Christianity or Islam’s Teaching on God?

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

Fearing Allah means that you fear His anger, His punishment, His displeasure. Therfore, you do only what He wants you to do. You say only what you know will please Him. And everything is laid out clearly in the Book of Allah and in the Sunnah of His messenger (peace be upon him)…so that none of us will have an excuse.

This make Him such fearsome God, which justifies my opening statement in this thread.

Faith101:

What does it mean in Christianity?

In Christianity fear of God is also considered very valuable in our spiritual life. We believe that true fear of God is a gift of the Spirit for us, as human on his own is not able to achieve it. But fear of God is not fear of His wrath but rather arise out of our love for Him. We fear the separation from Him through sins, and our fear spurs us to obey His commandments. Similar to Islamic concept on the ends but differ on the means.

The biggest barrier to man’s development of character is our perceived lack of dignity in our human person. People can appear very confident of themselves but inside they are shallow and empty and their souls are restless. The outcome of this is negative character that can be in the form of insecurity and being prone to sin.

God himself can only restore human dignity of a person. In Christianity we believe that we are made in God’s image and derive our dignity from him. Jesus in his coming to earth only reaffirms this so that we can never be orphans – we have our Father in God Himself.

In Christianity all sins can be forgiven (except the sin against the Holy Spirit). This is how we approach God - as a loving Father who forgives our sin. It is for reason that God makes all things right and good that human truly longs for Him.

 

[Faith101]

This make Him such fearsome God, which justifies my opening statement in this thread.

He is God. He should be feared. But also keep in mind the relationship between Allah and His servants…it is an intimate one with no “third parties” or intercessors. He hears our prayers and even tells us that he likes to hear our supplications. Not only that, but He assures us that if we go to Him walking, He’ll come to us running. SubhanAllah, Allah is so Merciful.

You know wht else is interesting. THink about your boss at work, if you dont do something on time…dont you fear the consequences? Honestly, sometimes people put other people on a higher pedestal than God.

In Christianity fear of God is also considered very valuable in our spiritual life. We believe that true fear of God is a gift of the Spirit for us, as human on his own is not able to achieve it. But fear of God is not fear of His wrath but rather arise out of our love for Him. We fear the separation from Him through sins, and our fear spurs us to obey His commandments. Similar to Islamic concept on the ends but differ on the means.

That doesnt sound right. You mean to tell me that you dont fear the punishment of Hell? That you might be in Hell forever? Sounds very different of what many Christians, through normal conversations, have expressed.

Not only do Muslims fear His anger and punishment…but also his displeasure. We want Allah to be pleased with us.

In Christianity all sins can be forgiven (except the sin against the Holy Spirit). This is how we approach God - as a loving Father who forgives our sin. It is for reason that God makes all things right and good that human truly longs for Him

But God will put some people in Hell, to abide therein FOREVER. Where does that concept fit in with your understanding?

 

[Faith101]

QUOTE]If all sins are forgiven (of course after the necessary repentance) then why the earthly punishment

You said it yourself…after repentance. HOw about those who don’t repent? If you repent, and it is accepted, you are forgiven. But Allah chooses to bring closer to Him who HE pleases. For example, there is a man who is bad (lets say your normal party animal, doesnt have a purpose in life, etc) maybe Allah will cause him to have a horrible accident, which will make him THINK about his purpose in life and mend His ways.

Also, like I said before, the punishments are primarily there to discourage people to do certain things. Islam is set up so that there is some sort of justice on this earth, and that society is protected.

Are offenders given chance to repent and then punishment witheld? I don’t think so, as offenders are punished or fined for sins like close proximity between the opposite sex or eating during the fasting month of Ramadan.

I believe that the punishment for eating in Ramadan is that you fast for 2 consecutive months. Thats between you and Allah

As for the other example you gave…again its for the health of society.

This is the major difference between Islam and Christianity’ teaching. We believe all sins can be forgiven too. No sin that’s too big that cannot be forgiven by God, except for that sin against the Holy Spirit.

What is the difference? THere are exceptions in both

We believe all sins can be forgiven EXCEPT shirk (associating partners with Allah)

and you believe all sins can be forgiven EXCEPT if you sin against the Holy Spirit.

I understand when one sins against God one also sins against man. My problem is how is it possible for man to dish out punishment justly which is God’s alone to decide.

Good question. And that is precisely why there shouldnt be separation of church and state. In Islam, Allah is the law maker…and the punishments set for these people are the punishments ALLAH HAS DECREED FOR THEM

Are you proposing that we not punish anyone for any crime? Should we dismantle the whole court system?

Offenders have been punished because of over enthusiasm by islamic enforcement officers. How can this be fair? (for God).

Yes some of my own family members have been put in prisons in “muslim” countries for praying too much (seriously)…is this fair…no way. But these are tests for us…do they get arrested and give up on Islam…or do they stand up for what they believe in no matter what the consequences. Ponder these verses in the Quran

**Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere], (Chapter #2, Verse #155)

**
Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return. (Chapter #21, Verse #35)

And We shall try you until We test those among you who strive their utmost and persevere in patience; and We shall try your reported (mettle). (Chapter #47, Verse #31)**

I realize your question is so much bigger and complex than I had originally thought. In my head, it is clear…but i may not be doing the best job at explaining. If something is still not clear to you, please ask questions…but break them up and we can go step by step inshAllah.**

 

[Faith101]

This make Him such fearsome God, which justifies my opening statement in this thread.

In Christianity fear of God is also considered very valuable in our spiritual life. We believe that true fear of God is a gift of the Spirit for us, as human on his own is not able to achieve it. But fear of God is not fear of His wrath but rather arise out of our love for Him. We fear the separation from Him through sins, and our fear spurs us to obey His commandments. Similar to Islamic concept on the ends but differ on the means.

Reuben

I searched more into this topic of fear to understand the Christians’ perspective, and I found this. Clearly it says fear God because HE can put you into Hell…what is your understanding of this verse?

Luke 12:5

"But I will show you whom you should fear: **Fear him ** who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."

 

[Faith101]

bump

Reuben dont forget about this thread! I’m interested in hearing your perspective.

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

He is God. He should be feared. But also keep in mind the relationship between Allah and His servants…it is an intimate one with no “third parties” or intercessors. He hears our prayers and even tells us that he likes to hear our supplications. Not only that, but He assures us that if we go to Him walking, He’ll come to us running. SubhanAllah, Allah is so Merciful.

You know wht else is interesting. THink about your boss at work, if you dont do something on time…dont you fear the consequences? Honestly, sometimes people put other people on a higher pedestal than God.

That doesnt sound right. You mean to tell me that you dont fear the punishment of Hell? That you might be in Hell forever? Sounds very different of what many Christians, through normal conversations, have expressed.

We believe in intercessors as the whole church is one family of God (to put it simply). But ultimately it’s God who makes the decision. Because we believe God is like a father to his children, sometimes He would give in if the child persuade hard enough. Of course his decision will be in accordance to the principle of His will. Christians are confident of appraoching God because of this belief.

Yes, we believe the consequence of our deeds. it’s not so much as punishment but when we sin we are separated from God and are on our own. On our own we are led to the road of self destruction. (punishment).

Basically as I said Christianity and Islam are about similar on this issue. It’s the focus that’s difference. You fear God because of punishment and want to please Him. We fear God about just the same thing too. But for Christians who know God better, especially those who have experienced the tangible love of God (this is another topic) know that they fear God because they don’t want to be separated from him thorugh sin. They perpetually want to experience His love.

.

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

You said it yourself…after repentance. HOw about those who don’t repent? If you repent, and it is accepted, you are forgiven. But Allah chooses to bring closer to Him who HE pleases. For example, there is a man who is bad (lets say your normal party animal, doesnt have a purpose in life, etc) maybe Allah will cause him to have a horrible accident, which will make him THINK about his purpose in life and mend His ways.

Also, like I said before, the punishments are primarily there to discourage people to do certain things. Islam is set up so that there is some sort of justice on this earth, and that society is protected.

If you repent accordingly fro the sins committed, you are forgiven. In Christian too. and in Islam too. Thus I agree with Hashi on this.

I don’t quite understand on the example you’ve given about the horrible accident … if you could rephrase it.

I have been questioning the Islam’s practice of of giving punishment for “spiritual” sin. I think this is between Allah and the person concerned and so how could man (and woman) take over that function? beside even if they do, they can never match the fairness of Allah Himself. Suppose if they make mistake in their decision in giving the punishment, like wrong evidents, etc…

The objective to prevent people from sinning is noble. But can we? Some people may be holy outwardly, but knows the inside? Beside some of the Islam’s punishment would cause scar on the convict for the rest of his life.

And what about if it is a capital punishment?

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

Reuben

I searched more into this topic of fear to understand the Christians’ perspective, and I found this. Clearly it says fear God because HE can put you into Hell…what is your understanding of this verse?

Luke 12:5

"But I will show you whom you should fear: **Fear him **

who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."

You know what, my bible knowledge on this is a bit rusty. I’m a bit hurry now otherwise I will give you more appropriate comment on this. Other Catholics here might expound on this better I guess.

At this momment, let say that this verse is a continuation of Jesus’ warning against the Pharisee’s false doctrine (the yeast of Pharisee). If the Jews followed their teachings and ways, they might go to hell. Thus, this is to be fear because it will lead them to hell. If someone kill the body, it’s not too bad (one still have chance to go to heaven), but worse is the eternal hell (by living a false teaching).

Dear Faith, if some of my posts are not well written, i hope you’ll forgive me. Sometimes I really have to slip in time for the internet.

God bless.

 

[Faith101]

I have been questioning the Islam’s practice of of giving punishment for “spiritual” sin. I think this is between Allah and the person concerned and so how could man (and woman) take over that function? beside even if they do, they can never match the fairness of Allah Himself. Suppose if they make mistake in their decision in giving the punishment, like wrong evidents, etc…

The sins that you mentioned being “spiritual” are not solely that. I explained how they effect the fabric of society and serve only to pollute it. Please give me another example of a “spirtual sin”

The objective to prevent people from sinning is noble. But can we?

No, we can’t. But we can prevent them from polluting the society that we live in. If the USA cut off every single thiefs hand, how many robberies would there be? Much less.

Some people may be holy outwardly, but knows the inside?

I think you may have misunderstood somethings I have said. The laws are not implemented to correct the insides of people. Only Allah knows what is in your heart and only He can judge you accordingly.

Beside some of the Islam’s punishment would cause scar on the convict for the rest of his life.

Yes, it may. Again, they would have seen the punishment in either case. It is better for them that they were given it in this life and not the next.

Reuben, are you saying that we should dismantle the court system in the USA? Being that unfairness may happen (innocent person jailed for example) and that the criminal will be left with scars?

Didn’t God reveal laws and regulations similiar to these to Moses, peace be upon him. Was God being unjust at that time?

And what about if it is a capital punishment?

Then they die.

If you keep in mind that Allah is the Most Just (both to those who reject Him and those who obey Him) and that no sin will be punished twice…then honestly, you wouldnt be having trouble being at ease with the concept of punishment.

 

[Faith101]

Reuben J:

Faith101:

You know what, my bible knowledge on this is a bit rusty. I’m a bit hurry now otherwise I will give you more appropriate comment on this. Other Catholics here might expound on this better I guess.

At this momment, let say that this verse is a continuation of Jesus’ warning against the Pharisee’s false doctrine (the yeast of Pharisee). If the Jews followed their teachings and ways, they might go to hell. Thus, this is to be fear because it will lead them to hell. If someone kill the body, it’s not too bad (one still have chance to go to heaven), but worse is the eternal hell (by living a false teaching).

Dear Faith, if some of my posts are not well written, i hope you’ll forgive me. Sometimes I really have to slip in time for the internet.

God bless.

I know time is flying. Take your time, I’ll be waiting for your response inshAllah.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

I discuss with one of our brother Gonzales, and he said apostasy in islam means death.
I wonder what is your justification on that.
In my logic, if someone apostates and then he is killed, he has Earth punishment, and in Islam I am sure he goes to hell as well.
Is it fair?

And I ask you one thing, if you fear someone, can you love someone? Love and fear cannot go on. Fear should only be THE FIRST STEP TO knowledge of God. But the advance step should be love. Can you love skiing and fear of skiing at the same time?

Fox

 

[Darrel]

The Old Testament God of wrath is viewed by people as a scary God of Punishment. Yet we know that Jesus said two things. “Before the world was I was.” and “He who has seen me has seen the Father.”

I think that Christianity and Islam can agree that the wages of sin is death. Another thing we know is that God is the same yesterday today and forever. So why was God the God of punishment in the OT yet Jesus preached love and forgiveness? It’s simple, God was not the God of Punishment in the OT. God was just as loving then as he is now. Yet under the law the price of sin had to be a very high one because God is a just God.

He was so loving that he sent his son to die in our place. Yet in Islam God is still viewed as this God of anger and wrath because they do not understand the true nature of God the Father. To know the true nature of the Father we must look to the Son. God is not the God of stonings and chopped off hands. He is the God of truth love and forgiveness. But how can Islam see the Father this way without the Son? They must stick to the law of the prophet Muhammad. Which shows God in a way that reverses his true nature away from love. In the words of God himself “let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone.” Why would a just God want us to carry out brutal acts against one another? I can’t imagine the God of all creation wanting us to use fear tactics to control the masses. Mercy and love are far superior to fear and brutality. Islam and Christianity also agree that God is far superior.

-D

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

The sins that you mentioned being “spiritual” are not solely that. I explained how they effect the fabric of society and serve only to pollute it. Please give me another example of a “spirtual sin”.

I can understand. if this is Islam’ position I will not argue on this anymore.

Faith101:

No, we can’t. But we can prevent them from polluting the society that we live in. If the USA cut off every single thiefs hand, how many robberies would there be? Much less…

Seem very cruel in today’s societies. Beside there is no evidence that it such punishment can be effective deterrence to such crime. We know today that many alternative punishment can be just as effective without being inhuman.

Faith101:

I think you may have misunderstood somethings I have said. The laws are not implemented to correct the insides of people. Only Allah knows what is in your heart and only He can judge you accordingly. .

That’s exactly my problem with such laws.

Faith101:

Yes, it may. Again, they would have seen the punishment in either case. It is better for them that they were given it in this life and not the next.

Reuben, are you saying that we should dismantle the court system in the USA? Being that unfairness may happen (innocent person jailed for example) and that the criminal will be left with scars?

Didn’t God reveal laws and regulations similiar to these to Moses, peace be upon him. Was God being unjust at that time? .

The court system is not perfect no matter how much effort we try to make it perfect. But God is perfect. Thus what is perfect cannot be left to the humans who are not.

Faith101:

Then they die.

If you keep in mind that Allah is the Most Just (both to those who reject Him and those who obey Him) and that no sin will be punished twice…then honestly, you wouldnt be having trouble being at ease with the concept of punishment.

Faith, are you sure this is the consensus of Muslims thought on this issue?

A sinner who deserves punishment by death on earth, he/she will go to heaven?

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

Reuben

I searched more into this topic of fear to understand the Christians’ perspective, and I found this. Clearly it says fear God because HE can put you into Hell…what is your understanding of this verse?

Luke 12:5

"But I will show you whom you should fear: **Fear him **

who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."

Yes, the context here is that Jesus has the power to throw sinners to hell. It answers your question I think.

But rather Jesus was making reference to the end of days when he would return as King. The King will be a judge. He likened at the end of days humans will be like sheeps and goats to be separated by the King. The sheeps will go to heaven because they had done to the least (the poor, the naked, the hungry) who are His brethrens. The goats are those who did not assist them.

Here’s a fine distinction regarding Christianity understanding of God, is that He is a loving God. He is like a father who loves his children or a shepherd who heals the sick and bandages his sheeps’ wounds. Who if needs be, even gives Hhis own life to save His sheeps or friends.

This is the difference: in how you would approach Allah. It is always that fear - He is the master and you are the slave. Christian too can be slave to God, but it’s the master who would treat the slave with love.

Christians see God as their friend too. As a brother. As a king, but a servant King.

 

[Faith101]

Here’s a fine distinction regarding Christianity understanding of God, is that He is a loving God. He is like a father who loves his children or a shepherd who heals the sick and bandages his sheeps’ wounds. Who if needs be, even gives Hhis own life to save His sheeps or friends.

Reuben, you had previously claimed that Christians dont fear God out of going to Hell, the Bible says otherwise. Now, you are saying somethign about Islam that is not true.

This is the difference: in how you would approach Allah. It is always that fear - He is the master and you are the slave. Christian too can be slave to God, but it’s the master who would treat the slave with love.

Reuben, I am a Muslim. How do you believe that you have the right to tell me how I should feel toward my Creator? Please, may God guide you, don’t be sucked into the misconceptions that people have about Islam.

Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah.: They love them as they should love Allah). B]But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah]. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty. (Quran 2:165)

It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing. (Chapter #2, Verse #177)

So We listened to him: and We granted him Yahya: We cured his wife’s (Barrenness) for him. These (three) were ever quick in emulation in good works; they used to call on Us with love and reverence, and humble themselves before Us. (Chapter #21, Verse #90)

This is the Quran, there is more proof from the Sunnah, inshAllah i will search to get the exact ahadith later.

In short, Muslims LOVE Allah and Allah (as stated in the Quran many many times) loves His righteous servants.

 

[Faith101]

Dear Faith,

I discuss with one of our brother Gonzales, and he said apostasy in islam means death.
I wonder what is your justification on that.
In my logic, if someone apostates and then he is killed, he has Earth punishment, and in Islam I am sure he goes to hell as well.
Is it fair?

Good question. InshAllah, I will get to it later. But for now, you can think about it like this. Someone is harrassing/killing people simply because those people believe in God…the people go to war with the oppressors, the oppressors are killed. They go to hell. Is it fair (punishment in this life and the next?)

And I ask you one thing, if you fear someone, can you love someone? Love and fear cannot go on. Fear should only be THE FIRST STEP TO knowledge of God. But the advance step should be love. Can you love skiing and fear of skiing at the same time?

Fox

Interesting question. First, love is the highest of all three feelings that a Muslim associate with their Lord (the other two being fear and hope). That said, I’ll use your example to explain.

You love skiing, but you also know that if you dont follow the skiing rules, you might fall and hurt yourself, correct? So you FEAR the consequences of what skiing can lead to if you dont do everything correctly as you are supposed to (i dont know how to ski, so i cant give you a specific example of not following one of the skiing rulees, but i hope you get the point).

Another example. You love Math class. You have a test coming up tomorrow but also your best friend’s big birthday party. Your love for Math class may not be enough to skip out on your friends party, but then you fear the consequences of not doing well on the test, so you study. These arent the best examples, but I do hope you get understand.

Sum up: love and fear do exist at hte same time in many things in our lives. It really does make sense, i may be doing a horrible job explaining. But any case, Christians as well as Muslims should fear God…and not let the devil let us think otherwise.

 

[Faith101]

color=black]He was so loving that he sent his son to die in our place. Yet in Islam God is still viewed as this God of anger and wrath because they do not understand the true nature of God the Father

Darrel, God’s punishment/wrath exists. The verse that I quoted was from Luke, I believe that is part of the NEW Testament.

If you are saying that Muslims fear God, then I will tell you YES THEY DO, and so should you. If you are saying that Muslims view God only as “the punisher” and nothing else…than I will ask you one thing: PROVE IT.

To know the true nature of the Father we must look to the Son. God is not the God of stonings and chopped off hands. He is the God of truth love and forgiveness. But how can Islam see the Father this way without the Son? They must stick to the law of the prophet Muhammad. Which shows God in a way that reverses his true nature away from love. In the words of God himself “let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone.” Why would a just God want us to carry out brutal acts against one another? I can’t imagine the God of all creation wanting us to use fear tactics to control the masses. Mercy and love are far superior to fear and brutality. Islam and Christianity also agree that God is far superior.

1. the verse that you quoted was shown to be added by later “scholars” and did not originate from Jesus himself.

religioustolerance.org/john_8.htm

1. About obeying the laws of God, if someone had asked Jesus what they can do to have eternal life (ie paradise) what would he have said? He wuold have said, as quoted in the Bible “OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”
2. Do you believe that Hell exists? Or is everyone going to be forgiven and lovingly ushered into Paradise? What will happen to those that spent their lives denying the truth and transgressing?

Fear GOD in what you say and do not invent things about Him just to fit in with your preception of what God should be.

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

Good question. InshAllah, I will get to it later. But for now, you can think about it like this. Someone is harrassing/killing people simply because those people believe in God…the people go to war with the oppressors, the oppressors are killed. They go to hell. Is it fair (punishment in this life and the next?)

I believe, life is not about war. In war, there’s killing, and killing cannot be justified. History tends to favor the winner, that’s why usually history whitewashes the winner. I hope you have already know that history is subjective.
Here we are talking about the situation not at war. In Islam, apostates are killed.

You love skiing, but you also know that if you dont follow the skiing rules, you might fall and hurt yourself, correct? So you FEAR the consequences of what skiing can lead to if you dont do everything correctly as you are supposed to (i dont know how to ski, so i cant give you a specific example of not following one of the skiing rulees, but i hope you get the point).

my dear sis Faith, love and fear are two motivators for someone to act. Fear of being punished, fear of being killed, etc.
Let us stick to the skiing example. A child can go to ski if his/her parents punish him/her if he can’t ski. Of course he will learn, he will tremble…but he does what his/her parents want.
A child also can go to ski if he love skiing, without anyone telling him/her to do, without having fear of punishment.
Which one do you think better?

Only people with disturbed psychology can love and fear with the same intensity. Usually, love and fear must contradict each other and sometimes love wins, sometimes fear wins.

I believe, that God should be worshipped with love, more than with fear. Fear shows surpression, subjugation, and it’s not honest. Many people pretend to like their boss and do what the boss want. Do you think that’s what God want? People who love Him because He can make them miserable? Remember, He is all knowing and He can see people’s heart, unlike our worldy boss.

But what about love? People who go worship Him with love, with smile, and sing and rejoice? And do what He wants because they love to do so?

Have a very nice day!

Fox

 

[Darrel]

Faith101:

Darrel, God’s punishment/wrath exists. The verse that I quoted was from Luke, I believe that is part of the NEW Testament.

If you are saying that Muslims fear God, then I will tell you YES THEY DO, and so should you. If you are saying that Muslims view God only as “the punisher” and nothing else…than I will ask you one thing: PROVE IT.

Yes Gods wrath exists, but it is not his only trait nor is it his formost trait. He showed us this by becoming flesh and showing us how to love and forgive each other. “Fear” of God is reverence of God which causes respect and obediance. He never asked us to be curled up in the fetal positition in a corner in a state of terror. I would however feel this way if I were a thief in Iran. As for proving that I think Islam views God as the punisher, those are your words not mine. But punishment is a fundamental piece in Islam, and causing fear in the masses is the tool you attest that God said to use. The tree is known by it’s fruit. Fear and terror exist in Islam from it’s laws of brutality to the world trade center. It is all about fear.

Faith101:

1. the verse that you quoted was shown to be added by later “scholars” and did not originate from Jesus himself.

religioustolerance.org/john_8.htm

I have no interest in entertaining this argument. Christ’s teachings are perfect. They are deviod of male ego and hate. Can we say this about Muhammed? I think we can’t. Try John 3:16 if you feel the other verse is tampered with. Then again I think you believe the whole bible is false… correct?

Faith101:

1. About obeying the laws of God, if someone had asked Jesus what they can do to have eternal life (ie paradise) what would he have said? He wuold have said, as quoted in the Bible “OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”

I agree,

Here they are from God himself.

Matt 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(KJV)

Faith101:

1. Do you believe that Hell exists? Or is everyone going to be forgiven and lovingly ushered into Paradise? What will happen to those that spent their lives denying the truth and transgressing?

Yes I do believe hell exists. I do not believe the ticket out of hell comes from Islamic law enforcement. It is through salvation that can be attained through the blood of Christ. Do you believe that love is weak? Where love is there is no need of fear.

Fear GOD in what you say and do not invent things about Him just to fit in with your preception of what God should be.

Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. I invent nothing and I am open to Jesus who is truth.

Also,

Faith101:

NEW
YES THEY DO
PROVE IT
OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS
GOD

This all caps thing is seriously not polite and cordial in a civil debate.

-D

 

[Faith101]

Yes Gods wrath exists, but it is not his only trait nor is it his formost trait.

Agreed. Proof that it is not his formost trait:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "When Allah had finished His creation, He wrote over his throne: ‘My mercy preceded My Anger.’ (bukhari Book #93, Hadith #518)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, "When Allah completed the creation, He wrote in His Book which is with Him on His throne, “My mercy overpowers My Anger.” (bukhari Book #54, Hadith #416)

proof that its not His only trait (the 99 names of Allah)

dawateislami.net/general/devotions/99names/

I would however feel this way if I were a thief in Iran. As for proving that I think Islam views God as the punisher, those are your words not mine. But punishment is a fundamental piece in Islam, and causing fear in the masses is the tool you attest that God said to use. The tree is known by it’s fruit. Fear and terror exist in Islam from it’s laws of brutality to the world trade center

. It is all about fear.

May God guide you. Empty words with no proof.

This is where our discussion ends. To you, your reliigon. And to me, mine