"Christianity Today" magazine - is Protestantism an empty faith?

[Stephen_Korsman]

Hi all

Last week the Manhattan Declaration people gave away 6-month free subscriptions of Christianity Today magazine. CT is a publication by Evangelical Protestants, and quite an important one at that. I subscribed and spent most of the weekend going through the past editions, reading a huge number of articles.

I noticed a few trends in their thought, but I also noticed a strong negative feeling developing within me.

My gut reaction to other religions is not scientific, but to me, Islam, Buddhism, Mormonism, and Jehovah’s Witnessism all seem bleak and dead and hopeless. Protestantism seemed, until now, to be a living faith, albeit incomplete, but alive and biblical. Orthodoxy seems to be a living, vibrant faith, with depth and breadth, living the fullness of the faith in some degree of isolation. Catholicism seems to have the fullness of the faith, alive, vibrant, a complete body of complex truth, a beautiful expression of God’s love, complex in so many ways that none of us is likely to experience it all in our short lifetimes.

CT magazine, over the years, shows a move from being hesitant about Catholicism to being somewhat more amicable, to the extent of acknowledging that Catholicism can share in Evangelicalism. It acknowledges (often without explicitly stating) that Catholicism is Christian. They seem to think that the Eastern Orthodox is the best thing to come along since Martin Luther, although they wonder if the Orthodox are truly Evangelical. While acknowledging occasionally that the Orthodox and Catholics share similar tendencies, they are more open to the Orthodox and seem to play down the significant differences between Orthodoxy and Protestantism. The Orthodox interviewed and discussed can hardly be thinking “We are just like you, except we speak Greek”, even though CT seems to rejoice in the idea that some Evangelicals try to be like Orthodoxy, except without the Greek. The Protestants who have adopted Orthodox practices get a “Wow, how wonderful” - e.g. Divine Liturgy without any concept of the Real Presence. Protestants discover the Church Fathers and either convert or, like CT, says “Wow, what nice ideas and what an interesting approach.”

On the whole, CT seems to be a magazine that tries to be nice to all sides (including Catholics) and not upset anyone. Maybe I am not differentiating between a) political correctness and b) adequate understanding leading to lack of condemnation of Catholicism as was the case in the past. Certainly the comments on Catholicism-related articles are as vitriolic as ever - anti-Catholicism is alive and well amongst their readers.

Aside from those anomalies, a sense of gloominess arose in me. On my subjective scale, Protestantism moved down into a bleak, dead, colourless religion. Their faith is in Christ, and I acknowledge that the Catholic Church considers them to be real Christians and that the Holy Spirit can work through them, but Protestantism seems bleak and empty and dead after this weekend. There is a clear lack of authority, a lack of ability to decide what is biblical and what is not - adult vs infant baptism, pouring or full immersion, etc etc etc etc. I knew this all along, but now it just seems more of a pervasive rot than a simple limitation. I always thought that yes, maybe we can learn something from Protestants, especially maybe the Evangelicals, but now I see nothing to learn. The fundamentalist, with his view that he is the sole interpreter of the Bible (his ultimate position, even if not explicitly stated) seems to have a faith more alive than this. They do have the core essence of the faith, but everything they seem to do to bring it to life is lifeless. I now understand better what we mean when we say we have the fullness of the faith - and am so much more grateful for what we have as Catholics.

Am I just having a bad experience, overloaded with too much reading, or have I seen the empty side of Protestantism that I never saw before?

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Frankly, I don’t think there is anything the Protestant/Evangelicals can teach us about the Faith, but there is much they can teach us about how to Evangelize! Everyone in my family of 8 brothers and sisters converted to Evangelicalism, along with my mother, her sister, and all of their formerly Catholic spouses back in the 70’s. Now they all have full grown evangelical children of their own who are not baptized, yet feel more Christian than the Pope! But what they all do is visit other countries building churches, teaching bible study etc. They start doing this right after high school. They don’t have to actually know anything, they just spread their “brand” throughout the world, i.e. Central America, Philippines, Cuba, anywhere they can get a foothold, and evangelize.

Small victory this summer. One nephew was compelled to be baptized in Greek Orthodox Church before he could plan to marry his Greek girl friend. Hopefully it will be fruitful.

 

[Thinkingaloud]

Hi all

Last week the Manhattan Declaration people gave away 6-month free subscriptions of Christianity Today magazine. CT is a publication by Evangelical Protestants, and quite an important one at that. I subscribed and spent most of the weekend going through the past editions, reading a huge number of articles.

I noticed a few trends in their thought, but I also noticed a strong negative feeling developing within me.

My gut reaction to other religions is not scientific, but to me, Islam, Buddhism, Mormonism, and Jehovah’s Witnessism all seem bleak and dead and hopeless. Protestantism seemed, until now, to be a living faith, albeit incomplete, but alive and biblical. Orthodoxy seems to be a living, vibrant faith, with depth and breadth, living the fullness of the faith in some degree of isolation. Catholicism seems to have the fullness of the faith, alive, vibrant, a complete body of complex truth, a beautiful expression of God’s love, complex in so many ways that none of us is likely to experience it all in our short lifetimes.

CT magazine, over the years, shows a move from being hesitant about Catholicism to being somewhat more amicable, to the extent of acknowledging that Catholicism can share in Evangelicalism. It acknowledges (often without explicitly stating) that Catholicism is Christian. They seem to think that the Eastern Orthodox is the best thing to come along since Martin Luther, although they wonder if the Orthodox are truly Evangelical. While acknowledging occasionally that the Orthodox and Catholics share similar tendencies, they are more open to the Orthodox and seem to play down the significant differences between Orthodoxy and Protestantism. The Orthodox interviewed and discussed can hardly be thinking “We are just like you, except we speak Greek”, even though CT seems to rejoice in the idea that some Evangelicals try to be like Orthodoxy, except without the Greek. The Protestants who have adopted Orthodox practices get a “Wow, how wonderful” - e.g. Divine Liturgy without any concept of the Real Presence. Protestants discover the Church Fathers and either convert or, like CT, says “Wow, what nice ideas and what an interesting approach.”

On the whole, CT seems to be a magazine that tries to be nice to all sides (including Catholics) and not upset anyone. Maybe I am not differentiating between a) political correctness and b) adequate understanding leading to lack of condemnation of Catholicism as was the case in the past. Certainly the comments on Catholicism-related articles are as vitriolic as ever - anti-Catholicism is alive and well amongst their readers.

Aside from those anomalies, a sense of gloominess arose in me. On my subjective scale, Protestantism moved down into a bleak, dead, colourless religion. Their faith is in Christ, and I acknowledge that the Catholic Church considers them to be real Christians and that the Holy Spirit can work through them, but Protestantism seems bleak and empty and dead after this weekend. There is a clear lack of authority, a lack of ability to decide what is biblical and what is not - adult vs infant baptism, pouring or full immersion, etc etc etc etc. I knew this all along, but now it just seems more of a pervasive rot than a simple limitation. I always thought that yes, maybe we can learn something from Protestants, especially maybe the Evangelicals, but now I see nothing to learn. The fundamentalist, with his view that he is the sole interpreter of the Bible (his ultimate position, even if not explicitly stated) seems to have a faith more alive than this. They do have the core essence of the faith, but everything they seem to do to bring it to life is lifeless. I now understand better what we mean when we say we have the fullness of the faith - and am so much more grateful for what we have as Catholics.

Am I just having a bad experience, overloaded with too much reading, or have I seen the empty side of Protestantism that I never saw before?

Very interesting comments there. I certainly think there has been a paradigm shift I evangelicalism. Traditional evangelicalism, whether Arminian, Calvinist, paedo or credo Baptist had at heart a strong doctrinal belief and an active outworking of that faith. Now evangelicals have become wishy washy in their doctrine and yet still trying to workout their faith in the world. Evangelical bible colleges have move from a doctrinal focus to a practical focus but there is only so practicality when the roots have been undermined. There also is a lack of concern about history among many evangelicals and you can’t understand your own tradition unless you understand the history of why it arose in the first place. Evangelical Protestantism has one thing, and one thing only - substance of the faith since it has on the whole dispensed with outward symbols and traditions. If therefore evangelicalism loses this doctrinal substance then it has nothing

 

[commenter]

Very interesting comments there. I certainly think there has been a paradigm shift I evangelicalism. Traditional evangelicalism, whether Arminian, Calvinist, paedo or credo Baptist had at heart a strong doctrinal belief and an active outworking of that faith. Now evangelicals have become wishy washy in their doctrine and yet still trying to workout their faith in the world. Evangelical bible colleges have move from a doctrinal focus to a practical focus but there is only so practicality when the roots have been undermined. There also is a lack of concern about history among many evangelicals and you can’t understand your own tradition unless you understand the history of why it arose in the first place. Evangelical Protestantism has one thing, and one thing only - substance of the faith since it has on the whole dispensed with outward symbols and traditions. If therefore evangelicalism loses this doctrinal substance then it has nothing

True. In my area, people are flocking to non-denominational churches, where there is little doctrine, what I call “evangelical lite”. This is consistent with TV preachers, who concentrate on “everyone should take time to listen to their kids”, and “don’t let your work life interfere with your marriage”, etc, etc. No one could disagree with any one statement in their Hallmark theology, but there is no specifically Christian foundation. It does not give any help to young people who need to hold their faith in a hostile culture; as long as I’m being friendly, and I am a good family person, that’s enough.
I think this is consistent with what Newman predicted of Protestantism.

 

[Cat]

I am a convert to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism, I was a member of churches with pastors who currently write articles for Christianity Today.

I’m also a long-time subscriber to Christianity Today.

Yes, I’ve noticed the shift towards acceptance of Catholicism in CT. This came about in large part due to columnist Charles (Chuck) Colson, who with Father Richard John Neuhaus, founded Evangelicals and Catholics Together.

Colson’s book, Being the Body, was one of the top five reasons why I decided to convert to Catholicism. That Baptist did a pretty good job of defending Catholicism! I’m certain that his influence in the editorial room was strong.

Another CT editor who made and makes a strong case for Catholicism is Philip Yancey, who wrote a wonderful book called Soul Survivor–How My Faith Survived the Church. In this book, he pays tribute to the Christians who have helped him to stay in the Christian faith, including G.K. Chesterton, In other books, Yancey has acknowledged the faith and contribution of great Catholic saints.

Billy Graham was the founder of CT, and he has always been accepting of Catholics as Christians, and during his crusades, would refer Catholics who came forward to a Catholic parish rather than trying to persuade them to become Protestant.

Finally, I believe that CT has become “Catholic-friendly” because of the untiring stand of the Catholic Church against abortion.

I don’t blame you for becoming discouraged about the usefulness of Protestantism, including Evangelical Protestantism. After all, I and my husband (and also our daughter) left after many years of hard work and devotion to our churches.

However, I would urge you to make friends with real-life Evangelical Protestants, not just the people who are writing for CT. You will discover that many of these Christians, no matter what happens, hold onto Jesus Christ. That’s what my husband and I did after we were kicked out of our Evangelical Free church–yes, we were kicked out by a tribunal of strangers convened for the purpose of kicking us out!

But we didn’t let go of Jesus. We cast off many of the Evangelical teachings, especially sola Scriptura. But not Jesus. He was the Only One that I trusted for a long time.

I believe you will find many Evangelical Protestants with that same fierce love and devotion for Jesus. Many Evangelical Protestants have been through devastating church wars and have seen church after beloved church split, often for apparently silly reasons (e.g. people can’t agree on what kind of music the choir should sing). Often Evangelical Protestants have seen dear friends and relatives walk away from the church, the Bible, and God Himself, and they have wondered, “Is this Christianity really true?”

But many Evangelicals cling like children to Jesus and trust Him with all their hearts to save them and get them to heaven, no matter if their whole life seems to be falling apart.

I think that devotion to Jesus is good for Catholics to see,

 

[Patti_M]

When I read your post the first thing I thought was “these people will do or say anything to keep from acknowledging that the Catholic Church has been right throughout the centuries.” It is sad but that’s the way it is. Living in a very anticatholic area of our country I can tell you that most protestants here would rather shake hands with the devil himself than admit the CC is the one true church. Another thing that came to mind “what will they say when they find out that instead of the Pope, the Orthodox have a patriarch?” I don’t think they will go for that either.:sad_yes:

 

[catanswer]

Am I just having a bad experience, overloaded with too much reading, or have I seen the empty side of Protestantism that I never saw before?

no it isyou-- justhaveing a badexperience–

last sunday – the priest doing the homily once again – brought up the complaint that most people found the mass-- boring–

but then he said that later that week-- when i went into the little chapel-- that he found it full of young students from Steubenville Ohio – who were in the worship mode of the host…

he said it was refreshing to find some catholic youth-- involved-- in their retreat

 

[Cat]

When I read your post the first thing I thought was “these people will do or say anything to keep from acknowledging that the Catholic Church has been right throughout the centuries.” It is sad but that’s the way it is. Living in a very anticatholic area of our country I can tell you that most protestants here would rather shake hands with the devil himself than admit the CC is the one true church. Another thing that came to mind “what will they say when they find out that instead of the Pope, the Orthodox have a patriarch?” I don’t think they will go for that either.:sad_yes:

It might be better strategy to try to start simpler, and get Protestants to first accept the Catholic Church as a truly Christian church instead as the “One True Church of Jesus Christ.”.

That seems to be what the Holy Spirit is doing in recent days. I can remember when Christianity Today wouldn’t dare include any pro-Catholic articles or commentary. Now it’s regularly done in every issue. We’re getting there!

The best way to help Protestants to accept the Catholic Church as a truly Christian church is to (1) live righteous, holy lives (2) keep up the pro-life fight! (3) read and know the Bible and (4) talk about Jesus more than “Mass” (because Protestants don’t understand the Mass, but they do love Jesus).

 

[AbideWithMe]

On the whole, CT seems to be a magazine that tries to be nice to all sides (including Catholics) and not upset anyone. Maybe I am not differentiating between a) political correctness and b) adequate understanding leading to lack of condemnation of Catholicism as was the case in the past.

Am I just having a bad experience, overloaded with too much reading, or have I seen the empty side of Protestantism that I never saw before?

I’m an Evangelical Christian, Stephen. Evangelicals aren’t without our own pile of problems, but, no, our faith is not lifeless. I’d guess you overloaded yourself with reading, especially if close relationships with Evangelical Christians aren’t part of your everyday life. I know, in real life, many Catholics but very, very few devout ones, and too much reading about Catholicism leaves me with a sense of ennui that I don’t get from real life Catholics.

I agree with Cat’s posts.

Above, I’d say it’s “b” rather than “a”.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I have known many protestant Christians who are definitely filled with Christ’s love and know what it is to be a Christian and they definitely are an example of a living Christian faith - not an empty one. I don’t think Protestantism has the fullness of the faith like Catholicism, but I don’t see it as empty.

last night I happened to watch Nik Wallenda do his skywalk across the grand canyon and since he prayed with Joel Osteen before he went out on the wire I assume he is a protestant. I was very impressed at Nik praying out loud as he walked out on the wire and his Christian faith. this morning I was thinking that our daily walk is like Nik going out on the tightrope. he asked for Christ to calm his anxieties and to calm the winds that would swing the wire. isn’t that how our daily walk with Christ is? so Nik Wallenda obviously has a living faith with Jesus.

 

[Stephen_Korsman]

Thanks for the replies and comments. I’ll quote a few thing to reply to … if I don’t quote you, it’s not because I didn’t appreciate your comments!

Yes, it was probably just a bad, tiring reading session.

True. In my area, people are flocking to non-denominational churches, where there is little doctrine, what I call “evangelical lite”. This is consistent with TV preachers, who concentrate on “everyone should take time to listen to their kids”, and “don’t let your work life interfere with your marriage”, etc, etc. No one could disagree with any one statement in their Hallmark theology, but there is no specifically Christian foundation. It does not give any help to young people who need to hold their faith in a hostile culture; as long as I’m being friendly, and I am a good family person, that’s enough.
I think this is consistent with what Newman predicted of Protestantism.

A lot of people have predicted that of Protestantism … which is good. I hope that we will see, in my lifetime, a significant return to the Church. If “Evangelical Lite” is what will speed that up, I am not surprised. Of course, there is “Catholic Lite” too, and those people are going in the opposite direction. But as a Church and in its leadership, Catholicism is on solid ground. Contrasting Pope Benedict’s explicit statements in his talks about how we are saved by Jesus and how he is a unique saviour … contrasting them with a variety of other statements (Anglican, Lutheran, Evangelical and non-Evanelical) it’s clear few are willing to make such bold statements today. And yes, I do see them coming from Evangelical circles too - but there is a mix there. My reading of CT made me feel ambivalent about their willingness to do that. (I am not always certain who gets classified as “Evangelical” - it’s a bit nebulous. There are the obvious cases which are and which are not, and a big greyzone.)

However, I would urge you to make friends with real-life Evangelical Protestants, not just the people who are writing for CT. You will discover that many of these Christians, no matter what happens, hold onto Jesus Christ.

See below …

I’m an Evangelical Christian, Stephen. Evangelicals aren’t without our own pile of problems, but, no, our faith is not lifeless. I’d guess you overloaded yourself with reading, especially if close relationships with Evangelical Christians aren’t part of your everyday life.

I have friends who would fall into that category, but not close. I have Protestant friends who I think would not classify themselves as Evangelical. In both cases I do see their relationship with Christ. It was as a collective, expressed through CT, that I saw a lot of wishy-washy stuff. Most of my friends have been collected from non-religious parts of my life - work, school, etc. There’s a joke that goes: “What’s the difference between Baptists and Catholics?” … “Catholics greet each other at the bottle store; Baptists greet each other at church.” Sadly, true in my experience, unless you’re part of a clique, which I am not. My current parish is traditionalist (the bad type) … a) because I can’t easily get to a non-traditionalist parish, b) I much prefer the Latin Mass (but not the traditionalist attitude), and c) they do actually greet each other and make friends.

I also think there is a big difference between Catholics on the one hand, Protestants on the other, and Orthodox on the third, in how they approach their relationship with God that can leave the other two confused as to whether they actually have one. I do not, for example, experience what Charismatics seem to in their relationship with God … it just seems odd to me.

I know, in real life, many Catholics but very, very few devout ones, and too much reading about Catholicism leaves me with a sense of ennui that I don’t get from real life Catholics.

There are Catholic sites that do that to me too

 

[nicolakirwan]

Your perspective is legitimate as your perspective, op, but the thread in general seems to strike an off note. I think it’s that it doesn’t seem to acknowledge the scores of Protestants who, just as you have done, look at Catholicism and see it as empty and dead, and the faith of many of the Catholics they meet as nonexistent, overscrupulous, or otherwise lukewarm. I think that ultimately, you are looking in from the outside into something that you don’t relate to and aren’t seeing from the inside out. The same should be said to Protestants who observe the Mass and think that it’s cultish and that the prayers are prayed without any real conviction, by rote (and yes, I’ve heard this from evangelicals). Clearly it depends on the particular congregations involved or the individual believers in question and whether the Holy Spirit is active in their life or not.

This just isn’t something you can stick a broad label on neatly, and it’s not something that you will be able to judge from reading CT articles. You would need to actually go to different churches to worship and engage in fellowship with other Christians to be able to make a judgement as to whether the Spirit of God was present there or not. Many Catholics oppose doing such, so perhaps it’s best to suspend judgment. But somehow it strikes me as a wile of the devil to have all of these baptized believers on all sides, many of whom would give their lives for Christ today, pointing out to one another how empty the other’s faith is compared to their own.

Also, Christianity Today deals with all the current issues in Christendom, mostly within Protestantism, and often the negative issues, so it is automatically going to skew toward a bleaker picture of the landscape.

 

[johnnyc176]

When I read your post the first thing I thought was “these people will do or say anything to keep from acknowledging that the Catholic Church has been right throughout the centuries.” It is sad but that’s the way it is. Living in a very anticatholic area of our country I can tell you that most protestants here would rather shake hands with the devil himself than admit the CC is the one true church. Another thing that came to mind “what will they say when they find out that instead of the Pope, the Orthodox have a patriarch?” I don’t think they will go for that either.:sad_yes:

ncregister.com/daily-news/protestant-south-becoming-a-new-catholic-stronghold?utm_source=feedly

Quite a few members of my Bible study group are converts to Catholicism. Reasons given…the truth and the Eucharist.

 

[Cat]

Stephen Korsman, it would probably interest you to know that quite a few Evangelical Protestants consider CT “liberal.”

They consider it “high intellectual muddle.” To Evangelical Protestants, Christianity is a daily, moment-by-moment relationship with Jesus Christ, and becoming more and more like Him.

So your reaction is not that surprising to me. Sometimes, we think too hard, and the result is exhaustion rather than exhilaration.

I think it’s good to strive for a balance. We can’t be all “physical,” or we are just animals. But we do have to pay attention to our physical bodies, and feed, rest, and exercise.

We can’t be all intellect, but we have to think and use our brains.

We can’t be all emotions, but we have to feel and allow our emotions to be expressed.

So perhaps put the magazine away, go out and stare at a sunset, watch a television show that makes you laugh, spend a few hours with someone you love, and go to Mass and re-connect with Jesus.

Then call up some of those Evangelical Protestants and arrange some kind of get-together so that you can get to know them and they can get to know you.

I think you’ll be a lot less gloomy if you go for a balanced approach.