Christianity or Islam’s Teaching on God?

[Reuben_J]

Throughout the ages people strive to find the ultimate meaning or purpose of their lives and of human existence.

“You have made us for yourself, And our hearts are restless until they rest in you”.

• St. Augustine in his Confessions

“O god, you are my God, and I long for you. My whole being desires you; like a dry, worn-out, and waterless land, my soul is thirsty for you. Let me see you in the sanctuary; let me see how mighty and glorious you are. Your constant love is better than life itself, and so I will praise you”. - Ps 63: 1-3

Christians’ understanding of this God is that He is love and can be likened to a father.

While Islam has similar attributes (for example, loving and merciful) of Allah, Allah nevertheless seems to be a God of punishment as evidence by the many Quranic verses concerning this. These verses describe how Allah punishes different types of people and sin. One needs to obey Allah’s command in order to escape punishment by the demanding master.

If one genuinely tries to seek God, which teaching would be closest to understand God for what he is?

 

[r.gonzales]

Reuben J:

While Islam has similar attributes (for example, loving and merciful) of Allah, Allah nevertheless seems to be a God of punishment as evidence by the many Quranic verses concerning this.

this is the picture you get by looking at one batch of verses and turning a blind eye to the other.

there are just as many - if not more - verses in the Quran that describe Allah as being Merciful, Oft-forgiving, Compassionate, Loving, an Accepter of repentance and as being Just, not wronging an atom’s weight of good done for His sake.

the Quran teaches the believer to live a balanced life, one of obeying Allah out of love for Him, out of fear for His anger and punishment and out of longing and hope for His forgiveness and mercy.

 

[Hashi_Al-Eritre]

r.gonzales:

the Quran teaches the believer to live a balanced life, one of obeying Allah** out of love ** for Him, **out of fear ** for His anger and punishment and **out of longing and hope ** for His forgiveness and mercy.

This is a distict aspect of Islam, that it calls to such a balanced approach in how to believe and worship God. A Muslim must Love God, Fear God, and Hope in God.

I would like to paste a prophetic saying (hadeeth) regarding a man who killed 100 people then repented.

Abu Sa’eed Sa’d ibn Maalik ibn Sinaan al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“There was among the people who came before you a man who killed ninety-nine people. Then he asked about the most knowledgeable person on earth, and was directed to a hermit, so he went to him, told him that he had killed ninety-nine people, and asked if he could be forgiven. The hermit said, ‘No,’ so he killed him, thus completing one hundred.

Then he asked about the most knowledgeable person on earth and was directed to a scholar. He told him that he had killed one hundred people, and asked whether he could be forgiven. The scholar said, ‘Yes, what could possibly come between you and repentance? Go to such-and-such a town, for in it there are people who worship Allaah. Go and worship with them, and do not go back to your own town, for it is a bad place.”

So the man set off, but when he was halfway there, the angel of death came to him, and the angels of mercy and the angels of wrath began to argue over him. The angels of mercy said: ‘He had repented and was seeking Allaah.’ The angels of wrath said: ‘He never did any good thing.’ An angel in human form came to them, and they asked him to decide the matter. He said: ‘Measure the distance between the two lands (his home town and the town he was headed for), and whichever of the two he is closest to is the one to which he belongs.’ So they measured the distance, and found that he was closer to the town for which he had been headed, so the angels of mercy took him.” (Bukhari and Muslim).

According to a report in al-Saheeh: “The righteous town was a hand-span closer, so he was counted as one of its people.”

According to another report in al-Saheeh: “Allaah commanded (the evil town) to move away, and (the righteous town) to move closer, and said: ‘Measure the distance between them,’ and they found him to be a hand-span closer to the righteous town, so he was forgiven.”

 

[Reuben_J]

r.gonzales:

the Quran teaches the believer to live a balanced life, one of obeying Allah out of love for Him, out of fear for His anger and punishment and out of longing and hope for His forgiveness and mercy.

How do you reconcile obeying Allah out of love for Him and His punishment? Is fear for His anger and punishment at same level as love for Him the reason for obeying Him?

What about punishment on earth for spiritual sin? What’s there left of the punishment in thereafter?

 

[Reuben_J]

Hashi Al-Eritre:

This is a distict aspect of Islam, that it calls to such a balanced approach in how to believe and worship God. A Muslim must Love God, Fear God, and Hope in God.

I would like to paste a prophetic saying (hadeeth) regarding a man who killed 100 people then repented.

What guarantee is there that my sin will be forgiven?

 

[Hashi_Al-Eritre]

Reuben J:

What guarantee is there that my sin will be forgiven?

Theres alot i can quote, here are just a few verses and hadeeths:

God said in the Quran: “Say: ‘O My slaves who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allaah, verily Allaah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And turn in repentance and in obedience with true faith to your Lord and submit to Him…” [al-Zumar 39:53-54].

God also said in a Hadeeth Qudsi (a saying of the Prophet Muhammed quoting God): “Allaah says: “Whoever knows that I am able to forgive all sins, I shall forgive him, and I shall not mind, so long as he does not associate anything (in worship) with Me.’” (Reported by al-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer, and by al-Haakim; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 4330).

In another Hadeeth Qudsi, God said:“ ‘O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and put your hope in Me, I will forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, if your sins were to reach the clouds of the sky, and you were to ask me for forgiveness, I will forgive you and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, if you were to come to Me with sins nearly the size of the earth, and you were to meet Me not associating anything with Me, then I would bring you forgiveness nearly the size of (the earth).’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 4338).

The Prophet Mohammed said (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “The one who repents from his sin is like the one who did not sin in the first place.” (Reported by Ibn Maajah; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 3008).

In Islam, repentance is accepted so long as either of two things have not happened: Tthe Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever repents before the death rattle reaches his throat, Allaah will accept it from him” (reported by Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi, Saheeh al-Jaami’, 6132) and “Whoever repents before the sun rises in the West, Allaah will accept his repentance” (reported by Muslim).

One can repent any time before death or before the Sun rises from the west (one of the last major signs before the day of judgement), and his/her repentance will be accepted. But since nobody knows when death will strike or when the sun will rise from the west, that is why Islam encourages hastiness in repenting from sins.

There are four conditions for the acceptance of repentance in Islam:

1. Leaving the sin;
2. Remorse/Regret over having committed the sin;
3. Resolve never to return to the sin;
4. (If it relates to the rights of another person, then to) Return the rights or property one wrongly took.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hashi Al-Eritre:

Theres alot i can quote, here are just a few verses and hadeeths:

God said in the Quran: “Say: ‘O My slaves who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allaah, verily Allaah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And turn in repentance and in obedience with true faith to your Lord and submit to Him…” [al-Zumar 39:53-54].

God also said in a Hadeeth Qudsi (a saying of the Prophet Muhammed quoting God): “Allaah says: “Whoever knows that I am able to forgive all sins, I shall forgive him, and I shall not mind, so long as he does not associate anything (in worship) with Me.’” (Reported by al-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer, and by al-Haakim; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 4330).

In another Hadeeth Qudsi, God said:“ ‘O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and put your hope in Me, I will forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, if your sins were to reach the clouds of the sky, and you were to ask me for forgiveness, I will forgive you and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, if you were to come to Me with sins nearly the size of the earth, and you were to meet Me not associating anything with Me, then I would bring you forgiveness nearly the size of (the earth).’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 4338).

The Prophet Mohammed said (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “The one who repents from his sin is like the one who did not sin in the first place.” (Reported by Ibn Maajah; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 3008).

In Islam, repentance is accepted so long as either of two things have not happened: Tthe Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever repents before the death rattle reaches his throat, Allaah will accept it from him” (reported by Ahmad and al-Tirmidhi, Saheeh al-Jaami’, 6132) and “Whoever repents before the sun rises in the West, Allaah will accept his repentance” (reported by Muslim).

One can repent any time before death or before the Sun rises from the west (one of the last major signs before the day of judgement), and his/her repentance will be accepted. But since nobody knows when death will strike or when the sun will rise from the west, that is why Islam encourages hastiness in repenting from sins.

There are four conditions for the acceptance of repentance in Islam:

1. Leaving the sin;
2. Remorse/Regret over having committed the sin;
3. Resolve never to return to the sin;
4. (If it relates to the rights of another person, then to) Return the rights or property one wrongly took.

Thanks for the explanation.

You still have not answered my question.

 

[Hashi_Al-Eritre]

Reuben J:

Thanks for the explanation.

You still have not answered my question.

I think i have. You asked what guarantee is there that you’ll be forgiven, i explained through those narrations that so long as you repent before death and before the sun rises from the west, and so long as you meet those 4 conditions, God will forgive you.

 

[DeExupery]

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but as long as I know, there’s no guarantee that your sin is forgiven by Allah in Islam Teaching…
That’s why moslems ask for Allah’s mercy.
Of course, I relate it with heaven…that heaven depends on Allah’s mercy.

 

[Hashi_Al-Eritre]

I want to make a distinction between what God has guaranteed for the believers and disbelievers and how a Muslim should percieve his/her deeds and actions in this life.

Everyone who believes and does righteous deeds, and dies in this state, will definitely enter Paradise. Everyone who disbelieves and does evil deeds, and dies in this state, will definitely enter Hell.

One of the great guiding principles of Islam is that the believer should tread a path between fear and hope. He should not take it for granted that he will enter Paradise, because this will make him complacent, and he does not know in what state he will die. Nor should he assume that he is going to Hell, because this is despairing of the mercy of Allaah, which is forbidden. So the believer does righteous deeds, and hopes that Allaah will reward him for them, and he avoids evil deeds out of fear of the punishment of Allaah. If he commits a sin, he repents in order to gain forgiveness and protect himself from the punishment of Hell. Allaah forgives all sins and accepts the repentance of those who repent. If a believer fears that the good deeds he has sent on before him are not enough, as you suggest, then he will increase his efforts, in fear and hope. No matter how many righteous deeds he has sent on before him, he cannot rely on them and take them for granted, or else he will be doomed.** He keeps striving and hoping for reward, and at the same time he fears lest his deeds be contaminated with any element of showing off, self-admiration, or anything that will lead to them being rejected by Allaah.** Allaah describes the believers (interpretation of the meaning):

“… those who give that (their charity) which they give (and also do other good deeds) with their hearts full of fear (whether their alms and charity, etc.) have been accepted or not), because they are sure to return to their Lord (for reckoning).” [al-Mu’minoon 23:60]

So the believer keeps on striving, fearing and hoping, until he meets his Lord, believing in Tawheed (Divine Unity) and doing righteous deeds, and earns the pleasure of his Lord and Paradise. If you think about the matter, you will realize that these are the right motives for action, and that righteousness cannot be achieved in this life in any other way.

Taken from Islam-qa (63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=2690&dgn=4)

So God has guaranteed Paradise for believers and those who do righteousness, He has guaranteed forgiveness and mercy for those who repent from their sins, and He has guaranteed punishment and hellfire for those who disbeliever and who do evil.

A Muslim however does not take these guarantees for granted in relation to himself, rather he/she strives continuously to do righteous deeds, to seek forgiveness, and to avoid sins. A Muslim never thinks for one second that he/she is saved and is destined for Paradise, no matter what kind of deeds he/she does, nor does a Muslim ever think for one second that he/she is doomed and is destined for Hellfire, no matter what kind of sins he/she does.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Messenger of Allah said, “The deeds of anyone of you will not save you (from the (Hell) Fire).” They said, “Even you (will not be saved by your deeds), O Messenger of Allah?” He said, “No, even I (will not be saved) unless and until Allah bestows His Mercy on me. Therefore, do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and worship Allah in the forenoon and in the afternoon and during a part of the night, and always adopt a middle, moderate, regular course whereby you will reach your target (Paradise).” [Narrated in Bukhari]

Narrated 'Aisha: The Messenger of Allah said, “Do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately and know that your deeds will not make you enter Paradise, and that the most beloved deed to Allah’s is the most regular and constant even though it were little.” [Narrated in Bukhari]

God said in the Quran: “**And never give up hope of Allah’s Mercy. Certainly, no one despairs of Allah’s Mercy, except the people who disbelieve.” ** [Soorah Yusuf (12): 87]

 

[Reuben_J]

Hashi Al-Eritre:

So God has guaranteed Paradise for believers and those who do righteousness, He has guaranteed forgiveness and mercy for those who repent from their sins, and He has guaranteed punishment and hellfire for those who disbeliever and who do evil.

I’m sorry to ask so many questions from you. But is the above corroborated by any specific verses from the Quran?

 

[Faith101]

Reuben J:

I’m sorry to ask so many questions from you. But is the above corroborated by any specific verses from the Quran?

too many to post here, but below are just a few.

So God has guaranteed Paradise for believers and those who do righteousness

"Allah has promised to the believers -men and women, - Gardens under which rivers flow to dwell therein forever, and beautiful mansions in Gardens of Adn (Eden paradise). But the greatest bliss is the Good Pleasure of Allah. That is the supreme success. (Quran 9:72)

"And remember) the Day when He will gather you (all) on the Day of Gathering, that will be the Day of mutual loss and gain (i.e. loss for the disbelievers as they will enter the Hell-fire and gain for the believers as they will enter paradise). **And whosoever believes in Allah and performs righteous good deeds, He will remit from him his sins, and will admit him to Gardens under which rivers flow (paradise) to dwell therein forever, that will be the great success]. (Quran 64:9)

He has guaranteed forgiveness and mercy for those who repent from their sins

Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! **]Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins/**B]: for He is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (Quran 39:53)

"Those who eschew Evil,- and fall not into its worship,- and turn to Allah (in repentance),- for them is Good News: so announce the Good News to My Servants],-(Quran 39:17)

and He has guaranteed punishment and hellfire for those who disbeliever and who do evil.

COLOR=Blue]Allah has promised the hypocrites; men and women, and the disbelievers, the Fire of hell, therein shall they abide. It will suffice them. Allah has cursed them and for them is the lasting torment. (Quran 9:68)

B]And when Our Clear Verses are recited to them, you will notice a denial on the faces of the disbelievers! They are nearly ready to attack with violence those who recite Our Verses to them. Say: “Shall I tell you of something worse than that? The Fire (of hell) which Allah has promised to those who disbelieve, and worst indeed is that destination]!” (Quran 22:72)**

 

[Faith101]

Reuben J:

How do you reconcile obeying Allah out of love for Him and His punishment? Is fear for His anger and punishment at same level as love for Him the reason for obeying Him?

love is highest and fear and hope are on the same level

What about punishment on earth for spiritual sin? What’s there left of the punishment in thereafter?

can you rephrase the question, i dont understand what u mean

 

[Topher]

I think that my brother and sister Christians in this thread my misunderstand God. We too recognize the Just nature of God. We recognize that he punishes the sinner and despises sin. Our God is boht the God of Justice and the God of Mercy. Those who persisit in sin get justice. Those who live in Christ and his sacraments get mercy. Remember, “The begining of Wisdom is Fear of the Lord”.

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! **]Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins/**B]: for He is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (Quran 39:53)

I think this verse answers my question.

COLOR=Blue]
Allah has promised the hypocrites; men and women, and the disbelievers, the Fire of hell, therein shall they abide.

It will suffice them. Allah has cursed them and for them is the lasting torment. (Quran 9:68)
Disbelievers are punished. and Allah curses them. Then He is to be feared because of these?

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben J:

What about punishment on earth for spiritual sin? What’s there left of the punishment in thereafter?

Faith101:

can you rephrase the question, i dont understand what u mean

Islam metes out punishment for sin committed. e.g. thief or adulterer will be punished physically. blasphemy can be punishable by death.

But these sins are sins against God, so why the punishment here on earth? If sinners are already punished here, what would happen after they die? Will they go to heaven since punishment been served?

 

[Reuben_J]

Topher:

I think that my brother and sister Christians in this thread my misunderstand God. We too recognize the Just nature of God. We recognize that he punishes the sinner and despises sin. Our God is boht the God of Justice and the God of Mercy. Those who persisit in sin get justice. Those who live in Christ and his sacraments get mercy. Remember, “The begining of Wisdom is Fear of the Lord”.

I was thinking there is some materials difference in Islam and Christianity’ understanding of the “Fear of the Lord”. This was mentioned here but not the explanation, so I’m not too sure.

 

[Faith101]

Reuben J:

Islam metes out punishment for sin committed. e.g. thief or adulterer will be punished physically. blasphemy can be punishable by death.

But these sins are sins against God, so why the punishment here on earth? If sinners are already punished here, what would happen after they die? Will they go to heaven since punishment been served?

Firstly, Allah is the Most Just (to everyone, believers and disbelievers)…and no sin will be punished twice. If you recieved punishment on earth for it, you will not be punished again in the hereafter for *that * sin. You will find, however, that the worst of sinners are sometimes left on this earth and given power and money. They have everything they need. Those are the worst of people, because Allah has decided that their punishment will occur in the next life. And the punishment in this life is nothing compared to the one in the next.

Also, all sins can be forgiven (by the mercy of Allah except ONE which is shirk (i.e. believing that God has a parter, son, mother, daughter. worshpping othes with Allah or instead of Allah, etc). And Allah knows best.

And fear the Day when ye shall be brought back to Allah. Then shall every soul be paid what it earned, and **]none shall be dealt with unjustly/**B]. (Chapter #2, Verse #281)

But how (will they fare) when we gather them together against a day about which there is no doubt, and each soul will be paid out just what it has earned, without (favour or) injustice? (Chapter #3, Verse #25)

Adultery, theft and even blasphemy are not solely sins against God. Think about it. All of them are ways to destroy the fabric of society. WHen these things occur frequently, society in general is diseased. Therefore, the punishment for them is severe so as to deter any potential criminals.

 

[Faith101]

Reuben J:

I was thinking there is some materials difference in Islam and Christianity’ understanding of the “Fear of the Lord”. This was mentioned here but not the explanation, so I’m not too sure.

Fearing Allah means that you fear His anger, His punishment, His displeasure. Therfore, you do only what He wants you to do. You say only what you know will please Him. And everything is laid out clearly in the Book of Allah and in the Sunnah of His messenger (peace be upon him)…so that none of us will have an excuse.

What does it mean in Christianity?

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

Firstly, Allah is the Most Just (to everyone, believers and disbelievers)…and no sin will be punished twice. If you recieved punishment on earth for it, you will not be punished again in the hereafter for *that * sin. You will find, however, that the worst of sinners are sometimes left on this earth and given power and money. They have everything they need. Those are the worst of people, because Allah has decided that their punishment will occur in the next life. And the punishment in this life is nothing compared to the one in the next.

Your explanation seems to contradict. i hope you don’t mind elaborating.

If all sins are forgiven (of course after the necessary repentance) then why the earthly punishment. Are offenders given chance to repent and then punishment witheld? I don’t think so, as offenders are punished or fined for sins like close proximity between the opposite sex or eating during the fasting month of Ramadan.

Faith101:

Also, all sins can be forgiven (by the mercy of Allah except ONE which is shirk (i.e. believing that God has a parter, son, mother, daughter. worshpping othes with Allah or instead of Allah, etc). And Allah knows best.

This is the major difference between Islam and Christianity’ teaching. We believe all sins can be forgiven too. No sin that’s too big that cannot be forgiven by God, except for that sin against the Holy Spirit.

Faith101:

Adultery, theft and even blasphemy are not solely sins against God. Think about it. All of them are ways to destroy the fabric of society. WHen these things occur frequently, society in general is diseased. Therefore, the punishment for them is severe so as to deter any potential criminals.

I understand when one sins against God one also sins against man. My problem is how is it possible for man to dish out punishment justly which is God’s alone to decide.

Offenders have been punished because of over enthusiasm by islamic enforcement officers. How can this be fair? (for God).