Christians reputation distorted by Creationist.

[Mannyfit75]

If you watch the news lately, the media seem to attack Christianity on many grounds. I was reading an article about the issue of Creationism being taught in school. Since the debate have spark interest in Creationism, the general public seem to think that Christians in general believe that the earth is 6,000 yrs old and that Dinosaur and man lived together.

One prime example is when Matt Damon question Sarah Palin’s credibility. He fears her. He said, “I really need to know if she thinks Dinosaurs were here 4,000 yrs ago.”

I do not believe in a young earth nor do I believe the literal creationist account of Genesis. I do believe in theistic evolution. I also know for certain that the universe is about 13 billion yrs old due to the current observation by our astronomers.

I also watch a lot Youtube Videos that makes Creationists look extremely stupid.

 

[Hebrews_4_12]

If you watch the news lately, the media seem to attack Christianity on many grounds. I was reading an article about the issue of Creationism being taught in school. Since the debate have spark interest in Creationism, the general public seem to think that Christians in general believe that the earth is 6,000 yrs old and that Dinosaur and man lived together.

No, your right, Christians in general do not believe in YEC and that is a sad thing that we fear men more than we fear God and we listen more to fallen fallible man than the non-fallible eternal omniscient Creator of the Universe.

One prime example is when Matt Damon question Sarah Palin’s credibility. He fears her. He said, “I really need to know if she thinks Dinosaurs were here 4,000 yrs ago.”

Matt Damon the actor? Is he our bellweather for credibility now? I must have missed the memo. Anyone that Hollywood fears is a good thing, since there is certainly no fear of God in them! Let’s be straight Sarah Palin is hated and feared for one reason and one reason only, abortion. The left hates that she has five kids, hates that she was a wife and a mother and a governor, they hate she did not “plan” her pregnancies and reduce them for “convience”, they hate she knowingly brought a child with disabilities into this world instead of killing him in the womb, they hate that she encourage her daughter to keep her grandchild. The Left is anything but pro-choice and boy do they hate Mrs Palin’s choices.

I do not believe in a young earth nor do I believe the literal creationist account of Genesis. …

So I guess the whole inspired, infallible, inerrant, God breathed thing about the scriptures is a no go for you as well?

I do believe in theistic evolution. …

Random undirected natural forces guided by a sovereign God??? Look up classic definitions of theism and evolution, I myself see mutual exclusion. BTW Natural and or Artificial Selection does not equate to evolution since the change is within a family or kind of animal. Most everyone believes in Natural and or Artificial Selection.

… I also know for certain that the universe is about 13 billion yrs old due to the current observation by our astronomers.

You know for certain the age of the universe, that number is fixed then right? I wouldn’t be able to find any scientific articles that have other numbers than that right?

I also watch a lot Youtube Videos that makes Creationists look extremely stupid.

Of what group or individual could you not selectively say “I also watch a lot Youtube Videos that makes GroupX look extremely stupid.” This passes for argumentation/refutation of a position?

Just could not pass this post by!

 

[Benjamin118]

I have also been disheartened by the views the news and Hollywood can sometimes take on Christian ideas. That stuff shouldn’t get to us though, it is, after all, just other human beings. However, all we can do as Catholics is stand by our ideas and inform those around us if it comes up (in a respectful way in relation to their beliefs) what the Church teaches.
It isn’t so hard to imagine that maybe evolution is true and it was divinely guided by God, but I wouldn’t call Creationists “stupid,” especially since it’s true that anyone can be made to look like a fool on Youtube. I just respectfully disagree.

 

[Bluegoat]

Creationists (although I hate the term, because I think I am a creationist, really) are indeed an easy target. But they don’t represent great multitudes of Christians.

I think in some areas, especially parts of the US, they are the most common kind of Christian, even though historically and worldwide they aren’t.

They are effective lobbyists and seem to have a special relationship to the Republican party, which worries some people in the US. They are very loud and outspoken about creationism.

They present their view as the only authentic Christian one.

And some people who should know better, or do know better, let on as if they represent all Christians because they are an easy target - they are setting up a straw man for themselves.

 

[PhiJ]

Disclamer: I used to be a creationist, now I’m a fence sitter.

In my experience (UK middle class) people do ask me if I’m a creationist sometimes, and we’ve had long arguments about it. But they don’t see all christians as being creationist (no idea if they think the majority are). I’m sure that is very heavily dependant upon my ‘culture’ and the type of person I am though.

I also watch a lot Youtube Videos that makes Creationists look extremely stupid.

I have also seen youtube videos and other creationist and skeptic videos which make creationists look extremely stupid. But if you’re interested in reading the work of creationists who aren’t so stupid, I recommend Todd Wood’s blog and Paul Garner’s blog (the second allows comments!) Both can get into rather technical science at times, and in the comments on Paul’s blog you can find very interesting debates.

I’m afraid I don’t know any websites which present the theology of creation well (simply because I haven’t looked), but I find the theological arguments to be the most convincing. Not the arguments which go ‘this is how we interpret the hebrew’, but the arguments which say (roughly) ‘God made the world good, he would not have allowed death and pain before the fall, what would that say about his character?’

BTW Natural and or Artificial Selection does not equate to evolution since the change is within a family or kind of animal. Most everyone believes in Natural and or Artificial Selection.

It looks like you think that evolution means that life came from a chemical soup, and that all living creatures have a common ancestor. This may happen by evolution, but is not evolution itself.

Evolution is roughly the change in genes over a population over time. It’s described in more detail here. So if all the people with blue eyes died, the population will have evolved. The main mechanisms of evolution are natural selection, mutation, genetic drift, and if you’re a bacterium: gene transfer.

 

[NotTooSmart]

Pot meet kettle.

Galileo was wrong.

By Catholic apologist Robert Sungenis.

 

[MercyMia]

God’s ways are so infinite that we can’t understand how he created us with our limited understanding of science. Science is after all, just the study of how God works. I think some creationists really do not even understand the bible enough, it more of a social phenomenon. That said, I do not fall down on the side of evolutionists either. We are so unable to comprehend God’s ways. We are limited by our own measure of time and space. I do believe that God told us what we need to know to understand our spiritual origins in the bible. I believe every word of Genesis is God’s word and did happen - but the method and timetable God used to make it happen is a mystery to us. Matt Damon making fun of creationists almost makes me want to root for them more, though. I have had it with hollywood types thinking they are qualified as scientists.

I guess I just have a problem with creationists who claim to take the word of God 100% literally but when Jesus says with his own mouth THIS IS MY BODY, oh he just meant symbolically! It shows inconsistency on their part.

 

[survive]

If you watch the news lately, the media seem to attack Christianity on many grounds. I was reading an article about the issue of Creationism being taught in school. Since the debate have spark interest in Creationism, the general public seem to think that Christians in general believe that the earth is 6,000 yrs old and that Dinosaur and man lived together.

The media would find something to attack Christianity over even if a) Creationism were proven accurate or b) there were no Creationists around.

One prime example is when Matt Damon question Sarah Palin’s credibility. He fears her. He said, “I really need to know if she thinks Dinosaurs were here 4,000 yrs ago.”

I question Matt Damon’s credibility. He isn’t a scientist. He isn’t a political thinker. He is a former teen idol. (I’m assuming we’re talking about the same one?) His opinion on theology, politics and science is irrelevant to me. I would be no more likely to vote the way Matt Damon tells me to than to let Courtney Cox Arquette tell me what car insurance to purchase or let John Travolta pick my doctor for me. As Howard Hughes was depicted as saying in “The Aviator,” “A movie star – nothing more.”

I do not believe in a young earth nor do I believe the literal creationist account of Genesis. I do believe in theistic evolution. I also know for certain that the universe is about 13 billion yrs old due to the current observation by our astronomers.

I also watch a lot Youtube Videos that makes Creationists look extremely stupid.

It’s more complicated than that. There are a lot of positions in between. I don’t watch many You Tube videos but every once in a while I glimpse a TV show, magazine, or other mass media, and I actually find YECs, though I am not one, far smarter and more capable of clear speech and argument than most of their more avid antagonists. That’s why I defend them.
I have no idea why Sarah Palin’s YEC beliefs, if she holds any, are relevant to her leadership capability; several recent elected officials who did a fair to pretty good job were YEC, IIRC. Anyway, why are astrophysics and natural history so politically urgent? Why neglect our politicians’ awareness of the latest in metallurgy, gastroenterology, or the history of the theater?

 

[Mannyfit75]

No, your right, Christians in general do not believe in YEC and that is a sad thing that we fear men more than we fear God and we listen more to fallen fallible man than the non-fallible eternal omniscient Creator of the Universe.

The Bible as whole is love story between God and humanity. The creation account gives a theological point of view of the creation. It isn’t a science book. Science merely describe the details how life originated, and whether you know or not, many of the early astronomers were religious Christians.

Matt Damon the actor? Is he our bellweather for credibility now? I must have missed the memo. Anyone that Hollywood fears is a good thing, since there is certainly no fear of God in them! Let’s be straight Sarah Palin is hated and feared for one reason and one reason only, abortion. The left hates that she has five kids, hates that she was a wife and a mother and a governor, they hate she did not “plan” her pregnancies and reduce them for “convience”, they hate she knowingly brought a child with disabilities into this world instead of killing him in the womb, they hate that she encourage her daughter to keep her grandchild. The Left is anything but pro-choice and boy do they hate Mrs Palin’s choices.

Matt Damon the actor. He made a generalization that all Christians believe in Creationism while in truth, Christians do not believe in the pseudo-science of creationism.

So I guess the whole inspired, infallible, inerrant, God breathed thing about the scriptures is a no go for you as well?

It is inspired word of God but you cannot take every single verse of Scripture as literal because if you do, you would find Scripture contradicting itself.

Random undirected natural forces guided by a sovereign God??? Look up classic definitions of theism and evolution, I myself see mutual exclusion. BTW Natural and or Artificial Selection does not equate to evolution since the change is within a family or kind of animal. Most everyone believes in Natural and or Artificial Selection.

Evolution is a theory. It is not fact. Theistic Evolution states,

*Theistic evolution and evolutionary creationism are similar concepts that assert that classical religious teachings about God are compatible with the modern scientific understanding about biological evolution. In short, theistic evolutionists believe that there is a God, that God is the creator of the material universe and (by consequence) all life within, and that biological evolution is simply a natural process within that creation. Evolution, according to this view, is simply a tool that God employed to develop human life.

Theistic evolution is not a theory in the scientific sense, but a particular view about how the science of evolution relates to religious belief and interpretation. Theistic evolution supporters can be seen as one of the groups who reject the conflict thesis regarding the relationship between religion and science – that is, they hold that religious teachings about creation and scientific theories of evolution need not contradict*

You know for certain the age of the universe, that number is fixed then right? I wouldn’t be able to find any scientific articles that have other numbers than that right?

The universe is about 13.73 billion years old,with an uncertainty of 120 million years. However, this age is based on the assumption that the project’s underlying model is correct; other methods of estimating the age of the universe could give different ages. Assuming an extra background of relativistic particles, for example, can enlarge the error bars of the WMAP constraint by one order of magnitude.[8]

This measurement is made by using the location of the first acoustic peak in the microwave background power spectrum to determine the size of the decoupling surface (size of universe at the time of recombination). The light travel time to this surface (depending on the geometry used) yields a reliable age for the universe. Assuming the validity of the models used to determine this age, the residual accuracy yields a margin of error near one percent.

This is the value currently most quoted by astronomers.

Second, there is no proof that the universe is 6,000 yrs old.

Of what group or individual could you not selectively say “I also watch a lot Youtube Videos that makes GroupX look extremely stupid.” This passes for argumentation/refutation of a position?

Just could not pass this post by!

Creationism is pseudo-science. Man did not live with dinosaurs and the T-rex is not vegetarian according to one famous creationist, Kent Hovind. Many of his videos of creationism are poorly done.

 

[NotTooSmart]

T
Creationism is pseudo-science. Man did not live with dinosaurs and the T-rex is not vegetarian according to one famous creationist, Kent Hovind. Many of his videos of creationism are poorly done.

Hey Manny:

What do you think of your apologist Robert Sungenis then.

He is not only a young-earth creationalist but also a geocentricist.

If you apparantly think young-earth creationists are nutty, what about geocentrists.

And oh btw, do you think that it is right to attach Protestants as nutjobs for young-earth creationalist beliefs when there are Catholic geocentrists.

Gosh, that sounds a tad inconsistent to me.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hey Manny:

What do you think of your apologist Robert Sungenis then.

He is not only a young-earth creationalist but also a geocentricist.

If you apparantly think young-earth creationists are nutty, what about geocentrists.

And oh btw, do you think that it is right to attach Protestants as nutjobs for young-earth creationalist beliefs when there are Catholic geocentrists.

Gosh, that sounds a tad inconsistent to me.

I do not believe in Geocentrists. Catholics have their own conservative sects that believes in geocentrists. Scientific evidence prove Sungenis wrong.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I also believe Robertt Sungenis is wrong about his interpretation of the Magisterial Teachings of the Church. The Church does not support nor does it hold Geocentrism views. Dr. Lawrence Krauss critcized his work.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

The problem is, it seems the Young Earth Creationists tend to be the most out-spoken ones and therefore are the most noticeable. Ye old principle of the squeaky wheel getting the most oil. I’m an old-earth theistic evolutionist of sorts: I wasn’t there when God created the world, so the best I can do is make educated guesses based on the evidence at hand. Try telling that to my mother, who’s a YEC: I stopped trying to discuss archeo-biology with her a long time ago, and let’s not mention the theory that modern birds are what remains of dinosaurs (though danged if our pet parakeet doesn’t look like a bit like a teeny-weeny T-Rex when he’s defending his territory, ie. his cage).

 

[Mannyfit75]

The problem is, it seems the Young Earth Creationists tend to be the most out-spoken ones and therefore are the most noticeable. Ye old principle of the squeaky wheel getting the most oil. I’m an old-earth theistic evolutionist of sorts: I wasn’t there when God created the world, so the best I can do is make educated guesses based on the evidence at hand. Try telling that to my mother, who’s a YEC: I stopped trying to discuss archeo-biology with her a long time ago, and let’s not mention the theory that modern birds are what remains of dinosaurs (though danged if our pet parakeet doesn’t look like a bit like a teeny-weeny T-Rex when he’s defending his territory, ie. his cage).

Creationists and Geocentrists are dumb. They ignore scientific facts.

 

[j1akey]

Ah yes, creationism. A subject near and dear to my heart because of my high level of opposition to it.

The whole argument for creationism or some level of it pretty much boil down to poking holes in evolution in things that haven’t been figured out yet or just flat out misrepresenting evidence rather than having any sort of evidence to support it. If someone could actually show me some sort of solid evidence to support it then I’d be willing to give it a fair shake. Now granted making fun of anyone on youtube isn’t exactly hard but the reason why it’s so easy to make fun of creationism is because there isn’t any science to actually back it up, it’s all pseudo-science and philosophy. Now normally I don’t have a problem with that in itself except when people claim that is it actually is science. I know this is not the belief of every theist but the number seems to grow every year.

I’m not sure why people get all over the media about things like this. Not every media outlet is going to give it credibility but Fox News has given plenty of airtime to creationism and intelligent design. You can’t reasonably expect everyone to to do the same though.

Geocentricity - Don’t even get me started on this one.

 

[atheist1]

Creationists and Geocentrists are dumb. They ignore scientific facts.

Yet you believe that god comes to you in the form of a cracker?

Where is the science in that?

 

[Ceil-1]

I’ll decide for myself whether this man discredits anything, thanks but no thanks. If that burises some athiest egos, then, I guess you need to find a new hobby. Or, get some humility, that would really help mankind.

 

[atheist1]

I’ll decide for myself whether this man discredits anything, thanks but no thanks. If that burises some athiest egos, then, I guess you need to find a new hobby. Or, get some humility, that would really help mankind.

Why would anything you posted bruise an atheist’s ego?

 

[John7]

Its almost 5770 according to Jewish years, anybody know what that corresponds to?
Do they believe earth was created then?

 

[Ghoti]

Yet you believe that god comes to you in the form of a cracker?

Where is the science in that?

We don’t claim it as scientific, provable fact. The bread and wine, when consecrated, become the Body and Blood of Christ in substance, while retaining the external accidents (appearance, texture, chemical composition, etc) of bread and wine. I don’t believe, however, that you’ll find many Real Presence-believing Christians who think that this makes these usable for transfusions or skin grafts.

I’m a “theistic evolutionist” or a “scientific creationist” or whatever you want to call it. I leave scientific discovery to those trained in those disciplines. I’m not trained in those, so I have to trust scientists to figure out what’s what. And I find, generally, no scientific theory is in conflict with my faith – since God is outside the realm of measurement, non-falsifiable, etc. Scientific community: The universe is actually trillions of years old! It’s both flat and curved! We evolved from bats! TIMECUBE, even! Me: The numbers support this? SC: Yup. Here’s the data, we all agree. Me: OK. Way to go, God.

Oh, and I think you’ve been around these fora long enough to know that referring to the Eucharist as a “cracker” is extremely offensive to Catholics (as well as Orthodox and many Anglicans and Lutherans). I’m hoping that is just a slip, and not intentional mockery, or just your way of showing your contempt.