Christianity not united, losing faith on possible unity for Christianity

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Mannyfit75

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I will say this once base on the discussion here. With all the debates between Catholics, Protestants, and Eastern Orthodox, I notice that there is no hope in unity for all three of them. We argue a lot of many of the disagreements we have rather than look at what units us.

I, therefore, conclude that Christianity is not united but divided because of the continues arguments on key doctrines which set many of us apart. Sometimes, I ponder if Christians in all three major groups, really can live out Jesus Christ’s call that we should be “one flock, one fold.” I don’t see this at all.

I think when the world comes to an end, we will all be held accountible on our actions. I wonder how many of you will answer to the Lord when he questions, why we continue to bicker and fight on issues that really has nothing to do with our salvation.
 
Well, the great majority of those calling themselves Christian do believe many of the same things— the Trinity, the Virgin Birth of Christ to name just two. It is in the interpretation of the Bible and the acceptance of authority that we seem to get the most disagreement.

So a question might be what is most important— orthodoxy which may be defined as correct teaching or orthopraxis which may be defined as correct practice of the faith. Or are they equally important? Manny, do you feel the fight is more over teaching or practice? Or is that for a different thread?
 
Rocky said:
Well, the great majority of those calling themselves Christian do believe many of the same things— the Trinity, the Virgin Birth of Christ to name just two. It is in the interpretation of the Bible and the acceptance of authority that we seem to get the most disagreement.

So a question might be what is most important— orthodoxy which may be defined as correct teaching or orthopraxis which may be defined as correct practice of the faith. Or are they equally important? Do you feel the fight is more over teaching or practice? Or is that for a different thread?
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We can teach them correct beliefs and doctrine and we can hope they can understand it. If they don’t understand, they should leave it to God’s providence and rely on faith rather than doubt.

The problem with the discussion on this forum though, is that they focuse on the divided issues. They don’t focus on the doctrines that unites us as Christians.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
The problem with the discussion on this forum though, is that they focuse on the divided issues. They don’t focus on the doctrines that unites us as Christians.
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It’s not just on this forum, really. American evangelicals are so far removed from Catholicism, it isn’t even funny. I was recently watching the movie “Jesus Camp” and I was deeply shocked and saddened when the little girl, Rachael, described what she called ‘dead churches’ - basically, liturgical churches - where she said God is not present. She has no experience of any kind of worship that is different from her own. That kind of deep-seeded indoctrination of ignorance is perhaps impossible to overcome.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
We can teach them correct beliefs and doctrine and we can hope they can understand it. If they don’t understand, they should leave it to God’s providence and rely on faith rather than doubt.

The problem with the discussion on this forum though, is that they focuse on the divided issues. They don’t focus on the doctrines that unites us as Christians.
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Those things we agree on are not going to have as much focus for the simple reason that we agree on them! It’s the differences that interest and need to be worked out. Also are “they” trying to teach us—asking us to go on faith in accepting their understanding?
 
Once people are willing to start focusing ON the SIMILARITIES, there will be hope. I think that the topics on this forum are not necessarily an accurate reflection of people’s views – this forum seems to focus on the debate.

It really comes down to what people agree is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for salvation. If all the Christian churches could agree on that, we could get somewhere. I’m not sure if they can, though. I think most Protestant churches agree among themselves about what is absolutely necessary. Catholics and Orthodox, however, have a lot more doctrines etc. and then you have to try and figure out where the line is between absolutely unquestionably THIS IS NECESSARY and what is not. For example, do you have to believe that Mary was conceived immaculately and taken straight to heaven in order to be saved? Or can you get to heaven, find out you were wrong, but still be saved?
 
The gates of hell will never prevail against the Catholic Church.
So when the Orthodox Church and the other churches fall into disorder and schism and when their doctrines on faith and morals are seriously undermined,they will have to take refuge in the Catholic Church.

For the first 8 centuries,there were major heresies and schisms in the Eastern churches,and the Eastern clergy were bound to the authority of Rome and sought Rome’s help in quashing heresies and restoring order. It was only after the heresies had been quashed and the Eastern churches were more orderly that the Eastern clergy became proudly nationalistic,and self-confident enough to defy the authority of the Roman church.
 
anthony022071 said:
The gates of hell will never prevail against the Catholic Church.
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Yeah the same way the gates of hell is not prevailing over Islam and Mormonism.

Mannyfit75,

Dont lose heart. Many good things came out of christian DIVERSITY. 🙂
 
Mannyfit75 said:
I just posted this on a similar thread, I think it applies here also,

This division is played out since the first covenant of God. Cain and abel, Egypt and Israel, Ishmael and Isaac. Recall the flood, only 8 persons in all survived the flood, recall the gospels parable, One will be left one will be taken, recall the 12 disciples, one was lost Judas, recall the creation One angel fell and led many with him FROM HEAVEN MIND YOU.

My point, The Roman Catholic Church is united at the Eucharist all around the world, but one of our brothers is left out of the body of Jesus Christ, to which you notice the division. My prayer gets realized when one is recieved back into communion with Mother Church, as the prodigal son comes to a reality.

Jesus is the only one that can unite us all, and he has done it through the Eucharist. Now its up to Catholics to call all those in the streets and in the by ways into the WEDDING FEAST OF THE LAMB before the door gets shut. And as we know we need to have our wedding garments on “Baptism” into the body of Jesus Christ.

We are the divided not because of the flesh and blood,

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.

The antidote:
Colossians 2:12 and following You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead in transgressions and uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions: obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross: despoiling the proncipalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it.

Matthew 25:10 While they went off to buy it, the bridegroom came and those who were ready went into the wedding feast with him. Then the door was locked. Afterwards the other virgins came ans said, "Lord, Lord, open the door for us! But he said in reply, Amen, I say to you, I do not know you.

Matthew 7: 21… "not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Then I will declare to them solemnly , I NEVER KNEW YOU. DEPART FROM ME, YOU EVIL DOERS.

Many are called to the kingdom of God, but not all will enter.

I pray for the lost sheep that are vulnerabel to every wind of doctrine that comes their way, that the Rock of Peter will be their to withstand and dispell the powers and principalities of darkness that roam the earth.

Sorry did not mean to preach to you, but you ask a difficult question? How difficult was it for Jesus when he knew he was going to be betrayed by one he called and loved?
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anthony022071 said:
The gates of hell will never prevail against the Catholic Church.
So when the Orthodox Church and the other churches fall into disorder and schism and when their doctrines on faith and morals are seriously undermined,they will have to take refuge in the Catholic Church.

For the first 8 centuries,there were major heresies and schisms in the Eastern churches,and the Eastern clergy were bound to the authority of Rome and sought Rome’s help in quashing heresies and restoring order. It was only after the heresies had been quashed and the Eastern churches were more orderly that the Eastern clergy became proudly nationalistic,and self-confident enough to defy the authority of the Roman church.
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Hey anthony, I followed some of your post, your bucking for Martrydom, Where can I sign up in your war camp, I respect your boldness in the Lord. We need more of this from our pulpits.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Yeah the same way Catholicism gave hell to the world too a few hundred years ago.
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It was never Catholicism as such that gave hell to the world. “Catholicism” consists of the doctrines of the Catholic Church. There are no Catholic doctrines which advocate war or slavery or torture.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
I will say this once base on the discussion here. With all the debates between Catholics, Protestants, and Eastern Orthodox, I notice that there is no hope in unity for all three of them. We argue a lot of many of the disagreements we have rather than look at what units us.
The fact that we argue, etc. here on this forum is because many of us are debaters by nature. Debaters thrive on getting their points across (or at least attempting to do so), and wrestling with other concepts and ideas - a bit like iron sharpening iron. Those who do not have as much of the “debating nature” within, often see us (debaters) as divisive/overly-critical/harsh. The difficulty comes when we get out of balance and forget the subject at hand and start attacking each other. 😦 We forget we’re relating to other people - for whom Messiah also gave His life.
I, therefore, conclude that Christianity is not united but divided because of the continues arguments on key doctrines which set many of us apart. Sometimes, I ponder if Christians in all three major groups, really can live out Jesus Christ’s call that we should be “one flock, one fold.” I don’t see this at all.

In answer to this I can only refer to my spouse’s experience in the military and my own over-seas experiences. For various reasons, when the “rubber hit the road” and lives were on the line (literally), the petty differences and bickering was cast aside and believers became united.

Another example of this kind of unity is the relationship between my sister and myself. She is RC, I am not. However, we are united in praying for the rest of our family to know the L-RD. We may not see eye-to-eye on every bit of doctrine, but we strive to love the L-RD with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. And when we get together, we always have lots of questions and great discussions between us.

For these reasons, I have confidence that one day when all of these present things pass away (chaff), what we will have left (among us) is the completeness in/of Messiah.

shalom

I think when the world comes to an end, we will all be held accountible on our actions. I wonder how many of you will answer to the Lord when he questions, why we continue to bicker and fight on issues that really has nothing to do with our salvation.
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Its an internet discussion board Manny. They breed disunity.
Yeah I think the picture is bleak too but what can I do?🤷
I am trying my best to help our own little part of the body of Christ to be more externally focused. When we are helping others, we spend less time focused on the little things.
BH
 
BrianH said:
Its an internet discussion board Manny. They breed disunity.
Yeah I think the picture is bleak too but what can I do?🤷
I am trying my best to help our own little part of the body of Christ to be more externally focused. When we are helping others, we spend less time focused on the little things.
BH
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Why not focus on things on unity and common beliefs. If there are difference, there should be some understanding between the parties.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
I will say this once base on the discussion here. With all the debates between Catholics, Protestants, and Eastern Orthodox, I notice that there is no hope in unity for all three of them. We argue a lot of many of the disagreements we have rather than look at what units us.

I, therefore, conclude that Christianity is not united but divided because of the continues arguments on key doctrines which set many of us apart. Sometimes, I ponder if Christians in all three major groups, really can live out Jesus Christ’s call that we should be “one flock, one fold.” I don’t see this at all.

I think when the world comes to an end, we will all be held accountible on our actions. I wonder how many of you will answer to the Lord when he questions, why we continue to bicker and fight on issues that really has nothing to do with our salvation.
Click to expand...
It’s good to see someone beside me in the prayer for unity. But like you, it’s not happening as well as I hope for. How can it with such hate. Both protestant and catholic would rather be right in their own mind than to be like Christ. Both say to the other that they are bound for hell and play god in doing so. One side takes the perfection of the Church and doesn’t seperate the office and man when doing so and the other far too often just hates the catholic because they’ve been taught lies about them.
I love the Roman Church but the inability to admit mistakes and grave errors keeps me from joining them. Not to mention I’m married and called into the clergy.
The protestant shows no sign of willing to forgive either and would rather teach lies about the Catholic than to try to understand what those things forien to them are really about. The evangelical reduces the Bread and cup to a memorial as to not appear too catholic. The words of Christ about it come second. They ignore authority given of Christ to the apostles alone and say it is for everyone making Church government a free for all.
I find a glimmer of hope in an odd place. Charismatic catholics. They open their Communion to all who are baptized in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They actually seem to understand the meaning of the word “catholic”. They are not holding a century old grudge with east or West. They do not attempt not to appear catholic as they truly are Catholic in the truest sence of the word. They seek communion both with the East and Rome but are denied by both. And this hurts the most: When I speak with any Spirit led Roman bishop or priest, I find this grieves their heart as well. When I speak to the Orthodox priest he is also grieved. But neither are willing to take a stand and speak for fear of being berated by those above them.
I thank my Lord and saviour, Jesus Christ for instilling in me the desperante need for unity between the brethren. But being considered a heathen by both sides, I’m not optimistic this side of heaven. No Church will get you into heaven. A belief in Christ does that. The Church is were we worship and who we are. I’ve said too much.
And now I await once again being told I’m headed for hell. But the heaven those desire is filled with those who hate and judge not knowing the heart. Perhaps they’ll go ahead and change their username to god (note the little g).

Was that a tad harsh?
 
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