Christopher West

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Dear Joe5859,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.

First, let me say, dear friend, that men are free to entertain differing viewpoints as regards Mr. West’s presentations, but I certainly would not say that the learned critiques of Dawn Eden, David L. Schindler or Alice Von Hilderbrand are “unfair” or “simplistic”, rather they are bang on target in their evaluations and jolly charitable and courteous.

However, there cannot be any serious doubt as to Mr. West’s disordered approach to the topic of human sexuality. Moreover, in his misguided desire to be with it and connect with the spiritually illiterate he has sacrificed that proper holy bashfulness that ought to be the hallmark of any pious teacher of Catholic moral theology. Unfortunately, dear brother, his indelicate and irreverent language undermines and degrades the very message he seeks to communicate to 21st. century man, as well as tarnishing the Church’s image in the eyes of the world.

As regards Janet Smith, her support of Mr. West has been responded to by those who disapprove of his approach and language. Now it is perfectly true, dear friend, that Mr. West made considerable changes to his presentation of Theology of the Body**Explained, but Dr. Smith still continues to ignore some very serious flaws as regards the *content *of the work and not merely the style or tone. To take just one example, Mr. West cannot be unaware that our lot is cast in a radically materialistic society where the cult of the body is dominant. Therefore, one must ask whether further encouragements to idolize the body in our sexualised Western culture is acceptable or appropriate from a Catholic standpoint. Alas, Mr. West places an inordinate emphasis upon the body in a debased age in which everything is already very body-centered. Again, it arrant nonsense to claim that our Church has until recent times been blinded to the deep meaning and beauty of carnal relations as the good Lord intended them. You only have to turn to Francis De Sales to see just how profoundly he understood the meaning that God gave in this sphere. He writes: “It is honourable to all, and in everything, that is, in all parts” (Introduction to the Devout Life, Part III, chap. 38).

It is manifestly untrue that the pre-Conciliar Church understood and taught sexual matters in a repressive manner and that this accounts for why modern man has rejected the Church teaching on sexuality, which has always been holy, wholesome and sublime. Modern man rejected the Church’s teaching on sexuality because of the permissive revolution of the Sixties and his sinful refusal to be subject to what was deemed to be antiquated and exploded teachings of the Christian religion, especially Original Sin and the Fall. That “whole generation with a new explanation” had come to believe in their arrogance (and immorality) that they had come of age and outgrown the idea of God. Thus it is hardly surprising, dear brother, that they hated chastity and virtue and had no wish to strive to live up to the arduous requirements of Christ’s most holy religion. Therefore this whole notion that modern man was only rejecting repressive attitudes/catechesis (rather than authentic teaching) as regards sexual matters is, quite frankly, risible and nothing more than propaganda to support Mr. West’s pet theories.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
Once again Portrait, I ask you…

Do you still agree with the position that:
God did not give women a place, in the Church, the family, or society, to teach men or to have authority over men.

Because if so, you should not be citing a female theologian (since it contradicts you own stated principals).

Moreover, I feel compelled to repeat a question that you have never really answered, despite me asking you repeatedly in numerous threads:
In your ideal world, would women and girls be educated at all?*

*Because after all, it would be easier to restrict women to the domestic sphere and keep them in their place (an idea you and Ron Conte have promoted in the past) if women were illiterate.
 
Dear jilly4ski,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well.

Unfortunately, dear friend, even a beautiful book of Sacred Scripture such as the Song of Solomon, which draws parallels between God’s love and romantic love, will almost inevitably be misrepresented by modern sex obsessed minds.

**Mr. West refers to the Song of Solomon as the “centre-fold of the bible”, but whilst a small number of mystics selected this book as their favourite, they were all celibates who actually allegorized it to the point where the focus was strictly on the ‘spiritual sense’ of the soul’s relationship with his God. ** Indeed, this was to the veritable exclusion of its ‘literal sense’ relating to aspects of human sexuality. However, the purely allegorical interpretation of the book does not really satisfy fully the exegetical requirements of the sacred text and a combination of the parabolic-allegorical interpretation is probably the best way to understand its contents. Thus the Song of Songs is essentially a parable placing side by side, like the Gospel Parables, two facts, an imaginary and a real one and illustrating the one by the other. Now, dear friend, it follows, according to the hermeneutical rules of parables, that many *details * must necessarily be considered mere literary embellishments having no historical reality corresponding to them. This is not to deny, of course, that this beautiful book teaches, at least implicity, a moral lesson on the sanctity of marriage, but it certainly does not lend itself to Mr. West’s literalistic and very irreverent interpretations that he uses to uphold his carnal theories.

The Second Vatican Council made it a priority to reach out to the secular modern world, and quite rightly so. However, dear friend, there will always be a clear and present danger that some men in their misguided zeal will go just go too far by pandering to the godless world in the process. This is what has sadly occured in the case of Mr. West, who in his sincere attempt to connect and make Church teaching accessible to modern man, living in a licentious and promiscuous culture, has placed an inordinate emphasis upon sexuality and the body. No one is questioning his zeal or his sincerity, but the sad fact is that sincere men can be sincerely wrong. What you have with Mr. West is the sexualization of our most holy faith, or rather some truths of the faith, much more than is appropriate or correct and therein lies his disordered approach. As has been well said, the chief problem with his elucidation of H.H.JPII’s Theology of the Body Addresses is that he sexualised the Christian religion rather than Christianized sexuality.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
So we shouldn’t take the words of the Song of Songs at face value because they were written/chosen by celibates?

Why?

Do you think that celibate men cannot write about sex in a clear and reasonable way?

If so, I actually have sympathy for that point of view, but it undermines the whole idea that Catholic priests should be governing the sex lives of the rest of us.
 
also @mcdale,it IS sick to mention eroticism and elevate it to the same level as the word of God. I think it would be good for you, and your ilk, to read the writings of Alice von Hildebrand. Lust is a deadly sin, so top attempting to discredit people who raise questions in objection to Christopher West. You’re basically attempting to attack people who think the “let’s tell all” attitude is inappropriate and it’s not going to work.
I hope you understand that you are promoting the idea that sexual desire/attraction and Lust are one and the same.

Incidentally, that is one of the ideas that Christopher West has tried to combat.
 
Second is that I would suggest you read the arguments of Fr. Angelo Geiger who sums West up pretty well.
 
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