Christianity is repulsive

[frangiuliano115]

badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gaa_slavery.htm

In case you are wondering about my sources. That is one of them. Please look through that article as well as the one about Celibacy and sex WITHIN marriage. What is your response?

Checked out your link. You’re into slavery. There’s a lot of other stuff humans have done that’s just as bad. Maybe you could direct us to a link with pictures of kids that have cancer and how bad it is.

You’re not telling anybody here anything new.

Slavery in Jesus’ day was a normal practice. If people subjegated themselves to it it would be less likey that they’d end up looking like the man in that first image.

So humans have done some pretty horrible things to each other.

That’s why Jesus was born. But we have a difficult time listening and following what He says. It’s as simple as that. Man has a sinful nature and it’s not easy to change. Jesus helps us to change.

So you could dislike the church, as I said in a previous post of mine.
But you shouldn’t abandon God because He’s the only hope we have. When people TRULY follow Him, things ARE good. But many don’t truly follow Him and will use any verse in the bible as an excuse.

You’re worried about all the negatives in life. And who isn’t? Only an idiot. Read Phillipians and Galatians. Trust God and not man.

Fran

 

[CompSciGuy]

I have news for you. If you dig up the history of any people group anywhere, then you will find dirt and scum such as to make you vomit. No people group is free of violence or wrongdoing in their history.

Furthermore the way you describe the Catholic Church’s teachings on sexuality is inaccurate. The Catholic Church does not take a negative view of sexuality, actually it is very positive. So positive in fact that it has laid out guidelines for how it is to be expressed and experienced. The Catholic Church believes sex is holy and should be enjoyed in a sacred way, totally self-giving and in the context of a life-long, committed marital relationship. This is not anti-sex, this is pro-sex.

Christianity does not love or encourage violence. Individual Christians throughout history, who were misguided, have committed terrible acts in the name of God. But if you read the gospel, you will see what our Lord has called us to do in response to violence.

 

[njlisa]

Thank you. I dont have time now but i will give it a read later.
Though ive read something similar. It was a book by the patriarch of Alexandria. It was on diabolical wars. Basically how the devil tempts people. It was interesting. Im not Christian anymore but still a God believer so even to this day I take advice from it.

I’m curious as to why you identify yourself as an Orthodox Christian in your profile but say here that you’re not Christian anymore. Would you be willing to explain this disparity?​

 

[someperson555]

I’m curious as to why you identify yourself as an Orthodox Christian in your profile but say here that you’re not Christian anymore. Would you be willing to explain this disparity?​

Sure. I converted to orthodox christianity a while ago because i felt it was the true church. Their theology made more sense. Their spirituality was more appealing. They were closer to original christianity than roman catholicism. They had fewer atrocities. And i could never accept the roman catholic teachings on divorce and contraception. So i was happy with it for a while but after a while i learned that they too had some flaws. There was cecaropapism and they didnt really do much to fight corruption either. However there were a few exceptions throughout their history who bravely fought corruption and injustice like the non posessors in the sixteenth century. And they did take part in demonstrations agaimst the bourgeousie in the early 18 century. However i had doubts about religion as a whole. You know its funny, i used to scoff at people who sad religion is man made. But i think in the end they turned out to be right.
All religions have a narrow legalistic view of morality. For example look at the abrahamic faiths irrational sexual and dietary taboos. Why would God condemn someone to hell just for having premarital sex or eating pork? I actually dont believe in marriage anyway. I dont believe it is a necessary requirment to have sex. There are other legalistic aspects of christianity that just dont make sense to me. For example. Pretend a guy lives his life according to christian law. He doesnt drinl, is loyal to his wife, helps the poor, etc. BUT he misses mass one sunday and doesnt confess it. So according to christianity that man would go directly to hell to be tormented for eternity. Because he missed one regulation out of like a million laws. Regardless of the fact that he never harmed anyone and was generally a helpful person.

I know i said this before but this is the spirituality i follow now.
My moral code is simple and based completely on the bible but also my intuition.
I believe do not harm anyone physically or emotionally.
Do not commit violence ( either physical, sexual, or financial).
Affirm life from conception until natural death. ( be pro life)
Respect nature and animals
Help your fellow man

• note: although i dont believe in marriage i believe those who have chosen to enter into a monogamous relationship have formed a contract and so it is wrong to break that contract. So i believe adultery is a grave sin. Its essentislly lying.

My God is God of both mercy and justice so i do believe in hell. i believe every sin will recieve its just punishment. However i do not believe in an eternal hell. I believe after a person has suffered enough God will give him a chance to repent because he is a most forgiving father.

As it says in the bible: " this is what the lord requires of you o mortal, to act justly, to love tenderly, and to walk humbly with your God". Also " do unto others as you would have them do unto you, for this is the law and the prophets". And " love your neighbor as yourself "
I believe in one God. I believe this God wants a relationship with his creation and you get it by submitting to him.

I believe he has revealed himself through the holy scriptures, but i believe the bible is the inspired word of God, not the literal word of God.
So my moral code is basedon empathy and utilitarianism.
So that is my religion now.

 

[guanophore]

I know i said this before but this is the spirituality i follow now.
My moral code is simple and based completely on the bible but also my intuition.
…
…
I believe he has revealed himself through the holy scriptures, but i believe the bible is the inspired word of God, not the literal word of God.
So my moral code is basedon empathy and utilitarianism.
So that is my religion now.

I was thinking that it might be useful to have a discussion about the website you linked on slavery, but after reading this post, it does not seem to be a useful investment.

I have to wonder, though, given your religious sentiments posted here, what brings you to CAF? You don’t seem to be here just to insult our faith, but you clearly are not looking for Catholic Answers either…

 

[njlisa]

Thanks for that explanation of your spiritual journey. It seems that you’ve cobbled together a moral/ethical system that works for you. So, how can the committed Catholics on CAF help you? I, for one, will add you to my daily Rosary intentions.

Guanophore: We arrived at the same conclusion at the same moment.

​

 

[someperson555]

I was thinking that it might be useful to have a discussion about the website you linked on slavery, but after reading this post, it does not seem to be a useful investment.

I have to wonder, though, given your religious sentiments posted here, what brings you to CAF? You don’t seem to be here just to insult our faith, but you clearly are not looking for Catholic Answers either…

Sorry for the digression. I was responding to his/ her question. I got into too much detail. I dont mean to insult. Im open to change. So back to the original.

I realize that people are sinful. But my problem is this. If christianity is trye then it follows that

1. God is with christianity.
   But then we are also forced to conclude that
2. God cares more about seemingly trivial things like attending mass on sundays and abstaining from certain foods than actual violence or injustice.
   This is what i cant wrap my mind around.

Help me understand this.
You say God is with catholicism yet he allowed all these things to happen. But you say catholic morality is superior. So is it true then that chattel slavery is less of a sin than breaking your lenten fast? Because the former was allowed at one point but the latter never allowed.

 

[someperson555]

Thanks for that explanation of your spiritual journey. It seems that you’ve cobbled together a moral/ethical system that works for you. So, how can the committed Catholics on CAF help you? I, for one, will add you to my daily Rosary intentions.

Guanophore: We arrived at the same conclusion at the same moment.

​

Thank you. I was just seeing if anyone here could clear up my misunderstandings about christianity. If i have any. I truly am sorry for my past posts on here. Honestly i have tried to delete my account numerous times before but i cannot find the feature. But im just confused about why certain religious people believe the things they do.

For example, if catholicism is the true faith then youd have to say God is with the church, no? But unfortunately that would also make me feel that things like slavery and other things are Gods will. Because why would God allow the church to " err" in the issues of slavery but not in things like drinking for example? Is drinking more sinful than robbing a human being of his freedom. Im really asking. What is the catholic or other christian view on this?

At one point the church had a forbidden book index. But now it doesnt. So if a man read descarte back then would he go to hell? But if he reads descarte now would he not commit a sin? Things like that i dont get.

 

[njlisa]

Those are really big questions. I don’t know the answers off the top of my head. I would suggest you get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the “rule book” of the church. You can also look it up online.

If you want to go deeper, you can delve into the Code of Canon law, which is also online.

You’ll also want to read a history of the Catholic Church. Make sure it has a bishop’s imprimatur.

And then, simply pray. Ask the Lord to speak to your heart. Ask Him your questions, and maybe you can find some answers that will give you some peace.

I had to do this myself when I first joined the Church.

I wish I knew more. I spend nearly all my time on the prayer forum.

As I said, I will add you to my Rosary intentions.

God bless you,
Lisa

 

[someperson555]

Those are really big questions. I don’t know the answers off the top of my head. I would suggest you get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the “rule book” of the church. You can also look it up online.

If you want to go deeper, you can delve into the Code of Canon law, which is also
thank you so much lisa. I will pray for you as well.

 

[Trident_H]

Hey, I meant to reply sooner but i was busy. Thats a nice try except that is not the reason the christian churches oppose premarital sex. Christianity just opposes sex out of pure sexuaphobia. Because that still doesnt explain the celibacy requirements placed on priests and the fact that celibacy is viewed as a higher state than marriage.

Celibacy just means a guy can choose this sacrifice to serve God in a fuller way. Basically marrying himself to the Church instead of someone else. And the reason’s pretty simple. Because a shepherd doesn’t marry one of his sheep. He’s got to stand impartial in that. He’s got to watch over everyone equally. Not be balancing family commitments to the needs of his people.

So no. Sexophobia’s a real reach. It just doesn’t ring true in this. There’s no fear of sex here. I mean have you even read JP2’s Theology of the Body? Because your answers are really going to be found there in a straight up way.

Celibacy is not biblical.

Except where St. Paul says it. So I suppose that depends on if you’re into including him in the Bible or not.

32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

Christianity is full of greek Gnostic and stoicist innovations. Ive always held monasticism in contempt. I never understood why purposely seeking out pain or discomfort to get favor from God was a good thing. I dont think God works that way.

Ever heard “No Pain No Gain?” The idea’s that to get something that’s worthwhile it takes effort. A guy never stays fit sitting in an easy chair. A guy doesn’t get to spiritual fitness by just following animal instincts. Everything needs a bit of pull back. Eating is considered good. Eating more than your share is not. But even better than just eating your share? Eating less so there’s more to go around. So others who are starving can have a bit too. That type of generosity get’s God’s attention because it’s hard. Because it shows character.

Anything hard done for God obviously’s more likely to impress Him than to make Him mad.

However the straw that broke the camels back for me was not its anti sex views but the fact that at the same time christianity was pro violent too

Want to serve me up some details? Are you sure it wasn’t the strawman that was too high and hard for that camel to carry?

I mean are you talking about that time Justin Martyr just stood and let those guys pelt him with stones? Or the time the Christians in Rome refused to rise up when they were rounded up and were ah, lionized?

Or are you talking about the huge army the Church has right now? At the ready. Following one war after another with real excitement?

The early church fathers openly advocated for chattel slavery.

Except for St. Patrick right? I mean having been captured and made a slave himself I’m sure he sort of stood apart from that hey? And man. He must have been the only one. The only non-slave driving guy in the Church. I mean I think we’ve all read the stories of all the other Saints using their slaves round the clock. Like it was a real problem. This addiction to slaves.

They actually introduced laws to curb manumissions.

While some were at the very same time telling people Jesus came to “Set the Captives Free.”

I guess every family has that stubborn old uncle always ready to make his will known ahead of what’s best for the rest.

They did little to nothing for the poor working people.

Yeah. Making the first hospitals. Feeding the hungry from the monasteries. Teaching all about giving to the poor. Collecting and distributing food for the hungry. The entire St. Vincent de Paul organization. None of that counts.

Only thing that counts is some web site found some examples where some guys in frocks swam up stream. So if five members of your extended family smoke weed on Sundays, but 80 think it’s a terrible idea are we right to still refer to y’all as the family that tokes together? I don’t know. I think you’re holding the Church to a standard higher than the tallest ladder. I mean a perfect Church is in heaven. This one on earth is still a work in progress.

When I was a Christian it broke my heart that God apparently cared more about what consenting adults do behind closed doors than actual violence or injustice.

What a weird church you must have been going to.

If I am wrong in any of my assesments please point out where and why.

Peace.

Wrong in all of them. Duly pointed. Until my finger got really tired.

Peace someperson. I don’t know where you grew up. But it must have been a lot stranger than my hometown.

-Trident

 

[pwlj_christ87]

your very post topic subject line is repulsive, you know nothing about christianity other than the people slayed other people…

 

[HelenRose]

I won’t get into this too deeply, but only to say that Christianity is only as good as the people who profess it. Peace and prayers.

We can start with Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
We can study the history of the hospitals started by Nuns.
We can study the story of Father Damian and his work with lepers.
We can look at the charities run by Catholic and Protestant Churches
We can go to any Nursing Home and find Protestant and Catholic lay people singing to, working and helping with the elderly.
You might want to look into Catholic Out Reach soup kitchens.
You might want to look at the programs for youth in any Church
You might to learn about the health care that is given to HIV victims by the Catholic Church.
It may be interesting to you to learn how much the Church has done in Haiti since the horrible earthquake.

Since Christians are taught that they are not to broadcast their good deeds, one has to do a little research to learn of the many charities that both Protestant and Catholic Church engage in.

I hope the OP will do some of this research.

 

[fred_conty]

Im sorry to use that word to describe it but that is really how i feel about it. Christianity is basically anti sex and pro violence. After years of studying christianity and the various denominations i have come to that conclusion. Please do not be mad at me. I am speaking out of depression so i am not trying to insult. I am merely saying how i feel. I think christianity is repulsive. It has a sick obsession with virginity, a hatred towrds anything beautiful or pleasurable, yet at the same time a love for violence and death. Youknow when i found orthodox christianity i was very happy because i thought " here, finally a religion without any atrocities". I knew that orthodox christianity was also very negative about sex ( only slightly less than roman catholicism). But i was willing to look past that as long as it didnt have any atrocities. But i was wrong. I learned that the OC supported slavery, got in bed with the state, and etc. I even learned that the coptic orthodox church castrated young boys against their will
Abhorrent. So basically having premarital sex was considered a grave sin but capturing bpys and mutilating them before selling them into slavery was acceptable…

No major christian church ever stood up to the state. Except ofcourse when the state started to be lenient on sex and sexuality. Then it fought the state tooth and nail. The catholic church supported feudalism all the way. They anathemized socialists yet never anathemized corrupt monarchs or capitalistic dictators. Only after the church saw that socialism was gaining support was when they came out with their reaction of " distributism". Where were they for 1800 years?

Now with that being said i dislike christianity but i like the bible. After actually reading the bible i found that christianity is quite different. Right now im basically just following my own spirituality based on the bible. I believe in one God. Thats it. I dont know if i even believe in the trinity or jesus divinty anymore. Im just believing in what i can prove logically. But i just cannot accept christianity

Just keep in mind that Jesus came to save and not condemn. He ate with tax collectors and sinners. He said he came to save those that needed saving and not the just. And so his church reflects that same ideal…to help sinners. Why don’t you join us and show us how it should be done.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Sure. I converted to orthodox christianity a while ago because i felt it was the true church. Their theology made more sense. Their spirituality was more appealing. They were closer to original christianity than roman catholicism. They had fewer atrocities. And i could never accept the roman catholic teachings on divorce and contraception. So i was happy with it for a while but after a while i learned that they too had some flaws. There was cecaropapism and they didnt really do much to fight corruption either. However there were a few exceptions throughout their history who bravely fought corruption and injustice like the non posessors in the sixteenth century. And they did take part in demonstrations agaimst the bourgeousie in the early 18 century. However i had doubts about religion as a whole. You know its funny, i used to scoff at people who sad religion is man made. But i think in the end they turned out to be right.
All religions have a narrow legalistic view of morality. For example look at the abrahamic faiths irrational sexual and dietary taboos. Why would God condemn someone to hell just for having premarital sex or eating pork? I actually dont believe in marriage anyway. I dont believe it is a necessary requirment to have sex. There are other legalistic aspects of christianity that just dont make sense to me. For example. Pretend a guy lives his life according to christian law. He doesnt drinl, is loyal to his wife, helps the poor, etc. BUT he misses mass one sunday and doesnt confess it. So according to christianity that man would go directly to hell to be tormented for eternity. Because he missed one regulation out of like a million laws. Regardless of the fact that he never harmed anyone and was generally a helpful person.

I know i said this before but this is the spirituality i follow now.
My moral code is simple and based completely on the bible but also my intuition.
I believe do not harm anyone physically or emotionally.
Do not commit violence ( either physical, sexual, or financial).
Affirm life from conception until natural death. ( be pro life)
Respect nature and animals
Help your fellow man

• note: although i dont believe in marriage i believe those who have chosen to enter into a monogamous relationship have formed a contract and so it is wrong to break that contract. So i believe adultery is a grave sin. Its essentislly lying.

My God is God of both mercy and justice so i do believe in hell. i believe every sin will recieve its just punishment. However i do not believe in an eternal hell. I believe after a person has suffered enough God will give him a chance to repent because he is a most forgiving father.

As it says in the bible: " this is what the lord requires of you o mortal, to act justly, to love tenderly, and to walk humbly with your God". Also " do unto others as you would have them do unto you, for this is the law and the prophets". And " love your neighbor as yourself "
I believe in one God. I believe this God wants a relationship with his creation and you get it by submitting to him.

I believe he has revealed himself through the holy scriptures, but i believe the bible is the inspired word of God, not the literal word of God.
So my moral code is basedon empathy and utilitarianism.
So that is my religion now.

Hi Someperson555

I’ve posted 2 or 3 times but you don’t answer.

I’ve had an important question for you to which there is no answer.

First of all everything you listed up above is representative of Christianity. Then you say you don’t like Christianity. I’ve been trying to find out if you don’t like the Catholic church or is it that you don’t like christianity?

I’ve said to read the bible and God will speak to you. I think you have and I think He has.
I think you’re on a good path, if I may be so bold as to say.

What do you mean by “utalitarianism”?

I think your problem is with the church, not with Christianity. However, if you don’t believe Jesus is divine, that WOULD bring up a problem since Christianity has the word “Christ” in it. Do you think he is just a prophet??

Fran

 

[guanophore]

Thanks for that explanation of your spiritual journey. It seems that you’ve cobbled together a moral/ethical system that works for you. So, how can the committed Catholics on CAF help you? I, for one, will add you to my daily Rosary intentions.

Guanophore: We arrived at the same conclusion at the same moment.

​

Except that I did not post that another name has been added to my spiritual warfare prayer list.

Satan is a liar and a murderer from the beginning. His goal is to turn people away from Life. He will use any tactic.

 

[guanophore]

Im open to change.   So back to the original.

This does not seem evident from your posts but I will accept your testimony on the matter.

I realize that people are sinful.

This is good because it seems that you are blaming the sins of men on “Christianity”, making it “repulsive”.

But my problem is this.  If christianity is trye then it follows that

1. God is with christianity.
   But then we are also forced to conclude that
2. God cares more about seemingly trivial things like attending mass on sundays and abstaining from certain foods than actual violence or injustice.
   This is what i cant wrap my mind around.

No, you are not “forced” to conclude anything. You have reached inaccurate conclusions based upon false premises.

You are also making inaccurate judgments. There is nothing trivial about unity with Christ. If we are not in communion with Him, we can do nothing about violence and injustice, and will be overrun by it.

Help me understand this.

You say God is with catholicism yet he allowed all these things to happen.

God created humankind in His own likeness and image. As a result, humankind has free will to choose evil instead of good.

 But you say catholic morality is superior.

I did not assert this myself, but I am not sure I would disagree, I just am not sure what you mean by it. If you are referencing the history of slavery and Christianity you linked above, then I would say that the vast majority of persons involved in promoting and benefitting from human slavery were not acting with Christian morality in this area of their lives.

So is it true then that chattel slavery is less of a sin than breaking your lenten fast?

How do you figure that?

Because the former was allowed at one point but the latter never allowed.

Again you have made a false conclusion. There are exceptions to the lenten fast, and the observance has changed over the centuries, and is different in East and West.

Permitting social structures like slavery is not a teaching of the Church. Fasting is a discipline of the Church.

It took three hundred years for the individual freedom endemic in Christianity to cause the structure of slavery to crumble. When Paul wrote his NT letters, and gave instructions about slavery, he expected the imminent return of Christ and the end of the age. He was teaching people how to practice their faith within a corrupt social system. Surviving social evils is not equivalent to promoting them.

 

[guanophore]

Thank you.  I was just seeing if anyone here could clear up my misunderstandings about christianity.  If i have any.

I think you do have misunderstandings, and I think there are people here that can help you.

I truly am sorry for my past posts on here.  Honestly i have tried to delete my account numerous times before but i cannot find the feature.  But im just confused about why certain religious people believe the things they do.

Maybe God wants you to be here?

CAF is a great place to learn why certain religious people believe the things they do.

  For example, if catholicism is the true faith then youd have to say God is with the church, no?  But unfortunately that would also make me feel that things like slavery and other things are Gods will.

There are many levels of God’s will. There is His perfect will, and also His permissive will. He allows evil to exist so that greater good can come of it. Jesus was much more concerned about our enslavement to sin than the social structures around slave trading. One is eternal and the other only temporal.

 Because why would God allow the church to " err" in the issues of slavery but not in things like drinking for example?

Slavery is not included in the Divine Deposit of Faith. Certainly the way we live out our faith is releveant to slavery, but it is not a doctrine of the faith. It is a social evil with which we must contend.

There is nothing in the Divine Deposit of faith about Hitler’s final solution for the Jews, either, but we must contend with this social evil. God permitted the holocaust.

      Is drinking more sinful than robbing a human being of his freedom.  Im really asking.  What is the catholic or other christian view on this?

It is a good question, and it depends upon the individual. If I have a drinking problem, then my freedom is restricted. I am enslaved by the substance. On the other hand, I may never have any contact or experience with enslavement, so it is not something with which I personally struggle. Spiritually I may be more at risk with drunkeness.

At one point the church had a forbidden book index. But now it doesnt. So if a man read descarte back then would he go to hell? But if he reads descarte now would he not commit a sin? Things like that i dont get.

These things are church disciplines, which change over time, and across cultures. They are not in the same category as church doctrines, which do not change.

You will not be able to make sense out of any of them outside of the historical and cultural context in which they occur.

You clearly have excellent and releveant questions. I only hope that you are open to exploring answers before giving up on your faith.

 

[frangiuliano115]

It took three hundred years for the individual freedom endemic in Christianity to cause the structure of slavery to crumble. When Paul wrote his NT letters, and gave instructions about slavery, he expected the imminent return of Christ and the end of the age. He was teaching people how to practice their faith within a corrupt social system. ** Surviving social evils is not equivalent to promoting them.**

Guanophore,

I had brought up the above highlighted in a previous post, but you word it perfectly. How to survive slavery and not end up looking like that man in the image of her link was my point.

Ditto for Jews eating pork. Brought up by the O.P. as a requirement. It’s not so much that it was a sin. It’s because the Hebrews were living in a hot climate and pork is the most dangerous meat to eat when it’s not fresh. God always did everything for our own good - all commandments are for our own good. Non christians see rules, christians see a way of life.

Also, I had read way back when that the 8th day of life (when Hebrew male babies were circumcised) is the day when there is the least bleeding. But I never confirmed this - it would be interesting to.

I’m just saying that God can be trusted.

You probably said other good things, I can’t read it all right now.

Have a joyous Christmas
Fran

 

[njlisa]

Our OP has been banned. I pray he finds his way to Jesus.