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Wampa
Guest
Nope. In fact, I’m quite sure I said the exact opposite: “Just less reverent, or at least, that’s the message [shorts-wearers] send to the rest of the congregation (none of us know what is in your heart)”.
Aside from the fact that I clearly said that I don’t know, please note the importance of “that’s the message you send” - it means that, I can’t even go so far as to assume someone is less reverent, only that I’m getting a message about the possibility - a message which may or may not actually mean that. In fact, there is a regular parishioner at the Cathedral near me who dresses casually and is one of the most reverent Catholics I have ever met at Mass (or so it would seem from the the sum total of all of his extremely reverent actions and attitudes). I feel quite comfortable assuming there is no lack of reverence in his heart when he comes to Church dressed that way (though again, who knows, I could be wrong on that - I don’t actually know his heart).
Sigh. This is not at all what I suggested. To put it in logic terms, you seem to think I said “All A are B” and the fact that your husband is A, but not B, invalidates my observation. Rest assured I did not (and would not ever) claim that. But it would be a waste of everyone’s time to try and explain it further.
Since both sides on this topic are “preaching to the choir” and the likelihood of anyone’s mind being changed is close to zero, I am moving on to other topics. Peace be with you all, fellow Catholics (regardless of attire
).
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
Well…I’m glad the young lady was at least at Mass…who knows…from that little seed…maybe a tree will grow.This morning at the 11AM youth mass a very young couple came in and sat next to me. The young lady had on a pair of skin-tight denim short shorts. I was totally in shock but prayed for her. I am deeply disappointed and saddened that decorum has fallen by the wayside. Our church is air-conditioned, and I’m certain that she must have had more appropraite clothing to wear to Mass. What are some people thinking about when they dress for Mass ?
I understand that this was a Sunday…but sometimes people are not dress for Mass alone per se…I attend daily Mass…that means I go in what I am wearing to work…even if it’s casual Friday…and I rode my bike to work. I go because the value of a single Mass is worth more then all the treasure on this earth…and I don’t think God minds if I’m in somewhat crumpled jeans…
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ElisabethM
Guest
Doesn’t the Vatican have a “dress code”? Why do we think someone who would be turned away from the Vatican for wearing skin tight short-shorts should be allowed to come before the Blessed Sacrament in our churches dressed like this? Isn’t the same Jesus present in the Blessed Sacrament at the Vatican the same Jesus in our tabernacles?
At least half of the people at the Mass I attended yesterday could not have made it into the Vatican dressed as they were. No, I didn’t take a poll and waste the Mass by checking off all the inappropriately dressed people. But the impression was there, and I felt particularly bad for my young teenage sons as we sat behind a young teenage girl in skin tight jeans. It is hard for my boys not to be distracted by this kind of dress, which is why we usually sit in the front pew.
Schools have dress codes now as well. If a student is inappropriately dressed, the parents will be called and the student sent home to change clothes. Weddings have dress codes too, not written usually, but clearly understood. Even the Gospels speak of proper wedding attire and that the guests would be turned away if not properly clothed.
When we allow the standards of proper dress to be “come as you are” we are not showing the respect due to our Holy God. If a person truly has only one thing to wear, which is not even a reasonable assumption, then that is their “best”. But for someone to dress for the Holy Mass in the same clothes they would wear at the beach, ought to be unacceptable. They can and should do better.
We need a reeducation of our parishes so that the people know improper dress is disrespectful and will not be tolerated. Why not have all our parishes post the Vatican dress code and say, “if the Vatican does this, so shall we”?
We have lost all sense of modesty in this culture, along with the humility that says life isn’t all about what I want and if others don’t like it, they can just go jump in a lake (hmm, how about right after Mass? we don’t even have to go home and change!)
em
At least half of the people at the Mass I attended yesterday could not have made it into the Vatican dressed as they were. No, I didn’t take a poll and waste the Mass by checking off all the inappropriately dressed people. But the impression was there, and I felt particularly bad for my young teenage sons as we sat behind a young teenage girl in skin tight jeans. It is hard for my boys not to be distracted by this kind of dress, which is why we usually sit in the front pew.
Schools have dress codes now as well. If a student is inappropriately dressed, the parents will be called and the student sent home to change clothes. Weddings have dress codes too, not written usually, but clearly understood. Even the Gospels speak of proper wedding attire and that the guests would be turned away if not properly clothed.
When we allow the standards of proper dress to be “come as you are” we are not showing the respect due to our Holy God. If a person truly has only one thing to wear, which is not even a reasonable assumption, then that is their “best”. But for someone to dress for the Holy Mass in the same clothes they would wear at the beach, ought to be unacceptable. They can and should do better.
We need a reeducation of our parishes so that the people know improper dress is disrespectful and will not be tolerated. Why not have all our parishes post the Vatican dress code and say, “if the Vatican does this, so shall we”?
We have lost all sense of modesty in this culture, along with the humility that says life isn’t all about what I want and if others don’t like it, they can just go jump in a lake (hmm, how about right after Mass? we don’t even have to go home and change!)
em
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Derek_Ellery
Guest
I have not seen any poster here “putting down” anybody for dressing immodestly, you’re mistaking correction for judgment, and actually being quite judgmental yourself in assuming one who expects his/her fellow parishioners to dress in accordance with the Church’s teaching while at Mass is lacking a Christ-like attitude. Shame on you.
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the 1st and 3rd spiritual works of mercy before you go about making flippant accusations regarding one’s attitude.
Our Lady of Fatima:
Benedict XV - SACRA PROPEDIEM section 19:
G. Cardinal Laurenti, Prefect Sacred Congregation for Religious
Vincent La Puma, Secretary
Rome, August 23, 1928
**
January 12, 1930, the Sacred Congregation of the Council:**
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Walking_Home
Guest
When the words “less reverant” start to be thrown around at someone whose attire is on the casual side–yea–that is a put down/ thinking less of them. And here I am not talking about/condoning showing up at Mass in see through/low cut tops and/or short shorts and/or muscle shirts.
As to the quote attributed to our Lady of Fatima—from what has said in other threads—that quote was not from our Lady.
Now --the rest of those quotes–we are no longer living in those times.
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Derek_Ellery
Guest
Give me a break. If I say, for example, that you’re lacking in reverence, I am addressing a certain behavior you happen to espouse, it is not a condemnation against you as an individual. Again, I suggest you stop passing judgment on, and assuming you know the feelings people hold in their hearts, and instead familiarize yourself with the 1st and 3rd spiritual works of mercy, because what you’re suggesting is harsh judgment, is actually an act of charity.
The Church does not change with the times, what was offensive to God 80 years ago is offensive to Him now, but I digress, offend Our Lord for your own comfort and convenience, in the end it is Him who you will have to answer to.
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PatriceA
Guest
It would be so great that on that day we all have to answer to God for all we’ve done, He’s dressed in shorts and sporting flip flops on his feet.
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Derek_Ellery
Guest
Please explain why that would be so great. I would also like to know what relevance it would have to the attire His subjects on Earth wear while engaged in the act of adoration.
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PatriceA
Guest
Its a joke. Laugh a little, its good for you. God did create the sense of humor after all.
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Walking_Home
Guest
If someone says --you lack reverence–yes–you are saying something against the individual. And here is a note— what may look like “an act of charity”–may actually be pride masquerading as a virtue.
I was going to bring up the CCC and our late Pope—but after reading your introduction below–one can see where that would go.
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crazzeto
Guest
I honestly had no idea what “sheer material” was until you posted that. Yeah, I can see the issue with wearing this kind of clothing. I can’t imagine someone apporching the blessed sacrament wearing this.
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CMatt25
Guest
If He, our King, is in sandals or flip flops, etc then I would just have a difficult time believing He would have minded had we visited Him in His house here on earth also in casual attire.
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Denise1957
Guest
Fr. Trigilio does a good job of explaining the necessity of dressing reverently for Mass. I like the parable of the wedding garment that he uses to help explain why it’s important.
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Wampa
Guest
Since you’re clearly addressing me, I guess I’d like to clarify what I actually said (for the second time).
Me: “Not less Catholic. Just less reverent, or at least, that’s the message you send to the rest of the congregation (none of us know what is in your heart)..”
I spent a long time constructing that sentence to make sure it did not come across as judging his heart. Derek, thank you for understanding the distinction that others don’t seem to get.
Actually, I thought CMatt25 and I had a very nice, civilized, charitable conversation on the topic. I found it enlightening. In fact, his response to me:
“Maybe less reverant to those in the congregation who have, as someone else here described as, a ‘traditionalist mindset’”
was an excellent point, and one that I thought about for a long time. Note how he didn’t respond to me with “stop judging me/putting me down/thinking less of me!” (presumably because he understood that I was doing no such thing).
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Derek_Ellery
Guest
Pride is not admitting when you’re wrong, and humbling yourself to Christ through the commands of His Church. The Church has always taught that casual clothing is unacceptable for Mass, however, out of pride you continue to follow and preach your will instead of His.
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
He doesn’t. You need to focus on the state of your heart. Stop listening to people who will judge you by your appearance. Indeed, for Scripture maintains that the LORD told Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7).
The Catholic faith is a beautiful faith, but you need to make a distinction between the law of man and the law of God. And the law of God does not instruct any piece of clothing to eternal salvation. That’s just dogmatic and even an insult to the efforts of those great men and women who achieved beatification/canonization by improving the state of their heart.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Even though you made it a point to say “none of us know what is in your heart” --it still does not deny that by your prior statement to that–his way dressing does not reflect the “proper reverence” —as by the congregation. And since you said “none of us” --I took this to mean that the “Just less reverent, or…”—was also including you in that type thinking.
It is true CMatt25–did not specifically say to you --stop putting me down etc. ----but he may have been including you (or not)— with the “traditional mindset”.
Now —I will say --that I had missed your post to Annabelle Marie–where you clarified a bit more where you are with this issue.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Well–from someone with your mindset—that’s like the pot calling the kettle black.
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Derek_Ellery
Guest
Heterodox doesn’t come from the Church, you’re dragging this off-topic though…
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