Christ's Cross, lower case t, or upper case T

[YourAverageJoe]

I was told that it was probable Jesus’ cross was more like an upper case “T” rather than lower case “t”. This becuase the upper case T would simpler to assemble…I dont know… Thoughts?

In Christ!

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I was told that it was probable Jesus’ cross was more like an upper case “T” rather than lower case “t”. This becuase the upper case T would simpler to assemble…I dont know… Thoughts?

In Christ!

Throughout history it has always been seen as a ‘t’, especially because there was a sign hung above His head:
Mat 27: 37Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
The ‘big T’ cross doesn’t leave room for this.
Sadly, today, many argue for ‘big T’ shape because they want to undermine the cross by making the traditional view sound wrong and thus imply the whole thing was mythical.

 

[Sideline]

I was told that it was probable Jesus’ cross was more like an upper case “T” rather than lower case “t”. This becuase the upper case T would simpler to assemble…I dont know… Thoughts?

In Christ!

There are very few accounts, or hard evidence, of how the Romans crucified people. The few reports that there are describe different ways of doing it.

It does not describe the shape of the cross in the Bible, so it is really impossible to say.

 

[Sideline]

Throughout history it has always been seen as a ‘t’, especially because there was a sign hung above His head:
Mat 27: 37Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
The ‘big T’ cross doesn’t leave room for this.
Sadly, today, many argue for ‘big T’ shape because they want to undermine the cross by making the traditional view sound wrong and thus imply the whole thing was mythical.

Put your arms above your head for a moment. Is there enough room between your wrists and your head for a sign to be there?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Put your arms above your head for a moment. Is there enough room between your wrists and your head for a sign to be there?

I would say ‘no’, and I would say that is the worst place to put a sign because of the limited space and chance your arms could cover the words. Plus, the ‘big T’ leaves no room to place your hands, much less a sign, above your head.

 

[Sideline]

I would say ‘no’, and I would say that is the worst place to put a sign because of the limited space and chance your arms could cover the words. Plus, the ‘big T’ leaves no room to place your hands, much less a sign, above your head.

You must have some pretty short arms. Seriously, put your hands straight up. My girlfriend is 5’4". I just measured the distance between her wrists and the top of her head. It was about a square foot of space. Lots of room for a sign. I don’t think you need to worry the person’s arms covering the words since they will be nailed in place. As for having no room for your hand on a T… I can’t even imagine a scenario where you wouldn’t have enough room for your hands, so I don’t know how to answer that. You would put your hands in the same place you would put them if there was a part above the T.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

You must have some pretty short arms. Seriously, put your hands straight up. My girlfriend is 5’4". I just measured the distance between her wrists and the top of her head. It was about a square foot of space. Lots of room for a sign. I don’t think you need to worry the person’s arms covering the words since they will be nailed in place. As for having no room for your hand on a T… I can’t even imagine a scenario where you wouldn’t have enough room for your hands, so I don’t know how to answer that. You would put your hands in the same place you would put them if there was a part above the T.

Oh, you’ve got me confused here. Whether it is a ‘t’ or a ‘T’ your hands are not straight above your head the way you are describing.

Also, more importantly, from what you are describing, a square foot of space is really not much room to do anything with.

 

[Sideline]

Oh, you’ve got me confused here. Whether it is a ‘t’ or a ‘T’ your hands are not straight above your head the way you are describing.

Also, more importantly, from what you are describing, a square foot of space is really not much room to do anything with.

I’m not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I meant, put your hands straight up. Like… how you would hold your hands if there were a stick up. Even if they were out a bit from your shoulders, there is plenty of space for a sign.

How big does this sign need to be? My entire monitor could fit in the space between my wrists and head.

I think there would be enough room, but there isn’t any reason it couldn’t be a “t”. It could be an X for all I know, or an X with a cross beam across the top, or a Y. Does it really matter?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I’m not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I meant, put your hands straight up. Like… how you would hold your hands if there were a stick up. Even if they were out a bit from your shoulders, there is plenty of space for a sign.

How big does this sign need to be? My entire monitor could fit in the space between my wrists and head.

I think there would be enough room, but there isn’t any reason it couldn’t be a “t”. It could be an X for all I know, or an X with a cross beam across the top, or a Y. Does it really matter?

Oh, you are talking about a “field goal” hands-up type picture, I thought you meant hands straight up touching eachother as if you were going to dive. You kept saying hands “above” the head, so I saw an I shape rather than in a Y shape.

In that case, your hands could leave a big enough room for a decent sized sign and either at T or t would work.

 

[Sideline]

Oh, you are talking about a “field goal” hands-up type picture, I thought you meant hands straight up touching eachother as if you were going to dive. You kept saying hands “above” the head, so I saw an I shape rather than in a Y shape.

In that case, your hands could leave a big enough room for a decent sized sign and either at T or t would work.

Yes, like that!

I see what you mean, though. I probably should have said, “straight up” or something like that. I could see my hands when I was doing it, so of course I knew exactly what I meant.

 

[Pons]

Rembrandt did depict the cross as a big T with the sign above Christ’s head: link

 

[survive]

There were various cross styles used in the Roman Empire. Little t makes more sense as the material is wood and can split. They would probably have mostly tried to avoid driving the nails that join the pieces so close to the end of the support piece.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Rembrandt did depict the cross as a big T with the sign above Christ’s head: link

Good call.

 

[Pax]

Thinking about this from the view of a wood worker so that the cross would be strong and reusable, I would venture to say that the small “t” is more likely than the large “T.”

The lap joint technique at the intersection of the two cross components would seem to be the strongest and most rigid way to construct it. The lap joint technique involves notching both members half way through and then assembling them like Lincoln logs. Heavy nails or bolts could then be used to keep them in place. They could even be lashed together. The lap joint technique tends to make them act as one piece and would offer the strength required to support the human body even with contortions during the course of the execution.

A lap joint at the top of the big “T” would offer less strength and rigidity and any other joining technique would be weaker still. This is, of course, my mere speculation based upon what would appear to be the most practical approach to building a cross for the purpose of execution.

Any other ideas?

 

[Sideline]

Thinking about this from the view of a wood worker so that the cross would be strong and reusable, I would venture to say that the small “t” is more likely than the large “T.”

You could be right, that the above method was the most secure and structurally sound method, but from the accounts of the time, they used several different methods to crucify people. People don’t always use the best available method.

For instance, I can prove that using a seatbelt is safer than not using a seatbelt. That doesn’t mean that any particular person is using a seatbelt right now.

From my understanding, when the T cross was used, the upright was a sharpened point that fit into a hollowed bored into the cross beam.

 

[Pax]

You could be right, that the above method was the most secure and structurally sound method, but from the accounts of the time, they used several different methods to crucify people. People don’t always use the best available method.

For instance, I can prove that using a seatbelt is safer than not using a seatbelt. That doesn’t mean that any particular person is using a seatbelt right now.

From my understanding, when the T cross was used, the upright was a sharpened point that fit into a hollowed bored into the cross beam.

Something like that might work…a straight mortise and tenon joint would be even better. That could be it.

 

[Abby_Fletcher]

argument for “t”:

Wasn’t St. Peter crucified upside down, because he didn’t think he was worth of of dying like Christ? well, if it was a T, then upside down would be pretty difficult, wouldn’t it?

although, now that i think about it, that just lends credence to St. Peter’s cross being a “t”, not necessarily Christ’s.

 

[zach_dunn]

I’m curious as to why people even bring up the subject. Who cares what shape the cross was in? The cross doesn’t itself mean anything, right? It’s what Jesus did on the cross for all of us that matters.

Pax,
Zach