Christmas

[Tinkerbell]

A friend gave me something to read from the Church of Christ. She is a fallen away Catholic and now attends a Methodist church. Anyway, she ask me to read the following and let her know what I think. So could you point out what is true and what is not.

Putting Christ back in Christmas
The inspired accounts of our Lord’s birth are thrilling indeed. Everyone is fascinated by Biblical narratives that tell of the angels telling Joseph that Mary is to give birth to our Savior, the trip to Bethlehem, the birth of Jesus and the glory surrounding the announcement to the shepards. The accounts furnish us with great truth coucerning the divine nature of Jesus as well as his divine purpose.
Many are shocked, however, to find that the new testament is completely void of any reference to Christians observing a special day in honor of Christ birth. In fact history show tha the man made observance of Christmas was unknow until the fourth centery AD. The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of New testament origin. The date of Christ birth cannot be ascertained from the new testament or indeed from any other source.
Thus we take issue with those who advocate the slogan “Lets keep Christ in Christmas” . According biblical scholars and historians agree that the celebration of Christman came about as a result of mingling pagan and humanistic teaching.
There are many things that are right and good about the festive season that us upon us. The spirit of love and good will, family gathers, gift giving, etc. However, may we point out that there are some things that are morally right but religiously wrong. For example, Jesus comdemned the Pharisees for demanding that men wash thier hands before eating. There is nothing morally wrong with washing one’s hands before eating, but to do so as a religious rite or as an act of worship is unauthoried by God and therefore sinful.
In the same way, to enjoy the holidays (not Holy Days) with family and friends if fine. However, to observe a day religously as a special Holy Day which is completely without New testament authority is wrong. The apostle Paul wrote:
10 You observe days and months and season and year. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.
Christians of the first century met each first day of the week to remember Christ’s death by observing the Lord’s Supper and to give of the means. This is what you will fing amoung faithful Christians today. Our aim is simply to return to the new Testament pattern whick is the only basis for Christian unity.

So what to you think about this.

 

[noma]

Well, the historical information is definitely less than accurate.

I would suggest reading: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Origin_of_Christian_festival.

The feast is based on the annunciation, had its origins at least before 221 AD, and according to Zoroastrian history, was celebrated far before the birth of Christ as the birth of Mithra (though this fell on Solstice, and not the 25th strictly).

Considering the similarities between the two figures, it would just make sense that Christians would choose a date near or on Solstice in order to celebrate the birth of their savior without Roman law coming after them for celebrating outside the calendar (without worshiping state gods, the real impetus and object of the versus by St. Paul).

Christmas proper has been a part of thousands of years of Christian history, having a date of conception (so to speak) near the time when the Gospels were discovered.

To state that it is an invention of pagans would be historically tantamount to stating that the Gospels are an invention of pagans.

It’s poor history, and it’s very poor Christianity.

Christ is risen, Glorify Him!

 

[FCEGM]

A friend gave me something to read from the Church of Christ. She is a fallen away Catholic and now attends a Methodist church. Anyway, she ask me to read the following and let her know what I think. So could you point out what is true and what is not. . .

If you read through the long thread here on whether or not the Christmas tree is evil (it isn’t ) you should find some good helps to forming your response

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

A friend gave me something to read from the Church of Christ. She is a fallen away Catholic and now attends a Methodist church. Anyway, she ask me to read the following and let her know what I think. So could you point out what is true and what is not.

Putting Christ back in Christmas
The inspired accounts of our Lord’s birth are thrilling indeed. Everyone is fascinated by Biblical narratives that tell of the angels telling Joseph that Mary is to give birth to our Savior, the trip to Bethlehem, the birth of Jesus and the glory surrounding the announcement to the shepards. The accounts furnish us with great truth coucerning the divine nature of Jesus as well as his divine purpose.
Many are shocked, however, to find that the new testament is completely void of any reference to Christians observing a special day in honor of Christ birth. In fact history show tha the man made observance of Christmas was unknow until the fourth centery AD. The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of New testament origin. The date of Christ birth cannot be ascertained from the new testament or indeed from any other source.
Thus we take issue with those who advocate the slogan “Lets keep Christ in Christmas” . According biblical scholars and historians agree that the celebration of Christman came about as a result of mingling pagan and humanistic teaching.
There are many things that are right and good about the festive season that us upon us. The spirit of love and good will, family gathers, gift giving, etc. However, may we point out that there are some things that are morally right but religiously wrong. For example, Jesus comdemned the Pharisees for demanding that men wash thier hands before eating. There is nothing morally wrong with washing one’s hands before eating, but to do so as a religious rite or as an act of worship is unauthoried by God and therefore sinful.
In the same way, to enjoy the holidays (not Holy Days) with family and friends if fine. However, to observe a day religously as a special Holy Day which is completely without New testament authority is wrong. The apostle Paul wrote:
10 You observe days and months and season and year. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.
Christians of the first century met each first day of the week to remember Christ’s death by observing the Lord’s Supper and to give of the means. This is what you will fing amoung faithful Christians today. Our aim is simply to return to the new Testament pattern whick is the only basis for Christian unity.

So what to you think about this.

The Church has got a certain amount of legitimate authority to organise worship. For instance to decide on the language to be used, the readings chosen, the saint to honour. Christmas falls into this category. The Pope could abolish or downgrade the feast, but He won’t, because there are perfectly good pastoral, theological, and cultural reasons for retaining it.

 

[Tinkerbell]

Is Wikipedia an accurate source??

 

[Karianne]

Is Wikipedia an accurate source??

Well, I was very happy when I found some scurrilous stuff about a politician I dislike and then a friend told me that it was not a reliable source.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Is Wikipedia an accurate source??

A survey in Nature found that it was as good as Encyclopedia Britannica. Of course they could only evaluate non-controversial, accepted facts.

 

[noma]

Is Wikipedia an accurate source??

It’s semi-accurate with anything, but if it’s sourced you can check the sources. Most of the information of interest is contained in the Encyclopedia Britannica. I would also claim as good sources for reading Pelikan’s early church history, and Kelly’s “The Origins of Christmas”.

 

[Fidelis]

Is Wikipedia an accurate source??

Not entirely. Some articles are more dependable than others. One should never take it as the final authority, especially on serious matters.

I would thank your friend for passing on this article to you, but also tell her that the article is lacking some facts. Then I would give her this article:

The Truth About Christmas
cathinsight.com/apologetics/adventism/christmas.htm

 

[Tom]

Many are shocked, however, to find that the new testament is completely void of any reference to Christians observing a special day in honor of Christ birth.

The NT wouldn’t contain any mention of celebrating His birthday. Why would it? First of all little is known of His early years from the NT. Does this mean He and His family did not celebrate His birthday? The lack of evidence of His family celebrating His birthday in the NT does NOT mean the did not celebrate! His family were, in fact, the very first Christians weren’t they? So one could reasonably conclude that the “first” Christians did indeed celebrate His birthday.

In fact history show tha the man made observance of Christmas was unknow until the fourth centery AD.

Aside from being inaccurate, I’ve found mention of celebrating His birth from the early second century, it’s perfectly acceptable to God for us to follow “man made” observances given from the leadership of His one, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
www.drbo.org:

Luke 10, 16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

So refusing to listen to the leadership of His Church is in fact refusing to listen to Him.

 

[Tom]

www.drbo.org:

The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of New testament origin. The date of Christ birth cannot be ascertained from the new testament or indeed from any other source.

Unless he claims to have either been physically present (2000 years ago) or has a transcript of every Word our Lord spoke to His Apostles during the forty days He spent with the leadership of His Church from the day of His resurrection until His ascension, how can he state it is not a divine appointment? He is attempting to say his lack of knowledge of something must mean the event did not take place.

 

[Tom]

"www.drbo.org:

Thus we take issue with those who advocate the slogan “Lets keep Christ in Christmas”

And it is certainly his God given right to exclude Christ from the celebration from the day, indeed from his entire life, God won’t force Himself on any of us.

According biblical scholars and historians agree that the celebration of Christman came about as a result of mingling pagan and humanistic teaching.

What? You gather 100 “historians and Biblical scholars” and they won’t even agree there is a God.

 

[Tom]

There are many things that are right and good about the festive season that us upon us. The spirit of love and good will, family gathers, gift giving, etc. However, may we point out that there are some things that are morally right but religiously wrong. For example, Jesus comdemned the Pharisees for demanding that men wash thier hands before eating. There is nothing morally wrong with washing one’s hands before eating, but to do so as a religious rite or as an act of worship is unauthoried by God and therefore sinful.

is this person really trying to say celebrating the birth of our Lord and savior, Jesus, the Christ, is a sin? PLEASE!!!

 

[catsrus]

Typical fundelmentalist stuff…‘if it’s not in the Bible than it’s not true, didn’t happen, wasn’t believed’, etc, etc, bleecchh!!!
Their Bible also does not tell them NOT to rejoice in the birth of Christ either.
Turn it around on them.

 

[Della]

The only reason for anyone to make a fuss over the date for Christmas is to try to discredit the Catholic Church. Fundamentalists aren’t the first to do so. From the online Catholic Encyclopedia:

In England, Christmas was forbidden by Act of Parliament in 1644; the day was to be a fast and a market day; shops were compelled to be open; plum puddings and mince pies condemned as heathen. The conservatives resisted; at Canterbury blood was shed; but after the Restoration Dissenters continued to call Yuletide “Fooltide”.

If Fundamentalists don’t want to celebrate Christmas, for whatever reason, then they don’t have to. But, Catholics have no reason to defend the celebration of the Nativity of the Lord no matter when the Church might have decided to name a feast day to honor the birth of our Lord Jesus. The date means nothing compared to celebrating the birth of Our Savior, which is definitely “mentioned” in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.

 

[mlchance]

Their Bible also does not tell them NOT to rejoice in the birth of Christ either.

In point of fact, God’s messengers very plainly informed people that the birth of Jesus was cause for great joy.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

OK… this is not directed at the op, but rather what was given to him by his friend. I think the comments quoted in the original post are utterly absurd. No New Testament authority…what the heck?? Does not the New Testament tell us the Lord was born??? Does not the New Testament tell us that all of heaven rejoiced?? Does the New Testament tell us that the wise men of the east brought gifts to honor Our Lord?? Why should we not celebrate the Birth of Our Lord when* all of Heaven did*?? ABSURD!!

Lets put Christ back into Christmas…a popular slogan for some. I saw here on the forums the other day someone say “lets also put the MASS back into Christmas”. What these folks seem to forget is that Christmas is a feast day of the Catholic Church-the feast of the Nativity of Our Lord—Christ’s Mass. The Catholic Church has the right to remember Our Lord’s birth, we do so based on the Biblical narrative of the Nativity of Our Lord.

Of course, we know that their problem isn’t really the fact that the Lord’s birth is being commemorated as much as the fact that the day chosen for it coincided with a pagan holiday. Again, so what?? The whole argument about which day was chosen for that feast day gives me a headache. Who cares what day was chosen as long as a day is set aside to remember His Birth. What is important is the commoration not the date. By choosing December 25th as the feast day of the Nativity, the Catholic Church may have converted thousands of pagans to the true faith. Does anybody ever stop to think that that is a good thing??? How many people stop to fondly pay tribute their sun god on December 25th and how many people fondly commemorate the birth of Our Lord and Savior on December 25th?

By the way… all those folks in the op’s friends’ church who are circulating this nonsense better take off their wedding rings pronto… those are pagan practices and it is not in the Bible!

 

[Tinkerbell]

OK… this is not directed at the op, but rather what was given to him by his friend. I think the comments quoted in the original post are utterly absurd. No New Testament authority…what the heck?? Does not the New Testament tell us the Lord was born??? Does not the New Testament tell us that all of heaven rejoiced?? Does the New Testament tell us that the wise men of the east brought gifts to honor Our Lord?? Why should we not celebrate the Birth of Our Lord when* all of Heaven did*?? ABSURD!!

Lets put Christ back into Christmas…a popular slogan for some. I saw here on the forums the other day someone say “lets also put the MASS back into Christmas”. What these folks seem to forget is that Christmas is a feast day of the Catholic Church-the feast of the Nativity of Our Lord—Christ’s Mass. The Catholic Church has the right to remember Our Lord’s birth, we do so based on the Biblical narrative of the Nativity of Our Lord.

Of course, we know that their problem isn’t really the fact that the Lord’s birth is being commemorated as much as the fact that the day chosen for it coincided with a pagan holiday. Again, so what?? The whole argument about which day was chosen for that feast day gives me a headache. Who cares what day was chosen as long as a day is set aside to remember His Birth. What is important is the commoration not the date. By choosing December 25th as the feast day of the Nativity, the Catholic Church may have converted thousands of pagans to the true faith. Does anybody ever stop to think that that is a good thing??? How many people stop to fondly pay tribute their sun god on December 25th and how many people fondly commemorate the birth of Our Lord and Savior on December 25th?

By the way… all those folks in the op’s friends’ church who are circulating this nonsense better take off their wedding rings pronto… those are pagan practices and it is not in the Bible!

Excellent points!!
Thanks for all your responses. If anyone else would like to comment please do so.
I guess they will do or say anything to keep from going to church. Dec. 25th is set aside is to celebrate the birth of our Lord and Saviour so I just don’t understand their logic.

 

[Tom]

Now, if your friends would like to make EVERY day a day of celebration of the birth of our Lord Jesus, I’m fine with that!

 

[mercygate]

Start your education with the article in the Catholic Encyclopedia.