Christianized gods/goddesses

[Padster]

With regards to a post in the Q and A section about the Virgin of Guadeloupe, it is fair to say that Pagan gods and goddesses were Christianized. Take Athena, for example. Athena Parthenos means Virgin Athena in English: early Christians even used the Parthenon itself to worship a statue of Mary in place of Athena. Look at the parallels between the two, and see the truth:

Serpent, spear, crown, sceptre: the instruction given by both women to their sons to kill the serpent.

Bacchus in particular got a raw deal. His monogram IHS was taken over by early Christians yet Justin Martyr declared him a ‘devilish mockery of Christ’.

What about the gods of the Olympian pantheon? Well, Apollo became St Michael, the nine Muses became the nine choirs of angels and Hermes became Abraham. Dionysus had most of his epithets transmuted into the new ‘god-man’ along with the dates of his birth and death.

How anyone can refute the argument that Christianity did not simply copy aspects of the Grecian gods is beyond me. Justin Martyr’s argument that the devil ‘pre-copied’ Christianity doesn’t hold water, and is a vain attempt to obscure the obvious.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[Gertabelle]

You might need to do a little research outside of the we-hate-Christianity-and-Judaism-so-we’ll-twist-anything-we-can-to-debunk-it realm of “scholars.”

Hermes became Abraham? Next you’ll be telling us that Dan Brown irrefutably proved Opus Dei is actually a group formed to find the descendants of Jesus and kill them.

You’re not saying anything new here, but in fact there is no “proof” for your arguments.

God bless you.

Gertie

 

[Murmurs]

I think you’re overdeveloping a well-known practice in early Christianity, to appropriate the aspects of paganism that could be compatible with the Christian message (eg reusing temple sites, and iconography, such as the use of halos in images etc), and of course in all likelihood there was an aspect of religious crossover. In part this was possibly a deliberate practice, to make Christianity more comprehensible, more accessible, and more tangible, to new converts.

But this isn’t the same as appropriating the pre-Christian pagan religions of the Roman Empire wholesale into Christian practice.

 

[Gorgias]

How anyone can refute the argument that Christianity did not simply copy aspects of the Grecian gods is beyond me.

Padster,

Ever hear of the “post hoc ergo propter hoc” logical fallacy? Your ‘proof’ is simply the textbook definition of the fallacy.

Blessings,
G.

 

[TARRAT]

 

[Padster]

You might need to do a little research outside of the we-hate-Christianity-and-Judaism-so-we’ll-twist-anything-we-can-to-debunk-it realm of “scholars.”

Hermes became Abraham? Next you’ll be telling us that Dan Brown irrefutably proved Opus Dei is actually a group formed to find the descendants of Jesus and kill them.

You’re not saying anything new here, but in fact there is no “proof” for your arguments.

God bless you.

Gertie

There’s no proof? Are you serious? Hermes: ram-bearer, shepherd of the flock, guider of souls to the afterlife. Ring any bells?

Believe me, I have done lots of research on this. And there is no need to muddy the waters with the fictional rubbish associated with Mr Brown. However, chortle as you may, there is NO getting around the fact that early Christians took the IHS monogram belonging to Bacchus and applied it to Jesus Christ. Why do that? Why not make you own symbols up if you are starting a new religion? Of course the argument is always given that it was to help the Pagans assimilate into the new religion. Fair enough, but why continue using this symbol now.?

But this isn’t the same as appropriating the pre-Christian pagan religions of the Roman Empire wholesale into Christian practice.

Oh dear, you really have a lot to learn. The practice of blessing oneself with water on entering and leaving church comes exclusively from pre-Christian Roman temples: the word ‘basilica’ comes from Roman times, the triumphal arch or tympanum is exclusively Roman: sacraments such as baptism, care of the sick, confession, all come from pre-Christian religions. The cross or world tree is pre-Christian, as is the date now set for Christmas. All the ancient sun religions have their gods born on or near the winter solstice and dead on or around the 25th March.

Padster,

Ever hear of the “post hoc ergo propter hoc” logical fallacy? Your ‘proof’ is simply the textbook definition of the fallacy.

You make a very good point. It is nice to encounter people with brains who will engage in a debate. The form of the post hoc fallacy is impossible to debunk and would be devastating to my case were we in a courtroom situation. Well done. You should be a lawyer sir.

Christianity is not undesirable because we would have to avoid its Pagan origins.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[edwest2]

Is Catholicism Pagan?

catholic.com/tracts/is-catholicism-pagan

Ed

 

[simpleas]

I keep being told that most all Christian Churches are built over pagan sites. Wonder why they did that?

 

[robwar]

With regards to a post in the Q and A section about the Virgin of Guadeloupe, it is fair to say that Pagan gods and goddesses were Christianized. Take Athena, for example. Athena Parthenos means Virgin Athena in English: early Christians even used the Parthenon itself to worship a statue of Mary in place of Athena. Look at the parallels between the two, and see the truth:

Serpent, spear, crown, sceptre: the instruction given by both women to their sons to kill the serpent.

Bacchus in particular got a raw deal. His monogram IHS was taken over by early Christians yet Justin Martyr declared him a ‘devilish mockery of Christ’.

What about the gods of the Olympian pantheon? Well, Apollo became St Michael, the nine Muses became the nine choirs of angels and Hermes became Abraham. Dionysus had most of his epithets transmuted into the new ‘god-man’ along with the dates of his birth and death.

How anyone can refute the argument that Christianity did not simply copy aspects of the Grecian gods is beyond me. Justin Martyr’s argument that the devil ‘pre-copied’ Christianity doesn’t hold water, and is a vain attempt to obscure the obvious.

Best wishes,
Padster

I don’t think there is anything anyone is going to say here that will change your mind on your conclusions. You should consider that maybe some of these images etc in ancient pagan religions maybe pointing to albeit imperfectly to the real thing in Christianity. They were not copied from as you are alluding but pointing to something that it better and wholly true. The wise men from the east were astrologers that studied stars and constellations. Even in that false system and religion, they followed elements of truth which led them to the Christ child. That doesn’t validate astrology but supports what I’m trying to say that other religions and faiths have elements in them that when followed with a heart looking for real truth will lead you to totally truth that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[robwar]

I keep being told that most all Christian Churches are built over pagan sites. Wonder why they did that?

It shows the triumph of truth of the Christian faith. This isn’t a validation of the previous use for the other religion or faith. It shows a rejection of the previous paganism.

 

[Padster]

what I’m trying to say that other religions and faiths have elements in them that when followed with a heart looking for real truth will lead you to totally truth that Jesus is the Son of God.

Then why did I have a spiritual experience which pointed me firmly to one of the gods of ancient Greece? Please tell me, because I don’t understand it at all. I am not some anti-Church person. I have served the church for twenty years. I have this experience inside a Christian church, and then am pointed towards a Pagan god. I am just trying to reach the truth, and at the moment the truth is not pointing to Jesus at all. It would be lovely it this experience had fitted neatly with my beliefs, but it hasn’t, and my beliefs are in turmoil as a result.

What is your explanation? I am not insane, if that’s what you’re thinking.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[tabycat]

I did not know that Hermes was believed in before 2000 BC (when Abarham lived) ! ! !

 

[spiderweb]

Then why did I have a spiritual experience which pointed me firmly to one of the gods of ancient Greece? Please tell me, because I don’t understand it at all. I am not some anti-Church person. I have served the church for twenty years. I have this experience inside a Christian church, and then am pointed towards a Pagan god. I am just trying to reach the truth, and at the moment the truth is not pointing to Jesus at all. It would be lovely it this experience had fitted neatly with my beliefs, but it hasn’t, and my beliefs are in turmoil as a result.

What is your explanation? I am not insane, if that’s what you’re thinking.

I don’t have an explanation, but there are many possibilities. While religion can indeed be experiential, experience itself does not necessarily mean truth. Example: Getting chemotherapy for cancer treatment. The experience is painful and could lead to the belief that the doctors are intentionally trying to harm him. The truth is that the doctors are trying to heal him, even if the experience of that healing in itself is painful.

I would highly recommend Trent Horn’s DVD “Why Believe in Jesus?” found here in the Catholic Answers shop. shop.catholic.com/why-believe-in-jesus-a-case-for-the-existence-divinity-and-resurrection-of-christ.html

As a bonus feature he goes through the video “Zeitgeist” and responds to all of their claims of Christianity just being ripped off of other pagan religions which are the same objections to Christianity that you raised here.

 

[simpleas]

It shows the triumph of truth of the Christian faith. This isn’t a validation of the previous use for the other religion or faith. It shows a rejection of the previous paganism.

Yes I thought that too, but the sites were places of worship, although destroyed they meant something to the people who worshipped there, something to do with ley lines I think.

 

[edwest2]

Yes I thought that too, but the sites were places of worship, although destroyed they meant something to the people who worshipped there, something to do with ley lines I think.

There is a book that was published in 1925 titled The Old Straight Track. The lining up of ancient, pre-Christian spiritual sites is described for the UK. After years of research, it appears to me that a straight line from one point to the other would be the least time-consuming and practical for travelers.

Ed

 

[Ignatius]

I did not know that Hermes was believed in before 2000 BC (when Abarham lived) ! ! !