Church attire (all kinds)

[Walking_Home]

Saints are not correct in all they say and do. But as I said, a Priest refusing the sacraments to people for no good reason would surely be a very grave matter indeed.

So we have two options:

St. Padre Pio’s rules for confessional attire were improper. He was refusing the sacraments for no good reason- and possibly eliminating a last chance at confession before someone died. Abuse of the sacraments in this manner would very likely be a mortal sin, and St. Padre Pio repented of it before his death.

OR

St. Padre Pio’s rules for confessional attire were proper.

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I tell you what—write to the Vatican–ask if a skirt/dress not being 8 inches below the knee is a valid reason to deny a woman the sacrament of confession.

 

[crazzeto]

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I tell you what—write to the Vatican–ask if a skirt/dress not being 8 inches below the knee is a valid reason to deny a woman the sacrament of confession.

You will be told that in the Dicoses of Rome it is a valid reason to be denied admittance to church at all.

 

[Walking_Home]

You will be told that in the Dicoses of Rome it is a valid reason to be denied admittance to church at all.

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Really–the skirts/dresses need to be at least 8 inches below the knee. Where can I find this dress code.

 

[crazzeto]

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Really–the skirts/dresses need to be at least 8 inches below the knee. Where can I find this dress code.

Pope Benedict XVI instituted it in his Dioces, as the head of the Dicoses of Rome it his right to do this.

Bishop Robert Vasa on the dress code

adoremus.org/11-00-vasa.html

one expert

Several years ago, the Holy Father reinstituted a dress code for the churches of Rome, his diocese. No one in shorts or sleeveless shirts was to be admitted into the church building.

An American sense of rights and freedom rebels against such rules, calling them absurdities. Yet it was done and it was enforced. Tourists who had traveled across an ocean to see a church were turned back at the door unless they were properly attired. This was only to visit a church while no other liturgical action was going on. The Holy Father saw a need to institute a policy aimed at restoring, in a very concrete way, a proper sense of reverence for the house of God.

This was written because it has caused a scandle with tourists

cjonline.com/stories/071703/pag_vatican.shtml

You can see how the Holy Father takes this seriously. Should we not immitate our Patriarch, the sucecssor to the See of Peter?

 

[severus68]

First I want to say I do not appreciate being called “disrespectful and insulting”, you are making it personal, and personal attacks diminish a persons point of view.
However, I will not respond in kind. I will stick to the idea of appropriate dress.

I did not put down anyone or their taste. I do not judge the way they dress. If you look at my reply to your question “Does the sight of a woman’s arm distract you.” I said that this type of dress may have a place in a party dress, but Mass is not the place.

I said “susceptible to impure thoughts”. I did not say men had no control.

If you intend to insult someone using their comments, try to get it right.

I am not going to get in an argument about this. I just made my point, a point that I can say confidently that most people that take Catholicism seriously (as well as other Christians, Jews and Muslims) would agree with.

I have an idea, why don’t you take two photos to Church, one of a woman dressed like she works at Hooters and one of a woman in modest tasteful clothing. As people are leaving Mass as them if both photos represent dress that is appropriate dress for Mass. You must poll people of all ages and genders equally. If you get the majority of people saying the short, tight and revealing clothes are appropriate, I will make an apology on this thread.

Ask a priest, ask a Deacon, ask a Nun or use this site to ask an apologist if they consider this type of dress appropriate. I believe you honestly know what the answer will be. Check the dress code for St. Peters at the Vatican. Their views are a lot stricter than my views are.

Well, I did think you were wrong in making disparing remarks about women and you were insulting about the nature of men. My remarks were not personal about you, I do not know you but they were with regard to your comments which I found offensive as a Christian and a human being.

That was not me but Walking Home’s question to you, I believe.

I did read your response to Walking about Church not being the appropriate place for some mode of dress, where you seemed more reasonable about your comments.

There you go again about “Hooters” etc. I do not live in the US, do not know what it is, do not care to take photos of women and do not propose to take a poll. You are entitled to your view about issues but I do not think its acceptable to make offensive remarks about women.

I am not a saint but I certainly do not spend my time at mass looking at how others dress and have never found anyone wearing anything offensive that distracted me.

I know about the dress code at St Peter’s and at churches in Italy. That does not prove any point. What has been happening in Italy with its government, prime minister etc should be of greater concern than dress.

 

[severus68]

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Saints are not always correct in all they say and do. From what I have read–that quote attributed to our Lady of Fatima–is not found anywhere in the Vatican site. It is usually found as a disembodied quote via “Trad” sources.

Absolutely. That so called quote from Our Lady at Fatima and others like that are certainly not what the Vatican has said was revealed at Fatima.

 

[Walking_Home]

Pope Benedict XVI instituted it in his Dioces, as the head of the Dicoses of Rome it his right to do this.

Bishop Robert Vasa on the dress code

adoremus.org/11-00-vasa.html

one expert

This was written because it has caused a scandle with tourists

cjonline.com/stories/071703/pag_vatican.shtml

You can see how the Holy Father takes this seriously. Should we not immitate our Patriarch, the sucecssor to the See of Peter?

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I am familiar with the sign placed at the entrance to St. Peters. What I am asking–is where is the dress code that states --women’s skirts/dresses need to be at least 8 inches below the knee.

 

[crazzeto]

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I am familiar with the sign placed at the entrance to St. Peters. What I am asking–is where is the dress code that states --women’s skirts/dresses need to be at least 8 inches below the knee.

Here is a image obtained from stpetersbasillica.org

saintpetersbasilica.org/Pics/SQR/DressCode-JG.jpg

Clearly short skirts are not happily accepted. Argue all you want, but the Mass is something special. Are you required, in your own parish, to dress this way? Well I guess that depends on your Bishop / Pastor, typically the answer is no.

However I believe the main point of the thread is that you should desire to shoot for a higher standard. You should want to wear that long skirt if you happen to be a woman. If you happen to be a man it should be desirous to break out your nice dressy clothing for Mass. No, not business casual, but a nice button down, and if you are able even a tie and jacket shouldn’t be considered “too much”. We should do our best to present our selves the best we can.

Was it not Christ who emphised the importance of being prepared, and perhaps even presentable in the parable of the royal wedding?

 

[eegardner]

Well, I did think you were wrong in making disparing remarks about women and you were insulting about the nature of men. My remarks were not personal about you, I do not know you but they were with regard to your comments which I found offensive as a Christian and a human being.

That was not me but Walking Home’s question to you, I believe.

I did read your response to Walking about Church not being the appropriate place for some mode of dress, where you seemed more reasonable about your comments.

There you go again about “Hooters” etc. I do not live in the US, do not know what it is, do not care to take photos of women and do not propose to take a poll. You are entitled to your view about issues but I do not think its acceptable to make offensive remarks about women.

I am not a saint but I certainly do not spend my time at mass looking at how others dress and have never found anyone wearing anything offensive that distracted me.

I know about the dress code at St Peter’s and at churches in Italy. That does not prove any point. What has been happening in Italy with its government, prime minister etc should be of greater concern than dress.

OK, you do not live in the U.S., so you can not know what I am talking about. You can not tell me I am wrong if you do not know the situation or the facts. I do not know how people dress where you attend Mass, hopefully more respectful than some I have seen here.

What I am saying is, there are some women that wear shorts that just barely cover their bottom. Some wear shirts too low cut and show a lot of their breasts and do not cover their stomach.

Hooters is a restaurant that has waitresses that wear very tight very short shorts and short low cut shirts. Their clothes do not cover much more than a bra and panties would cover.

Again I state, I am not insulting women. I am saying that Mass is not a place to expose your body. I am not insulting men. I am saying that if a man sees a woman that is nearly naked, he is prone to impure thoughts. No man can say he has never had an impure thought. The less temptation he has the better it is.

Yes, the dress code at St Peter’s did prove my point. My point was they had a stricter view about how someone should dress than I did.

 

[TrueLight]

Here is a image obtained from stpetersbasillica.org

saintpetersbasilica.org/Pics/SQR/DressCode-JG.jpg

Clearly short skirts are not happily accepted. Argue all you want, but the Mass is something special. Are you required, in your own parish, to dress this way? Well I guess that depends on your Bishop / Pastor, typically the answer is no.

However I believe the main point of the thread is that you should desire to shoot for a higher standard. You should want to wear that long skirt if you happen to be a woman. If you happen to be a man it should be desirous to break out your nice dressy clothing for Mass. No, not business casual, but a nice button down, and if you are able even a tie and jacket shouldn’t be considered “too much”. We should do our best to present our selves the best we can.

Was it not Christ who emphised the importance of being prepared, and perhaps even presentable in the parable of the royal wedding?

Thank you for posting all those links. If that doesn’t make people think. What will?

 

[Walking_Home]

Here is a image obtained from stpetersbasillica.org

saintpetersbasilica.org/Pics/SQR/DressCode-JG.jpg

Clearly short skirts are not happily accepted. Argue all you want, but the Mass is something special. Are you required, in your own parish, to dress this way? Well I guess that depends on your Bishop / Pastor, typically the answer is no.

However I believe the main point of the thread is that you should desire to shoot for a higher standard. You should want to wear that long skirt if you happen to be a woman. If you happen to be a man it should be desirous to break out your nice dressy clothing for Mass. No, not business casual, but a nice button down, and if you are able even a tie and jacket shouldn’t be considered “too much”. We should do our best to present our selves the best we can.

Was it not Christ who emphised the importance of being prepared, and perhaps even presentable in the parable of the royal wedding?

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Like I said–I am familiar with the sign–and I know mini–skirts are not allowed. But from looking at the sign–the allowable length is shorter than the 8 inches from the knee. It looks to be more like knee length is allowable.

 

[crazzeto]

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Like I said–I am familiar with the sign–and I know mini–skirts are not allowed. But from looking at the sign–the allowable length is shorter than the 8 inches from the knee. It looks to be more like knee length is allowable.

You are so fixated on this one particular point… Walking Home, can I ask you something… What exactly do you find so offensive with regard to modisty? Why is it so scandlous to dress well for our Lord?

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Here is a image obtained from stpetersbasillica.org

saintpetersbasilica.org/Pics/SQR/DressCode-JG.jpg

Strawman argument. No one is justifying or has justified wearing a miniskirt to Mass. We are contending why some individuals on here are fixated and obsessed with what others are wearing even though it is still appropriate (T-Shirt, Shirt, Sandals, 3/4 length shorts, and so on). The fact that you have to resort to a strawman argument indicates to us that you know your beliefs are in error; you resort to using a miniskirt as an example as a way of arguing out of mere desperation.

Clearly short skirts are not happily accepted. Argue all you want, but the Mass is something special. Are you required, in your own parish, to dress this way? Well I guess that depends on your Bishop / Pastor, typically the answer is no.

We aren’t disputing that Mass is special. If anything, it’s the people on here who want to turn mass into a Red Carpet event - an arena hosting a fashion war between parishioners. They’re the one’s who want to remove the focus away from God and upon themselves.

A few others and I are more interested in how we are pleasing God in our hearts than pleasing the eyes of judgmental people.

However I believe the main point of the thread is that you should desire to shoot for a higher standard. You should want to wear that long skirt if you happen to be a woman. If you happen to be a man it should be desirous to break out your nice dressy clothing for Mass. No, not business casual, but a nice button down, and if you are able even a tie and jacket shouldn’t be considered “too much”. We should do our best to present our selves the best we can.

Will wearing a suit get you into Heaven? Does it even please God in any way (1 Samuel 16:7, John 7:24, John 8:15)? No. So what is it with people on this forum instructing us what to wear?

If this is what Catholicism has morphed into, despite Jesus’ promise to Peter, I don’t think I see a very bright future for the faith.

 

[TrueLight]

Strawman argument. No one is justifying or has justified wearing a miniskirt to Mass. We are contending why some individuals on here are fixated and obsessed with what others are wearing even though it is still appropriate (T-Shirt, Shirt, Sandals, 3/4 length shorts, and so on). The fact that you have to resort to a strawman argument indicates to us that you know your beliefs are in error; you resort to using a miniskirt as an example as a way of arguing out of mere desperation.

I’m sure you’ve seen enough modesty threads to know that folks aren’t just talking about 3/4 shorts and tee shirts. I’ve seen lots of people say shorts, tanks and minis are just fine and I haven’t been on here that long.

The point is if the Vatican turns VISITORS, not regular parishioners, away for not dressing appropriately, might there be something to this modesty thing?

 

[crazzeto]

Strawman argument. No one is justifying or has justified wearing a miniskirt to Mass. We are contending why some individuals on here are fixated and obsessed with what others are wearing even though it is still appropriate (T-Shirt, Shirt, Sandals, 3/4 length shorts, and so on). The fact that you have to resort to a strawman argument indicates to us that you know your beliefs are in error; you resort to using a miniskirt as an example as a way of arguing out of mere desperation.

Pardon, there is no strawman here… I am pointing out what the Holy Father is enforcing very ridgedly.

We aren’t disputing that Mass is special. If anything, it’s the people on here who want to turn mass into a Red Carpet event - an arena hosting a fashion war between parishioners. A few others and I are more interested in how we are pleasing God in our hearts than pleasing the eyes of judgmental people.

Great, so if the mass is special then what do you have against modest dress? Do you believe that form fitting, tight clothing isn’t a problem? Even if it is not in miniskirt format?

What do you think about sheer materials is appropriate for the Mass, yet many dresses we call “elegant” and “sophisticate” today utilize this material. Modesty is an important component for men and women when dressing for Mass.

Will wearing a suit get you into Heaven? Does it even please God in any way (1 Samuel 16:7, John 7:24, John 8:15)? No. So what is it with people on this forum instructing us what to wear?

If this is what Catholicism has morphed into, despite Jesus’ promise to Peter, I don’t think I see a very bright future for the faith.

Does it occur to you that what you look like reflects what is on the inside? What if I were to show up to Mass straight off the beach in a tank and swim shorts? Or even short sleeves and shorts?

We should prepare our selves for our encouter with the Lord… If I do as I state above, then am I not turning Mass attendance into a dead work?

 

[Walking_Home]

You are so fixated on this one particular point… Walking Home, can I ask you something… What exactly do you find so offensive with regard to modisty? Why is it so scandlous to dress well for our Lord?

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It is not about being fixated --its when someone shows up with Padre Pio etc. making it look like if a woman wears anything shorter than 8 inches below the knee is “immodest”–there is problem with that. Extremism is not good.

 

[crazzeto]

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It is not about being fixated --its when someone shows up with Padre Pio etc. making it look like if a woman wears anything shorter than 8 inches below the knee is “immodest”–there is problem with that. Extremism is not good.

Like I said earlier, I would consider what St. Pio said with some weight… He wasn’t exactly a nobody in Gods eyes. You are correct though, perhaps St. Pio was wrong… But let me ask, in what way? You call this extremism?

What do you call my suggestion that men should consider going so far as wearing a nice sport jacket and tie to Mass? Is that more extremism? Would you argue this point as passionately?

I’m also curious how it is extremism to make these points? What is it do you think advocates of modisty are suggesting? Certainly we’re not trying to undo anyone’s rights, or anything of that nature. Rather, it is an observation that a meeting with Christ in the Blessed Sacrament is frankly, a more important meeting than you could have with any living person including the President of the United States.

Think about your arguments, would you make the same arguements if someone said “I’m going into a one on one meeting with President Obama, what should I wear?”. Why would you advocate a less strict dress code for the Mass?

 

[severus68]

OK, you do not live in the U.S., so you can not know what I am talking about. You can not tell me I am wrong if you do not know the situation or the facts. I do not know how people dress where you attend Mass, hopefully more respectful than some I have seen here.

What I am saying is, there are some women that wear shorts that just barely cover their bottom. Some wear shirts too low cut and show a lot of their breasts and do not cover their stomach.

Hooters is a restaurant that has waitresses that wear very tight very short shorts and short low cut shirts. Their clothes do not cover much more than a bra and panties would cover.

Again I state, I am not insulting women. I am saying that Mass is not a place to expose your body. I am not insulting men. I am saying that if a man sees a woman that is nearly naked, he is prone to impure thoughts. No man can say he has never had an impure thought. The less temptation he has the better it is.

Yes, the dress code at St Peter’s did prove my point. My point was they had a stricter view about how someone should dress than I did.

Well, unless you state that you are only referring to how people dress at your church in the US, I would have to assume you are making general comments. I do know Catholics in the US and they have not the same to say as you about women being half and nearly naked at mass.

Men and women should try to resist temptation and not see temptation in everything.

 

[crazzeto]

Well, unless you state that you are only referring to how people dress at your church in the US, I would have to assume you are making general comments. I do know Catholics in the US and they have not the same to say as you about women being half and nearly naked at mass.

Men and women should try to resist temptation and not see temptation in everything.

Men and women should also do their best not to be the cause of temptation…

 

[severus68]

Men and women should also do their best not to be the cause of temptation…

I do not really believe any men and women dress in any manner at mass so as to tempt anyone.