Chronic pain, marijuana, and sanctifying grace- a dilemma

[fido]

The teachings of the church do indicate that taking *illegal *drugs is a mortal sin.

If a drug is legalized, then it suddenly becomes NOT a mortal sin to ingest it? What is the principle here? Are you telling me that god looks to politicians to decide on what constitutes a mortal sin?

Most peoples have known that murder, stealing and infidelity are wrong, along with excessive intoxication.

Of course, the way for a society to function in this imperfect world is to come up with mutual agreements. Let’s not murder, steal, or lie to each other (in court). Then we must set up a system to deal with these offenders. ALL law is backed up by the threat of force. We know that a person who owns sneakers COULD sneak into a home and rob it. But we do not make owning sneakers against the law, we only make the harmful act ITSELF illegal. It would be immoral to ban sneakers. The same is true for alcohol and other drugs. A person can own and ingest these things without harming another person. Therefore drug prohibition is immoral.

Now fido’s promotion of the use of marijuana implies that it’s harmless (both in a moral and physical sense).

I never promoted the use, nor implied the harmlessness of, Marijuana. People should choose for themselves. But now that you mentioned it, Marijuana is basically as harmful as cigarettes and beer. Though I do think by most measures it is more beneficial and less harmful than both of those.

Should we no longer have any DUI laws? According to fido, “Threatening violence against someone for attempting to put something in their OWN bodies is immoral.” So it’s not immoral to ingest a substance that can cause harm to yourself or others?

I obviously didn’t mean that “we no longer should have any DUI laws”. The law is against DRIVING under the influence, not merely BEING under the influence. A DUI law does not violate the moral code that you cannot threaten violence against others for ingesting. The DUI law threatens violence against those who ingest AND drive.

Another important point about using illegal drugs: THEY SUPPORT CRIMINAL ENTERPRISES. Many gangs get the bulk of their money from selling illegal drugs. This alone makes it immoral and a serious sin to me

So you would agree that the laws that CREATED this black market are immoral. Prohibition is a gift to criminals who would otherwise not get to enterprise off of a substance. Alcohol related gang violence existed for ten years in this country. Where is this violence now? You seem nice but you have obviously not given any thought to this subject. If you still want to debate me you can, but you might just have to humble yourself and admit that I am right. If you walk into a voting booth and choose to uphold prohibition laws, then you are helping gangs and terrorists fund their organizations.
But I can see where you are going with your thought process. From what you said, I can conclude that since foie gras is illegal in some states, its illegality “alone makes it immoral and a serious sin to (you)”. A person offers you some goose liver in Chicago and you consider it a “serious sin” to partake? Do you really think God is this petty?

(and if you use the arguement or growing your own plants, remember that at some point down the line, the seeds came from somewhere else).

Right, at some point down the line, the seeds came from the earth. The original status of Marijuana was a weed that grows. If I grow my own and sell it and give it away, then I have actually taken market share AWAY from the gangs.

And as a personal note, I know of several people who became “burnouts” after excessive use of marijuana at college.
My advice to Asbestos Mango would be to stick to all possible legal options (including whatever free medical assistance he can find). Good Luck and God Bless You.

I never claimed that marijuana was harmless. Though from my personal experience, most of the people who smoked pot are just normal people. I guess I didn’t travel in the circles that you did. The ones who smoked the weed were the ones who were smart enough to disbelieve the hype and ambitious enough to use it in moderation.​

My advice to Asbestos Mango is to read the testimonials of others, and ask doctors about it. My experience is that pot is as easy to get as water, but always remember that you do NOT own your body in this country. The federal government is partial owner, and therefore you cannot LEGALLY make decisions for yourself. Sure, some states try to legalize medical marijuana, but the feds have been unconstitutionally usurping these laws.

 

[faddat]

I don’t think that we’re called to obey unjust laws… I belive that we’re called to fight them.

However, that’s not my point.

Here’s my point:

I’ve been in TERRIBLE pain for 2 years, 5 months from a car accident. I’ve tried everything, and I currently take TONS of narcotic painkillers, with little relief (though they DO provide SOME relief.) When I came back to the US, I had using Marijuana for pain in mind. I did that, and it was a MIRACLE. The reduction in my pain was incredible. Then I found out that the pain clinic I was seeing had a policy of drug testing its patients. I told them what I was doing, they told me not to do it, and I didn’t, and that was the total result of the drug test.

I was crying from pain yesterday. I smoked marijuana. I could use the stairs. I could walk properly. I could move around my house.

Our God is a good god, a loving God. God doesn’t want me to suffer like this. We have a system that isn’t fully taking into account God’s love and so we allow people to suffer (in many ways, not just this one) through our ignorance of their suffering.

To the OP, I say: DO IT, IF IT WORKS FOR YOU. Me, my situation is complicated by the pain clinic. I don’t know what to do. I do know that after smoking I was MUCH more lucid than I was when I was in tears - definitely not a floor pillow.

Here’s my simple argument: God is good, and so is Jesus. Both God and His son want us to live our lives well, with a minimum of suffering, a maximum of joy and love for their creation. Sometimes bad things happen to good people (like car accidents.) I think God is good, so I think God doesn’t want me to suffer from my car accident. I also think that my doctor doesn’t want me to suffer, he’s just misinformed, plus his hands are tied by our bad laws.

It is a SAD, SAD situation people. I wish that I had a better answer. I don’t want to break the law. I want to live a functional life. I don’t want to get “high.” I want to live a functional life.

OP, you’ll be in my prayers. Let your conscience, the bible, and the teachings of the Church be your guide. God is Good and Merciful. He does not want for you to suffer.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Then why the Cross?

 

[BiologyBrain]

To the OP - I would move forward w/ trying to get a legal prescription for the mj. Until that comes I would continue as you are - pray & abstain from the mj. I know that during your time of the month & probably during allergy season your prostaglandins are increased & that leads to increased pain sensation. I think there is a drug out there thats a prostaglandin blocker, but I can’t seem to remember its name &/or if that was actually the purpose of the drug or a ‘side effect’. I’m wondering if perhaps you have histamine receptors in your back due to your injury. That would explain why your allergies & time of the month irritate your back worse. Does taking a histamine blocker work at all?

Re: Legalizing drugs - specifically mj

MJ is known to relive pain, but it also inhibits judgement and perception. The only way I think mj should be allowed is like alcohol - on a limited basis. In other words, no driving while high (or drunk), etc. However, part of the problem w/ that is that it is more difficult to ‘prove’ someone is currently high vs. someone who has been high in the last 6 months. MJ (THC & the canabanoids) can and do stay in tissue for extended periods of time. However, alcohol is generally eliminated from the system at the average rate of 1 drink equivalent per hour. Therefore, it is very easy to test for acceptable levels of alcohol in someone’s system. Of course, w/ more research, perhaps mj will become more readily detected/differentiated. For now, its easier to clearly state that mj use is illegal.

Its also important to note that taking any prescription drugs that alter your mental state and then driving can (and does) lead to DUI arrests. From reading some of the replies, I don’t think some people realize that.

Re: Just laws

I don’t think any drug laws are unjust. The argument that its like slavery to outlaw drugs doesn’t take into account the fact that drug users have altered states of perception & judgement & therefore harm others. That’s why drug laws are ultimately just - its for the preservation of society. The only way the laws could be unjust would be if they’re counter to natural law. Since the preservation of society is actually part of natural law - drug laws therefore are just laws. Also many drugs make the users into slaves to the drugs themselves and/or the dealers/suppliers/pushers. That doesn’t benefit the individual drug user, but it does benefit the dealer/suppliers/pushers who usually aren’t the cream of the crop anyway.

 

[noclevername]

I didn’t read all of the posts but it never ceases to amaze me how people who are addicted to marijuana continually try to justify it. YES, I said addicted. When someone chooses to smoke pot, is convinced it helps in their job, literally decides to choose pot over his marriage, yes it is addictive. This is why I divorced my husband. He chose pot over me after 10 years of marriage.

And the OP uses the same ole same ole justifications “is safer than painkillers” blah blah blah.

I know I am negative but any justification for illegally smoking pot is just a smoke screen and you are lying to yourself.

And I have never heard of pot as a pain killer. Whatever!!!

And if you are too poor to go to a pain clinic and complaining about your employer not getting enough jobs to keep you employed then how are you paying for the pot? I think youi need to wise up, get a real job and quit smoking pot.

 

[faddat]

Fortunately for our salvation, God sent his only son to earth to suffer, die, and be buried; and to resurrect and earn humanity’s salvation. God cared enough about us to do that - Christ cared enough to suffer as he did.

They did that so we can enjoy eternal life.

They care about us. They want us to be good stewards of the earth. In order for me to be a steward of anything, I need to be in less pain. It was a bad car accident. The pain leaves me in tears. God would rather I live a productive life than have me suffering. God wouldn’t have given us the tools we have to alleviate suffering if he wanted us to suffer here on earth.

Our suffering seems largely self-induced - not something that God wants, something that happens because of man’s circumstances.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Fortunately for our salvation, God sent his only son to earth to suffer, die, and be buried; and to resurrect and earn humanity’s salvation. God cared enough about us to do that - Christ cared enough to suffer as he did.

They did that so we can enjoy eternal life.

They care about us. They want us to be good stewards of the earth. In order for me to be a steward of anything, I need to be in less pain. It was a bad car accident. The pain leaves me in tears. God would rather I live a productive life than have me suffering. God wouldn’t have given us the tools we have to alleviate suffering if he wanted us to suffer here on earth.

Our suffering seems largely self-induced - not something that God wants, something that happens because of man’s circumstances.

I’m not trying to be cruel. I suffer from chronic pain as well. But can you show me Scriptural and Magisterial basis for these assertions?

And why not offer up your pain to bring down graces?

 

[alternative]

I am a patient prescribed to (marijuana) or cannabis I am not a dead beat or a drug addict. I care about my health a lot I run 2 miles a day and am a strict vegan 90 percent of the food I eat is organic I do not drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes. I have a medical problem and I do not want to take pills to help me with my pain. I choose cannabis because it has never once caused an overdose, cancer, liver problems or many other side affects that are caused by all other drugs. Aspirin kills about 700 people per year but cannabis has not ever killed anyone. It could be considered the safest drug known. Scientist can not overdose lab rats using THC the active drug in cannabis. When you smoke a drug it works instantly you can take just enough and stop pills take time to dissolve there amounts are how much a drug co. put in a capsule not how much you need. Some times I wake up at night in pain I can take a couple of hits cannabis and go back to sleep and only be awake 5 min when I took pills I would sit in pain in a chair for a half hour weighting for relief and then have trouble going to sleep because of being fully awakened then waking up with a pill hang over or “pill head.”

 

[alternative]

How Dangerous is Marijuana
Compared with other Substances?

Number of American deaths per year that result directly or primarily from the following selected causes nationwide, according to World Almanacs, Life Insurance Actuarial (death) Rates, and the last 20 years of U.S. Surgeon Generals’ reports.

TOBACCO 340,000 to 450,000
ALCOHOL (Not including 50% of all highway deaths and 65% of all murders) 150,000+
ASPIRIN (Including deliberate overdose) 180 to 1,000+
CAFFEINE (From stress, ulcers, and triggering irregular heartbeats, etc.) 1,000 to 10,000
“LEGAL” DRUG OVERDOSE (Deliberate or accidental) from legal, prescribed or patent medicines and/or mixing with alcohol - e.g. Valium/alcohol 14,000 to 27,000
ILLICIT DRUG OVERDOSE (Deliberate or accidental) from all illegal drugs. 3,800 to 5,200
MARIJUANA 0

 

[alternative]

Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality.

This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.

By contrast aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year.

Drugs used in medicine are routinely given what is called an LD-50. The LD-50 rating indicates at what dosage fifty percent of test animals receiving a drug will die as a result of drug induced toxicity. A number of researchers have attempted to determine marijuana’s LD-50 rating in test animals, without success. Simply stated, researchers have been unable to give animals enough marijuana to induce death.

At present it is estimated that marijuana’s LD-50 is around 1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.

In practical terms, marijuana cannot induce a lethal response as a result of drug-related toxicity.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Dredging up an old thread to tout the benefits of pot-smoking? Must be the heat.

And nooooooo, pot never ever caused a single iota of harm to anyone, as compared to that evil concoction, aspirin!

 

[alternative]

Dredging up an old thread to tout the benefits of pot-smoking? Must be the heat.

And nooooooo, pot never ever caused a single iota of harm to anyone, as compared to that evil concoction, aspirin!

when someone douse not have a good point or looses a debate they end up name calling and making bad jokes. this it the being childish and is a sign of a no self control. why can you not come up with facts?

 

[flyingfish]

Some places allow marijuana to be used for medical purposes. If you have a serious illness and it’s what helps you best I don’t see the problem.

Not all laws are just laws, I personally don’t think it’s just to forbid marijuana to people who need it to function with their illnesses. It is one thing when people use it as a recreational drug, but people also use prescription drugs recreationally and we don’t make those illegal.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

when someone douse not have a good point or looses a debate they end up name calling and making bad jokes. this it the being childish and is a sign of a no self control. why can you not come up with facts?

I don’t get it. Facts about what? The ‘harmlessness’ of pot? There aren’t any.

Why are you so keen to sell people on an illegal drug? You got yours. Why must the rest of us follow suit? Will you feel better if you have company?

 

[jdemott]

I suffer from chronic back pain…I have never and will never use marijuana for pain…And guess what I don’t use any drugs either. I go to an acupuncturist regularly and I get immediate and long lasting relief. It’s covered by insurance. I get relief and it’s 100% legal.In addition, I have been giving abdominal strengthening exercises which put less stress on my back muscles. I am dieting and as a result, I feel and have much more energy. If I can do it, anyone can.

I don’t need to procrastinate my substance abuse either or compromise my faith or hurt my family by taking it. Grow up and use another alternative and stop looking for excuses to validate your drug addiction…get help with your addiction instead and your back pain will be healed too.

First of all, get on your knees and thank God for all your blessings and instead of going to God as the last resort…make it your first.

This is a very charitable post. It’s posts like these that really make me proud of my catholic brothers and sisters.