Christmas

[John89]

does the church teach that Dec. 25th is the actual birthday of Jesus Christ ?? and if so how do we know this ??

 

[Rawb]

not according to Newadvent.org:

newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

That was just the day it was decided to celebrate the Birth of Our Lord.

 

[thistle]

does the church teach that Dec. 25th is the actual birthday of Jesus Christ ?? and if so how do we know this ??

The Church does not teach this and nor does it matter. Whether it is the real date of Jesus’ birth or not makes no difference to our faith.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

does the church teach that Dec. 25th is the actual birthday of Jesus Christ ?? and if so how do we know this ??

If I remember the reasoning is as follows from Luke 1:

1. Zacharias was chosen that year to incense the temple for a special feast (I cant remember which ). Anyway this feat took place in the fall, September-October. An angel appeared and said Zacharias and Elizabeth would have a son, John the Baptist.

2)In the sixth moth of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, March-April, an angel appeared to the Blessed Virgin Mary and said She would have a son, Jesus.

3)Doing the math, 9 months from the time the Angel appeared to Mary Jesus would have been born and that is precisely in the time frame of December-January.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

does the church teach that Dec. 25th is the actual birthday of Jesus Christ ?? and if so how do we know this ??

No, the Catholic Church does not teach that Dec. 25 was the actual date of the birth of Christ.

 

[bpbasilphx]

What is being celebrated is a theological and spiritual fact: the Nativity According to the Flesh of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ (to give the full Byzantine name).

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

not according to Newadvent.org:

newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

That was just the day it was decided to celebrate the Birth of Our Lord.

And for two reasons:​

An anti-Arian one:

• hence the institution of the feast in 336, to emphasise the dignity of the Person being born
  An anti-pagan one:
• to crowd the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (= the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun) out of the calendar
  Solar monotheism was very much “in the air”, & had been since the 270s at least.

 

[tabcom]

The Church does not teach (Jesus was born on December 25) and nor does it matter. Whether it is the real date of Jesus’ birth or not makes no difference to our faith.

I stopped doing christmas seven years ago. Therefore, I can vouch for this statement.

 

[tabcom]

If I remember the reasoning is as follows from Luke 1:

1. Zacharias was chosen that year to incense the temple for a special feast (I cant remember which ). Anyway this feat took place in the fall, September-October. An angel appeared and said Zacharias and Elizabeth would have a son, John the Baptist.

2)In the sixth moth of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, March-April, an angel appeared to the Blessed Virgin Mary and said She would have a son, Jesus.

3)Doing the math, 9 months from the time the Angel appeared to Mary Jesus would have been born and that is precisely in the time frame of December-January.

Don’t feel bad about not knowing the year Zacharias was chosen to incense the temple – No one does! It is widely understood that our present day calendar is off by as much as six years from the time of Jesus’ birth.

Also your statement that Jesus was born ‘in the time frame of December-January’ is doubtful.

 

[tabcom]

And for two reasons:​

An anti-pagan one:

• to crowd the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (= the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun) out of the calendar

IMHO, the pagan god is still being worshiped by the majority of the world today.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

does the church teach that Dec. 25th is the actual birthday of Jesus Christ ?? and if so how do we know this ??

Some early theologian calculated the date of Good Friday as 25 March. It was felt that Jesus would have been conceived on exactly the same day as He died, making the Annunication that day also. Add nine months, and you obtain a date for the nativity.

 

[MariaG]

I stopped doing christmas seven years ago. Therefore, I can vouch for this statement.

IMHO, the pagan god is still being worshiped by the majority of the world today.

I disagree with you and in fact, the practice of taking over formerly pagan holidays and dedicating them to God is quite biblical. Since one cannot “accidently” worship anything, those who celbrate Christmas in a secular manner only, are not worshiping a pagan God, and Christians, who have claimed this day for Christ, certainly are not.

**From Envoy Magazine Sept/Oct 1998, ****Smashing Pumpkins **by Brian Paul

The conversion of pagan holidays is actually quite biblical. The Jewish people, under the direction of God, appropriated numerous pagan feasts: feasts of the New Year, combined with the harvest (Numbers 29:1-6; Leviticus 23:23-25), the feasts of the New Moon (1 Kings 20:4-29; Numbers 28:11-15; Nehemiah 10:33-34), grain and fruit harvest feasts (Deuteronomy 16:9-12; Exodus 23:14-16, 34:22) and the rite of new branches (Nehemiah 8:14-15). The people of God have often used pagan feast days upon which to hold Jewish and Christian celebrations. Obviously, Yahweh didn’t think this was corrupting true worship, or giving into paganism.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[tabcom]

Since one cannot “accidently” worship anything, those who celbrate Christmas in a secular manner only, are not worshiping a pagan God, and Christians, who have claimed this day for Christ, certainly are not.

I agree, one cannot accidently worship anything.

It is by deception that Satan works (II Cor 11:3,4,13-15).

II Cor 11:3,4,13-15 But I fear lest by any means as the serpent beguiled (exapatao - seduce wholly) Eve through his subtility (panourgia - shrewd, clever, cunning), so your minds should be corrupted (phtheiro - deprave, ruin, defile) from the simplicity (haplos-singleness, implies pure or holy) that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth “another Jesus”-- (this is not the Jesus of the Bible that says we must take up our cross daily, deny (aparneomai - utterly contradict) ourselves, forsake all that we have or we cannot be his disciple - Luke 9:23;14:27,33) --whom we have not preached, or if ye receive “another spirit”, (small s–the Holy Spirit is Truth - John 14:17, 15:26, & 16:13, 1 John 5:6-- They will preach another truth, which is not the truth at all, but a lie disguised as the truth) – which ye have not received, or “another gospel”,–the true gospel is death to the flesh/self and the resurrection daily in our mortal bodies - 1 Cor 15:1-4, 2 Cor 4:10-12,16,17 - The “other Jesus” requires no death to self, no daily cross, no self denial, but rather, this Jesus does not resurrect in us daily – instead he says to us that we can “distribute fortunes” (daemon) to ourselves thus ruling our own flesh, setting our own rules and overthrowing (diabolos) the law of God in our lives – this gospel is no gospel, that fulfills the flesh.) It is the devil’s counterfeit gospel.-which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. For such are false apostles deceitful (dolios- to live by trickery, decoy, guile) workers, transforming (metaschematizo - disguise or change) themselves into the apostles of Christ (It is the devil disguised as Jesus)–but it is another Jesus. And no marvel - for Satan himself is transformed (metaschematizo - disguised) into an angel of light… Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed (metaschematizo - disguised) as the ministers of righteousness: whose end shall be according to their works. (They will pass themselves off as truth-sayers when they are soothsayers.)

 

[MariaG]

I agree, one cannot accidently worship anything.

It is by deception that Satan works

So you think God’s people were decieved when they took pagan days and made them into days for God?

That Christmas has not actually been claimed by Christians? That non-Christians and/or those who claim to be Chrstians worship the pagan God by celebrating Christ’s birth on Dec 25?

You claim that a great number worship a pagan God, yet also say that no one can worship by accident.

I know of only a few who worship that pagan God.

I am trying to figure out what you mean.

Peace,
Maria

 

[tabcom]

So you think God’s people were deceived when they took pagan days and made them into days for God?

Yes.

From where in scripture does God give warning about being deceived by getting involved paganism?

Deut 12:28
Be careful to heed all these commandments I enjoin on you, that you and your descendants may always prosper for doing what is good and right in the sight of the LORD, your God.
29
"When the LORD, your God, removes the nations from your way as you advance to dispossess them, be on your guard! Otherwise, once they have been wiped out before you and you have replaced them and are settled in their land,
30
you will be lured into following them. Do not inquire regarding their gods, ‘How did these nations worship their gods? I, too, would do the same.’
31
You shall not thus worship the LORD, your God, because they offered to their gods every abomination that the LORD detests, even burning their sons and daughters to their gods.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Don’t feel bad about not knowing the year Zacharias was chosen to incense the temple – No one does! It is widely understood that our present day calendar is off by as much as six years from the time of Jesus’ birth.

Also your statement that Jesus was born ‘in the time frame of December-January’ is doubtful.

The fact is the Gregorian Calendar which was instituted by the Catholic Church is the Calendar the whole world uses today, including the numbering 2007 “AD” (Year of our Lord).

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

From where in scripture does God give warning about being deceived by getting involved paganism?

And when you have a young child you tell them not to talk to any strangers.

When the child grows up, that no longer applies. He can no longer be protected by his parents. He must face the world and make his own way in it.

Similarly your quote is addressed to the Jewish people, before Jesus came to them. At that time it was necessary to separate the Jews from pagan influence, so that a fragile belief in God could grow to maturity. But those Jews who followed Jesus were told that the time had come to abandon that protection. They were to influence the world, not the other way round.

 

[tabcom]

. . . your quote is addressed to the Jewish people, before Jesus came to them.

That is not what the Jesus teaches . . …

Joh 8:56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw {it} and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

Joh 8:58 -
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

At that time it was necessary to separate the Jews from pagan influence, so that a fragile belief in God could grow to maturity.

It would be foolish to simply imply that the times of the Jews of the Old Testament is of no importance to life today.

2Ti 3:16 -
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

With respects to growing faith into maturity, 2 Peter 1:5-11 list 7 things to add to you faith. Absent from the list is taking a pagan holiday and dedicating it to Jesus.

 

[CCenter]

Christmas is entirely pagan and is the continuation of the religious practices of ancient Babylon. Jesus was born on September 11th, 3 B.C. and was earlier conceived on December 13th, 4 B.C. There is nothing about Jesus related to Christmas except man-made customs. Saturnalia was the celebration of the winter solstice from ancient Babylon and Semiramis gave birth to Tammuz on December 25th. The Roman and Greek world worshipped the sun in a religion called Mithraism, and December 25th was the Nativity of the Sun (Sol the sun god). Tammuz was supposedly the rebirth of Nimrod who is also known as Baal. The yule log is from ancient Babylon symbolizing the stump for Nimrod or Baal who was “cut down” by Noah’s son Shem. The green tree decorated with silver and gold and nailed down so that it would not totter was celebrated by ancient Israel as they apostatized (Jeremiah 10:3-4), and there are a number of references in the Old Testament to a green tree as an idol. It is the same Christmas tree customs which people use today for Christmas. The popes in about 350 A.D. deliberately renamed the birth of Sol the sun-god on December 25th as a Christian custom. That is recorded in the Roman writings of that time. All of these Christmas customs were done by the pagans before the day was renamed as a Christian holiday.

Job 14:4
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.