean you do not have to set absolute boundaries for a child.

I just don’t think that’s what they are saying.

 

[Dameedna]

What an interesting thread.
Stoicism is perectly compatible with Christianity. I discovered classical stoicism in high school. Though some who have known me longer think I was born into it. life threw me some curve balls early on. Stoicism helped me focus on day to day life. Structure my thoughts or allow them to cascade into depression? Not a nice prospect. My faith drove me to find solace in suffering but my intellect needed reason. The stoics understood this. Feel what ever your soul wishes but place those emotions in a framework that supports you or they will rule your actions.

That was very well said.

 

[Dameedna]

Anything can rule you if you let it humans have choices.
If not letting something rule because it offends God is being stoic then alright but getting on in the physical world is a matter of reason and logic and just plain common sense you are either a survivor or your not your either a victim or your not that is our choice.

This is not incompatible at all. You are using reason and logic(and common sense) to survive. You are not letting emotions rule you. This is somewhat of a stoic principle.

 

[heberje]

I am sure there a many similarities between many beliefs and many philosophies. That’s because human nature is contentious and no one belief system or philosophy will work for any two demographically different groups of people or so it seems.Stoic, Atheist, Christian, etc. are merely labels we place on things. I say as Christians the only philosophy we need concern ourselves with is the philosophy of God.The only laws we need concern ourselves with are the laws of God. I dare say if we enforce the laws of God more, then we may see a drop in other type of crimes.But that is another sticky conversation.
I am living proof that Stoicism and the Christian family has many undesirable effects.

 

[heberje]

Well the thing with kids is that their minds are so undisciplined to begin with. So unless you are an extraordinary parent with a bright child, teaching a child to negate emotions can be difficult.
Kids needs the very basic emotional development, “Crawl before you walk”, I think kids need to first understand that it is OK to talk about their feelings and that there are proper and non proper responses for feelings like anger and joy.This can be difficult enough. My kids did not seem to talk about their feelings instinctively. It is OK to be angry and frustrated, it is how you act on those feelings that make us either a good person or bad person. Kids emotional peaks and valleys are very extreme. My son would act on his feelings 1st and this is still a sore issue with me and him. I have teenagers, teenage boys and emotions are a rough spot. My son just wants to clam up and be non cooperative when it comes to facing anger issues. I remember being the same way. It is very hard especially if you have to go through a divorce, Kids suffer tremendously from divorce and they will always deny it. Teenage boys do not know what they are feeling sometimes and if you have a son that has control issues to begin with makes dealing with emotional pains that a person cannot control a very hard proposition for a teenage boy. So I think as a single parent if you can raise your kids to act and react appropriately and in a positive manner when they feel sad, angry and happy. Keep it basic and simple and if you achieve stoicism in your kids then so be it. I think the goal with kids is not to use stoicism as a goal or guide for child development. The first goal is to raise your kids to be good human beings, useful and kind both to themselves and the rest of the world as they grow their views on life will develop. I choose to use the Ten Commandment’s as a guide. I believe the goals set in the commandment’s are the best because they are almost impossible for a weak human to achieve and God understood this, so, I then think that God does not expect us to accomplish them all as much as we do the work we need to do to pursue those goals. I present the philosophy of God 1st.
“True Holiness is in right action and the Kingdom of God is in the Heart and Mind.”