Chronic pain, marijuana, and sanctifying grace- a dilemma

[lizaanne]

I suffer from chronic back pain…I have never and will never use marijuana for pain…And guess what I don’t use any drugs either. I go to an acupuncturist regularly and I get immediate and long lasting relief. It’s covered by insurance. I get relief and it’s 100% legal.In addition, I have been giving abdominal strengthening exercises which put less stress on my back muscles. I am dieting and as a result, I feel and have much more energy. If I can do it, anyone can.

I don’t need to procrastinate my substance abuse either or compromise my faith or hurt my family by taking it. Grow up and use another alternative and stop looking for excuses to validate your drug addiction…get help with your addiction instead and your back pain will be healed too.

First of all, get on your knees and thank God for all your blessings and instead of going to God as the last resort…make it your first.

I’m just appalled at the lack of charity in this post. You make a lot of assumptions about someone’s condition and situation. No one can compare or equate their pain and pain management with another person’s - there are just way to many variables. What works for you may not work for others.


Anyway - to the OP - I will pray for you that you are able to improve your financial situation, and that your pain is improved by some other means other than something that makes you question your actions. The fact that you are even asking tells me you yourself think there is an issue. I hope this works out for you, my mother suffered with severe back pain for years, and was in a wheel chair at one point, until she had some life restoring surgery. She is now pain free and drug free. But I realize that may be an impossibility for you with no insurance. How very very sad this country is at times.

~Liza

 

[Asbestos_Mango]

nana3, my heart goes out to you.

Fortunately, my pain isn’t that agonizing all the times- a lot of the time it’s just nuisance level, and I just tolerate it with no medication.There are times, though, that it can be downright excruciating. Right now, my allergies are acting up, so my back is also flaring up, and it is the most irritating thing. You know how when you have allergies, your sinuses get that hot, itchy, burning feeling? That’s what my back feels like right now. A lot better than it was yesterday, though. I have a good air filter, and that helps, but I was out running around yesterday. Went to mass last night, too. I think it helped.

Yes, I’ve done magnets, and they do help, untill they fall off when I’m in the bathroom and get flushed down the toilet . A lot of things, including massage, help, but nothing ever completely gets rid of the pain. At best, I can go from excruciating to tolerable. I’m a massage therapist, BTW, and can’t afford regular massage. I do sometimes swap with my coworkers, but with scheduling conflicts, it can be difficult to organize. I will now pause briefly so y’all can contemplate the irony.

Actually, getting back to nana3’s comments, I really think that God has allowed me to suffer this way to teach me compassion for others who are hurting. I can understand the pain my clients are in, because I’ve lived it.

 

[LSK]

I agree with Nana…I too am a FMS and CFS sufferer - and good old RA … I have had both knees replaced and my hands are becoming more than simply swollen - they are becoming down right ugly to look at because of the RA…the constant pain can feed the depression OR it can be an incredible source of grace and prayer.

May I make a suggestion? There is a book called Full Catastrophe Living and you can get a used copy, I’m sure, online. It has helped me tremendously with chronic pain and I have seen it help countless others as well. There is nothing in its ideas or suggestions that run contrary to our Catholic Faith and it offers fabulous alternatives to medicine, legal or illegal.

 

[Asbestos_Mango]

Hey, yeah, cool, I’ll see if I can dig up a copy. I’m always interested in alternative health care.

OK, I’m going to get away from the computer now and go do some exercises. If I sit at it too long, it makes my pain worse.

 

[sasafr]

You said in your original post that the pain is disabling preventing you from working then you maybe able to qualify for medicare. If so, then you’d have health insurance and would be able to find legal ways to manage your pain. Also, you could look for a health care center in your area for low income, you may be able to find a place that works on a sliding scale and would be more affordable for you. I hope you find a legal way to handle your pain.

IMO, smoking pot is a mortal sin, while it is less harmful them some of the other drugs it is still illegal. By smoking pot you are knowly breaking a law of your country and that is a grave matter punishable by time in prison. it also fits the requirements for a mortal sin
* Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
* Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
* Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
While, it may not seem like a grave matter because you can rationalize it, the court systems do not see it that way which makes it a grave matter. But, that’s only my view on that matter.

 

[ack]

Your opinion is that the laws against marijuana are unjust…but are you able to back up your opinion with Catholic teaching? The church tells us that we are not required to follow unjust laws, but I don’t think the justice of a law is something that we can decide on our own.

I would see a sympathetic doctor and see if you can get a prescription…honestly, from what you’ve said, I don’t see any reason why one would deny you. If a sympathetic doctor refuses to prescribe marijuana to you, then probably he/she has a point and marijuana is really not the best treatment for your condition.

Either way, you won’t get in a situation where you need to disobey the law, and then the point is moot.

Well, that’s most of the point.

The rest of it is that I genuinely believe the laws against marijuana to be unjust- I really don’t want to digress into a discussion of the history of marijuana prohibition, I’m going to just say I’ve done a lot of research on the topic over the years and I’ve seen a lot of evidence that the laws were placed into effect for unjust reasons, and that the government’s own scientists have recommended that prohibition of pot be repealed. So, the rest of my question is, even if I couldn’t get medical approval, (I’m actually fairly certain that I could) would I be within the bounds of morality by using it, as long as it was exclusively for the purposes of pain relief, based on the law being unjust?

 

[deb1]

You said in your original post that the pain is disabling preventing you from working then you maybe able to qualify for medicare. If so, then you’d have health insurance and would be able to find legal ways to manage your pain. Also, you could look for a health care center in your area for low income, you may be able to find a place that works on a sliding scale and would be more affordable for you. I hope you find a legal way to handle your pain.

IMO, smoking pot is a mortal sin, while it is less harmful them some of the other drugs it is still illegal. By smoking pot you are knowly breaking a law of your country and that is a grave matter punishable by time in prison. it also fits the requirements for a mortal sin

• Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
• Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
• Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
  While, it may not seem like a grave matter because you can rationalize it, the court systems do not see it that way which makes it a grave matter. But, that’s only my view on that matter.

I thought that the op’s concern was that a doctor write a prescription for her. Then wouldn’t it be legal and not a mortal sin?

 

[sasafr]

As of this time the OP does not have a perscription for it. So wether or not the use of legal medicinal marijuna is a sin doesn’t matter. If she has a perscription then it is not a sin. She is currently breaking a law, her question of if it would be a sin if she obtained it legally, through a doctor came up later. I never said that if she could obtain it legally it was a sin, but focused on the fact that it is illegal to have.

 

[nana3]

Yes, I’ve done magnets, and they do help, untill they fall off when I’m in the bathroom and get flushed down the toilet . A lot of things, including massage, help, but nothing ever completely gets rid of the pain. At best, I can go from excruciating to tolerable. I’m a massage therapist, BTW, and can’t afford regular massage. I do sometimes swap with my coworkers, but with scheduling conflicts, it can be difficult to organize. I will now pause briefly so y’all can contemplate the irony.

Actually, getting back to nana3’s comments, I really think that God has allowed me to suffer this way to teach me compassion for others who are hurting. I can understand the pain my clients are in, because I’ve lived it.

I agree massage does help but it is expensive also. I understand your pain while you give massages. My sister is a LMT also and it hurts her back and hands. She is back in school to study something else, a nurse or Physical Therapist. I sometimes get massages from her, but I need therapeutic massages and she is newly graduated and not specialized in that. I do agree that nothing, but a miracle, will take all the pain away.

I wanted to ask. You say the magnets fall in the toilet, but there are other magnets that you put in your shoes as insoles. There are back ones also and I guess that is the one you have.

Yes, sitting at this computer for too long also increases my pain. I have to take a antiimflammatory and muscle relaxant as well as a medication for nerve pain. Yes, I am a mess. Oh well, thank God for Holy Hours and daily Eucharist.

I will keep you in prayers for I know how it can be. It is hard to make a living as a LMT as well. So many of you have to get other jobs as well. I use to see one regularly after my MVA’s and my car insurance paid it all. It was great, but my LMT charge the insurance company too much. He was great in therapeutic massage and stone therapy. I wish I could go back and see him, but medicare doesn’t cover them or not least not for long.

I too had to apply for Social Security and years later finally won it. If you were to look at me, you would never tell that I live in chronic pain and this caused the doctors to think I was faking it. I don’t use a cane or any other device and this didn’t help, not that my walking was not impaired when I am in so much pain. One day, when I stopped at a Dunkin Donuts for breakfast, I parted in the handicap parking and have a permit. Anyway, I heard this man across the parking lot yelling and screaming. I thought he was angry at his wife, but he was yelling at me and said I shouldn’t be in handicap for I am fine and look fine. I ignored him and entered the restaurant. The cashier was laughing for the man looked ridiculous. He doesn’t know me or my symptoms. Oh well, what can you do?

 

[Courtneyjo]

Chronic pain sufferers know that pain is a constant companion, and can ebb and flow, sometimes with the weather, it seems.

My physical therapist recommeded the book “Pain Free: A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain” by Pete Egoscue. The author talks alot about body mechanics, and how pain in one part of the body can be caused by misalignment of another part. He offers exercises that are static, that is, you get into a certain position and stay that way for a few minutes. His book was an eye-opener for me. I’ve used the plan outlined in the book for a month, and although I’m not pain-free, it does offer some relief.

I have a friend who swears by yoga to help relieve her bad back pain. Also my former LMT said she would have had to retire years ago if not for the yoga exercises she did.

:twocents:

 

[Sandi]

Hmmmmm…well, I don’t think it’s God’s will for us to suffer unnecessarily from pain and I’m certain he’s a lot more merciful about this situation than poster stbruno is.

I’m kind of in the same boat you are. I’ve tried accupuncture and it hasn’t helped at all. If my pain should become chronic and intractable, I’d consider marijuana.

I wish I were as righteous as some people but I’m just a poor, humble sinner trying to do the best I can – and I bet you are, too.

 

[stbruno]

Jeff Cavins and Matthew Pinto, the editors of Amazing Grace for Those Who Suffer, understand this. “Where the suffering of humanity and the suffering of God intersect, we find profound meaning,” they point out in the introduction. “When our lives are joined with Christ . . . every aspect of our lives change, even our suffering” (p. 12). The editors explain how Catholic tradition from Paul to John Paul II has taught that our sufferings play a role in God’s plan of redemption.

In this book, ten people tell their painful stories. Some began their suffering already in close communion with the Lord; others were brought closer because of their suffering. All bathe their struggles in prayer, and all teach us holiness in the face of overwhelming adversity.
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0302revw.asp

Suffering is subjective. All people have different pain tolerances, however everyone can make their suffering redemptive if they choose. Cardinal Bernadin did it as he was facing terminal cancer in is book the Gift of Peace. Here is an excerpt.
**"*Come to me all you who are weary and find life burdensome."

****On August 31, 1996, the day after I announced that the cancer had spread to my liver and was inoperable, I presided at a communal anointing of the sick at Saint Barbara Church in Brookfield, Illinois. I told my fellow sick that, when we are faced with serious illness (or any serious difficulty), we should do several things–things that have given me peace of mind personally.

The first is to put ourselves completely in the hands of the Lord. We must believe that the Lord loves us, embraces us, never abandons us (especially in our most difficult moments). This is what gives us hope in the midst of life’s suffering and chaos. It is the same Lord who invites us: “Come to me all you who are weary and find life burdensome, and I will refresh you. Take my yoke upon your shoulders and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart. Your souls will find rest, for my yoke is easy and my burden light” (Mt 11:28-30).

This is a favorite passage of mine and, possibly, one of yours also. It is so comforting, so soothing. Perhaps it also sounds too good to be true. Indeed, further reflection shows that Jesus’ message is a bit more complex than it appears at first sight or hearing*.

Some of the posters may think I am being harsh in my judgment. In fact, I am not judging at all. I am just offering suggestions that have worked with many people…one thing I know that as a counselor of teens, marijuana is a gateway drug. Cannabis is not as harmless as presupposed. If you are terminal, and your doctor recommends it, then follow your dr’s orders. However, if you have a chronic problem, there are many other viable alternatives.
[drugprevent.demon.co.uk/New%20look%20of%20Website/homepage/ma(name removed by moderator)age11.html](http://www.drugprevent.demon.co.uk/New look of Website/homepage/ma(name removed by moderator)age11.html)

 

[Asbestos_Mango]

As of this time the OP does not have a perscription for it. So wether or not the use of legal medicinal marijuna is a sin doesn’t matter. If she has a perscription then it is not a sin. **She is currently breaking a law, **her question of if it would be a sin if she obtained it legally, through a doctor came up later. I never said that if she could obtain it legally it was a sin, but focused on the fact that it is illegal to have.

Did you read the posts where I said I’ve already stopped using, and if I’m not approved for medical use, I don’t intend to start using it again?

Here in Nevada, medical help for low income people is extremely difficult to get. You have to prove employment and income, a dicey proposition for an independent contractor, especially since my employer (who was my business practices instructor) isn’t the best of all record keepers. Last year’s 1099 would not likely be considered proof of current income, and I don’t get stubs on my checks.

I may qualify for SSI, since that’s federal. I’ll have to look into it.

 

[Cristiano]

This is a really touchy topic for me because a friend of mine is stranded in bed with chronic pain as a consequence of an accident and poor medical care after it. The sources of chronic pain can be different and I think that giving medical advice here based on the post information is ridiculous.

I have seen how my friend cannot stand for more than a few seconds because of the pain, and he can sit up a few minutes at the time. He had surgeries, physical treatments, epidural injections, he takes a huge amount of pain killers every day and things are not working out. Now he is considering the possibility of having an automatic dispenser of morphine.

Considering that prolonged use of morphine will kill a person, I think that now looking into medical use of marijuana is a reasonable thing to do. Now we should consider if its use is sinful or not. The intrinsic use of this chemical has not been considered a grave matter as I know of it (please disprove me if I am wrong) so the sin is defined by the intent of its use and we are going into the same real of discussion as morphine or other drugs. Bottom line marijuana could be used depending on the intent.

The second topic is if the intent is proper can marijuana be used if it is not allowed by a secular law? That again depends on the intent of breaking the law. This is going back to the idea of working during the sabbath or appropriating someone else food if it is the only way to avoid death by starvation. We are bound to secular law until such a law is for the good of man and is in step with the natural law. When that does not happen there are situations where a person with a well formed conscience might or even should disobey the secular law.

I think that when there is a legal alternative that works, then a person does not have a justification to break the law. However, if the legal alternative does not work then a person must deal with its own conscience (that includes talking to a priest) and figure out what is the proper thing to do.

 

[LSK]

PLEASE have your friend look into the book I recommended…Full Catastrophe Living. The practices have helped so many in his/her condition.

I will pray for them…and I am sure God must love them very much to have them have to endure this much pain in this lifetime…please, have them pray for US!

 

[nana3]

This is a really touchy topic for me because a friend of mine is stranded in bed with chronic pain as a consequence of an accident and poor medical care after it. The sources of chronic pain can be different and I think that giving medical advice here based on the post information is ridiculous.

I am so sorry for your friend and will pray for him or her. It they have tried everything possible and have nothing else to lose, may I suggest they try magnets from Nikken. I met a woman who told me this story. She is a RN and was working one day when all of a sudden she could not read the material she was reading. It looked like a foreign language to her. Then she could not even stand up or walk. Her system, especially her immune system, was shutting down. Her doctors did not give her long to live. She was bed ridden and could not even stand for a minute without excuriating pain. She was on heavy pain killers and decided to just get rid of them all when she knew she wasn’t going to live long. Her sister arrived one day and put a magnetic pad on her mattress and a quilt made with magnets on it. She told her that she had nothing to lose and this could not hurt her, but could help, but no guarantee. It took her four weeks when she could actually stand up for the first time with only a little pain. She improved from there on. She now, of course, tells everyone who suffers about these Nikken magnetic products. I have not used them, but would like to, but they are very expensive. If someone could afford it for your friend, it may be worth the try. I personally am saving up for it and really want it. I have heard others tell of the use of magnetic therapy and how much better they feel and pain free. I use to use the insoles, but then they broke and never got another one until the other day. I already feel the difference. It is helping my chronic pain. I figured I have tried it all and wanted to give this a chance. I bet if I had this on my bed, I could sleep pain free and that would be great.

 

[Bennie_P]

PLEASE have your friend look into the book I recommended…Full Catastrophe Living.

I know this recommendation (and some of the others posted) comes from the heart but this book *Full Catastrophe Living *by Jon Kabat-Zinn proposes the use of new age meditation technics and the danger of Catholics using religious practices such as Zen Buddism, I feel, could be very dangerous to a Catholic’s spiritual health. (Mark 8:36 For what doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? )

Here is the introduction of an interview with Jon Kabat-Zinn for you to make your own judgement. The link is to the full interview.

Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn

Jon Kabat-Zinn was one of the earliest students of Zen Master Seung Sahn and was a founding member of Cambridge Zen Center. Over the years he has studied with a number of Buddhist teachers and incorporated their teachings, especially the practice of mindfulness, into his practice of medicine.kwanumzen.com/primarypoint/v08n2-1991-summer-jonkabatzinn-mindfulmedicine.html

I know, sort of, the type of situation that you are in. I have watched my brother suffer with cronic back pain for the last decade and it had almost crushed him, and for a long time he used marijuana to combat the pain. But he now goes to a pain clinic and gets treatment with the steroid treatment mention in another post. He now relys on his faith in Christ, redemptive suffering?, but it hasn’t been easy. He had to fight to get help from the state to help him pay for it, but if you asked him, he would tell you it was well worth the fight and the suffering that he has endured for it brought closer to God. He finds joy in his faith and I say it is a real blessing to talk to him about my small problems.

Hope you find the release you need.

The one and the only -Jesus Christ- that heals.

We are confident that as you share in suffering, you will also share God’s comfort. 2 Corinthians 1:7

He is the source of every mercy and the God who comforts us. 2 Corinthians 1:3

Many think that when God comforts us, our hardships will go away. But we must understand that comfort means receiving strength to deal with our hardships.

:twocents:

 

[Bennie_P]

May I suggest any that might wonder about the Church and its opinions on New Age influences and spirituality and it’s dangers read the Vatican document JESUS CHRIST THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE: A Christian reflection on the “New Age”
this a link to it: vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

 

[kentuckyliz]

Not a comment about the OP–whose situation moves my heart. I am so sorry you are going through this.

Just as a general comment, if marijuana were so medicinally valuable, don’t you think some pharmaceutical company would have figured out by now what the effective compounds are and extract those for safer administration than SMOKING?!

It seems really stupid to force people to ingest carcinogens with their medicine. Perhaps legal medicinal marijuana should be in pill form.

I have no idea if this is doable or not, but I’m a cancer patient (third cancer) and don’t wish this stupid disease on my worst enemy…so I have a thing about carcinogens.

 

[KCtheMommy]

Not a comment about the OP–whose situation moves my heart. I am so sorry you are going through this.

Just as a general comment, if marijuana were so medicinally valuable, don’t you think some pharmaceutical company would have figured out by now what the effective compounds are and extract those for safer administration than SMOKING?!

It seems really stupid to force people to ingest carcinogens with their medicine. Perhaps legal medicinal marijuana should be in pill form.

I have no idea if this is doable or not, but I’m a cancer patient (third cancer) and don’t wish this stupid disease on my worst enemy…so I have a thing about carcinogens.

Marijuana does not contain carcinogens like cigarettes. It doesn’t have the additives and yuckies that tobacco does. However, it’s effectiveness falls as the ways of ingesting it go from smoking it, to ingesting it. So I think that is why they keep on using it in “smokable” form. I guess the THC (or the actual pain relief/drug in marijuana) is best absorbed via the lungs.

Over 20 years ago I had a school friend a few years older than me who actually received marjuana cigarettes in a box, with a filter, from the pharmacy! He had some early-onset glaucaoma and he was given the medicinal marijuana to prevent blindness-- he was about 16 at the time. Then some legislation came in stopping that. I sure wish they still did it now, for those like the OP who suffer ligetimate pain.

To the OP, I don’t know the Catholic views on this. I do know some medical views on it. My sister, an RN BSN recently went to a symposium on medical marijuana (she works on her local oncology ward) and was very adamant that it’s so much better than the hard-core drugs like Morphine and especially Methadone. It’s not addictive, it leaves your system easily and with little to no withdrawal, and is by far a superior pain relief agent. She told me as I have had years of the same problems. I haven’t used it due to my pregnancy. I do know it’s nice to be off the long-acting, addictive pills though! I have considered using it in the future, especially after my next round of back and neck surgeries.

I am so against going back on the “big meds.”

Ask your priest. He’ll let you know how he feels about it.