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germys9
Guest
Reading another post a question arose in my mind. What do we mean when we say there are 23 churches and 7 rites? It seems like there could be different rites but only one church.
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C
CatholicNerd
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I’m sure that one of our Eastern brothers will correct this but I’ll give an explanation a shot. When I was studying the Faith before my reception into full communion with the Church, this seemingly impossible thing took me by surprise also. At least for a few minutes. Then I discovered a video on Byzcath.org that explained it really well. byzcath.org/Faith-and-Worship/Videos.htm (the first video). A church is a body of believers who come together according to their customs, style of worship, theology, and profession of faith, and are submissive to the authority of the Bishop of Rome. Since there are so many different expressions of the Catholic faith, it is impossible for all of them to be regulated by one ordinary. So we have many churches and are yet one Church in Christ because we all hold and teach the Catholic faith.
Some tradlats and self-proclaimed “ultra-conservatives” whine at that explanation and will claim that the Latin church is superior and that the other churches are merely different Rites of the Latin church. This, as the catechism teaches us, is not true! The Latin church is just that, a church, just as equal as the other churches of the Catholic Church. Not more Catholic and not less. The other churches in turn are not more or less Catholic than the Latin church. Hope this helps!
Some tradlats and self-proclaimed “ultra-conservatives” whine at that explanation and will claim that the Latin church is superior and that the other churches are merely different Rites of the Latin church. This, as the catechism teaches us, is not true! The Latin church is just that, a church, just as equal as the other churches of the Catholic Church. Not more Catholic and not less. The other churches in turn are not more or less Catholic than the Latin church. Hope this helps!
P
picasso_13
Guest
Here’s a list I found on the web: ewtn.com/expert/answers/rites.htm
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a_pilgrim
Guest
Hi, germys9!
You are right. As Catholics, we are all, in fact, part of the *One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. *So, how’d we end up with 23 separate “Churches?” Perhaps this concept becomes a bit clearer when we turn to Scripture.
When the Apostles first set out to spread the Word throughout the world, they naturally went in different directions. As they went, they would establish “Churches,” at central points, each Church with its own leader, but all sharing the same basis in faith. You can, in fact, find many Scriptural references to the “Church at Antioch” or the “Church at Alexandria” or wherever. These Churches and their leaders provided the cohesiveness for worship within their given geographic area. They would “interpret” the specifics of worship within their area in terms of the language and customs of that area, thus creating the various “rites” our Catholic Church enjoys today.
These Churches, as established by the Apostles, enjoyed a bit of autonomy since, because of the technology of the times, they were pretty much isolated from their counterparts - as long as the basic beliefs of the faith were adhered to, latitude was allowed with regard to ceremonials, etc. (i.e., “rites”).
The leader, or bishop, of each of these Churches was looked upon as the supreme authority within his geographic area of jurisdiction, with each bishop being equal to the others throughout the world, but with a special place of honor reserved for the Apostle Peter, the Bishop of the Church of Rome, as “first among equals” due to his having been selected by the Hand of Our Lord to lead His Church on earth.
The original “Churches” of the time of the Apostles has grown to the 23 that today make up our Catholic Church. Each of those 23 still has its own leadership or governing system, with the Pope, who is also the Bishop of Rome, still responsible for the activities of that Church, and still “first among equals” as the Pastor of all Catholics.
a pilgrim
You are right. As Catholics, we are all, in fact, part of the *One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. *So, how’d we end up with 23 separate “Churches?” Perhaps this concept becomes a bit clearer when we turn to Scripture.
When the Apostles first set out to spread the Word throughout the world, they naturally went in different directions. As they went, they would establish “Churches,” at central points, each Church with its own leader, but all sharing the same basis in faith. You can, in fact, find many Scriptural references to the “Church at Antioch” or the “Church at Alexandria” or wherever. These Churches and their leaders provided the cohesiveness for worship within their given geographic area. They would “interpret” the specifics of worship within their area in terms of the language and customs of that area, thus creating the various “rites” our Catholic Church enjoys today.
These Churches, as established by the Apostles, enjoyed a bit of autonomy since, because of the technology of the times, they were pretty much isolated from their counterparts - as long as the basic beliefs of the faith were adhered to, latitude was allowed with regard to ceremonials, etc. (i.e., “rites”).
The leader, or bishop, of each of these Churches was looked upon as the supreme authority within his geographic area of jurisdiction, with each bishop being equal to the others throughout the world, but with a special place of honor reserved for the Apostle Peter, the Bishop of the Church of Rome, as “first among equals” due to his having been selected by the Hand of Our Lord to lead His Church on earth.
The original “Churches” of the time of the Apostles has grown to the 23 that today make up our Catholic Church. Each of those 23 still has its own leadership or governing system, with the Pope, who is also the Bishop of Rome, still responsible for the activities of that Church, and still “first among equals” as the Pastor of all Catholics.
a pilgrim
B
Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
The best sources to study this are The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Vat. II), Orientale Lumen (Light of the East JPII) and Eastern Catholic sin The United States of America. (USCC)
H
Hesychios
Guest
A Pilgrim, as usual, gave an excellent explanation of the hows and whys of churches.
The structure of the early church was of autonomous communities planted by the Apostles. Through this Apostolic connection all of the communities recognized each other and communed each other.
There wasn’t any ability to control each other at the time, and they mainly thought they were in the End of Days so those ideas just didn’t carry any importance.
But there were also individuals who had no connection with the Apostles, who may have heard Jesus speak or had second hand knowledge of the Way. In other words they were not properly catechised and had less than thorough knowledge of the faith.
It would make sense to seek out the Apostles when they passed through an area, but the next best thing would be to get in touch with a certifiable leader in the local community, their credentials would be the connection with Apostles or “overseers” left by the Apostles to guide the church in an area (such as Tiimothy). This connection could be reinforced by visits and letters read aloud, and an inquirer would know they were making a connection with Jesus of Nazereth through these men.
Anyone who was not thoroughly converted, a fraud or magician might claim to have the knowledge of the faith and teachings, and build up a following for their own purposes. These people and their followers would not be allowed communion with the other communities and church leaders, their credentials were not acceptable.
That is how the Communion of Churches seem to have originated. They stayed connected through visits and letters. Anyone who could not verify their baptism and their bishop would be regarded as not a part of the Way. These ones could not partake of the Eucharist in their travels.
As time went on the Apostles fell asleep and an expanding network of “overseers” or bishops spread across the known world. It was impossible for every bishop to know every other personally, but it was easy enough to verify with the local Patriarch, the bishop of the most senior community.
Ultimately, by the third century there were bishops from southern India to Ireland and parts of Africa. KNOWING WHOM A BISHOP WAS IN COMMUNION WITH BECAME ESSENTIAL and the premier bishop to be in communion with was the Bishop of Rome, successor to Peter himself. In their travels a bishop or a priest could carry letters confirming their communion with certain Patriarchs and ultimately, to Rome.
This is my interpretation of the development of the church, in condensed form!
Michael
The structure of the early church was of autonomous communities planted by the Apostles. Through this Apostolic connection all of the communities recognized each other and communed each other.
There wasn’t any ability to control each other at the time, and they mainly thought they were in the End of Days so those ideas just didn’t carry any importance.
But there were also individuals who had no connection with the Apostles, who may have heard Jesus speak or had second hand knowledge of the Way. In other words they were not properly catechised and had less than thorough knowledge of the faith.
It would make sense to seek out the Apostles when they passed through an area, but the next best thing would be to get in touch with a certifiable leader in the local community, their credentials would be the connection with Apostles or “overseers” left by the Apostles to guide the church in an area (such as Tiimothy). This connection could be reinforced by visits and letters read aloud, and an inquirer would know they were making a connection with Jesus of Nazereth through these men.
Anyone who was not thoroughly converted, a fraud or magician might claim to have the knowledge of the faith and teachings, and build up a following for their own purposes. These people and their followers would not be allowed communion with the other communities and church leaders, their credentials were not acceptable.
That is how the Communion of Churches seem to have originated. They stayed connected through visits and letters. Anyone who could not verify their baptism and their bishop would be regarded as not a part of the Way. These ones could not partake of the Eucharist in their travels.
As time went on the Apostles fell asleep and an expanding network of “overseers” or bishops spread across the known world. It was impossible for every bishop to know every other personally, but it was easy enough to verify with the local Patriarch, the bishop of the most senior community.
Ultimately, by the third century there were bishops from southern India to Ireland and parts of Africa. KNOWING WHOM A BISHOP WAS IN COMMUNION WITH BECAME ESSENTIAL and the premier bishop to be in communion with was the Bishop of Rome, successor to Peter himself. In their travels a bishop or a priest could carry letters confirming their communion with certain Patriarchs and ultimately, to Rome.
This is my interpretation of the development of the church, in condensed form!
Michael
D
diaconate
Guest
A rite is set way of praising God. Each rite has their own liturgys, prayers, and devotions. Church is a group that is under one patriach or major archbishop and usaually it is nationalistic. An example would be the Ruthenian Catholics and the Ukrainian Catholics. Both are Byzantine but are under seperate heirarchs, and have seperate parishes,seminarys and such but follow the Byzantine rite(way of praising). We both use Old Church Slavonic, the same Divine Liturgy but are goverend by different prefects. To get the complete list of all the rites and churchs that belong to that rite look at Pilgrims threads or responses. He did an excellant job on this and I could not do better. I hope this helps.
Glory be to Jesus Christ! Glory be Forever!
Glory be to Jesus Christ! Glory be Forever!
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