Church attire (all kinds)

[Wampa]

Walking_Home, based on your reply, I still don’t think you comprehend what I was trying to say about the outward message, but at this point in the bogged-down, close textual analysis of my words, I am willing to accept that perhaps I was not clear in my writing and move on. My apologies to CMatt25, if needed (though again, the only people who seemed offended where people other than him).

 

[Derek_Ellery]

Bishop Vasa sums it up quite nicely:

Several years ago, the Holy Father reinstituted a dress code for the churches of Rome, his diocese. No one in shorts or sleeveless shirts was to be admitted into the church building.

An American sense of rights and freedom rebels against such rules, calling them absurdities. Yet it was done and it was enforced. Tourists who had traveled across an ocean to see a church were turned back at the door unless they were properly attired. This was only to visit a church while no other liturgical action was going on. The Holy Father saw a need to institute a policy aimed at restoring, in a very concrete way, a proper sense of reverence for the house of God.

I have often heard the argument that the administrators of churches should be pleased to see that people come, regardless of how they are dressed. The other side of that is that people need to demonstrate in word and deed the proper disposition and attitude. I am certain the American people would be rightfully chagrined if the guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier were to show up in plaid shorts, a tank top and half-laced tennis shoes. It is hard to imagine that he could have a proper interior attitude to the job at hand were he to come to “work” dressed like that.

Our liturgy is a sacred “work”. How we come to that work is probably as important as the fact that we come. We must recognize that we come to church for sacred work, sacred worship. This demands a decorum commensurate with the dignity of the work to be done. Even if that “work” is to utter a private prayer, it still demands an appropriate decorum.

The soldiers at Arlington know the sacredness of the work which they do. Their dress, their demeanor, their discipline all speak of their recognition of that sacredness. Seeing them is a source of pride for me.

I am proud of what they represent, proud of the values which their discipline bespeaks, proud of the country which at heart still knows that honor and fidelity are worth defending.

For these values people live, and for these values people give their lives. The dress and demeanor of these troops says that they truly honor and respect the life and death of those represented at the Tomb of the Unknown.

Catholics likewise need to know the sacredness of the liturgical “work” which they do. Their dress, their demeanor, their discipline, ought all to speak of their recognition of that sacredness.

Seeing the dress and demeanor of Catholics in Church ought to be a source of pride. They ought to manifest a genuine respect for Jesus present, as well as for the values of the Catholic Church. For these values, saints, declared and not declared, gave their lives; for these values each Catholic must be willing to dress in a fashion which shows recognition and respect.

 

[Walking_Home]

Heterodox doesn’t come from the Church, you’re dragging this off-topic though…

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Heterodox at times starts from the idea of “fixing” a perceived wrong. Remember Luther.

 

[Derek_Ellery]

Try staying on-topic if you can.

 

[Walking_Home]

Try staying on-topic if you can.

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Hard to do–when someones idea of Church is set to pre-Vat II.

 

[Derek_Ellery]

A simple “no” would suffice.

 

[Walking_Home]

A simple —“my mind is stuck pre-Vat II --and can’t get out”–is even better.

 

[Derek_Ellery]

I don’t need to state that, it’s a given, however, my adherence to Our Lord’s Church is not the topic at hand: now is it?
If you continue to stray off-topic I’ll not reply, and consider that you can’t defend your believe in the propriety of casual attire for Mass due to it being rooted in comfort and pride.
I have clearly presented arguments from Popes to Bishops promoting the idea that certain dress-codes should be upheld while in the house of God.

 

[Walking_Home]

I don’t need to state that, it’s a given, however, my adherence to Our Lord’s Church is not the topic at hand: now is it?
If you continue to stray off-topic I’ll not reply, and consider that you can’t defend your believe in the propriety of casual attire for Mass due to it being rooted in comfort and pride.
I have clearly presented arguments from Popes to Bishops promoting the idea that certain dress-codes should be upheld while in the house of God.

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meh.

 

[kozlosap]

I don’t need to state that, it’s a given, however, my adherence to Our Lord’s Church is not the topic at hand: now is it?
If you continue to stray off-topic I’ll not reply, and consider that you can’t defend your believe in the propriety of casual attire for Mass due to it being rooted in comfort and pride.
I have clearly presented arguments from Popes to Bishops promoting the idea that certain dress-codes should be upheld while in the house of God.

I’m nominating Derek to be in charge of the Dress Code Police of the Holy Roman Catholic Church (The “one” BEFORE Vll, of course). Now, Derek, et al, when you arrive in Somalia or other countries in East Africa, please make sure all Catholics understand that unless they wear a suit and tie or a dress with long sleeves and at least 5 inches below their knees, they are not allowed inside the church. Our Lord is much more interested in what his people wear, not of what is in their hearts. I hope you are able to publish your dress code rubric online so that the entire body of Christ has access to it.

What a very sad way to live. Must be very lonely up there…

 

[Dan_Daly]

I’m nominating Derek to be in charge of the Dress Code Police of the Holy Roman Catholic Church (The “one” BEFORE Vll, of course). Now, Derek, et al, when you arrive in Somalia or other countries in East Africa, please make sure all Catholics understand that unless they wear a suit and tie or a dress with long sleeves and at least 5 inches below their knees, they are not allowed inside the church. Our Lord is much more interested in what his people wear, not of what is in their hearts. I hope you are able to publish your dress code rubric online so that the entire body of Christ has access to it.

What a very sad way to live. Must be very lonely up there…

I think you will find few, if any, proponents of “dressing up” for Mass who don’t say you should dress as well AS YOU ARE ABLE. Obviously in some place like Somalia where a great many people live in very real poverty and don’t own “dress clothes”, they would not be able to dress in clothes that they don’t have.

However, wearing cut off shorts and a t-shirt to Mass because it is the only set of clothes you own, is very different then wearing cut off shorts and a t-shirt to Mass because you don’t feel like putting on something more appropriate.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

However, wearing cut off shorts and a t-shirt to Mass because it is the only set of clothes you own, is very different then wearing cut off shorts and a t-shirt to Mass because you don’t feel like putting on something more appropriate.

Maybe…but how would the fashion police here know the difference just by looking?

 

[Denise1957]

I have to wonder if part of the problem of some folks here thinking that it’s not a good idea to dress-up for Mass is that it would seem wierd and strange to dress-up when the dominant, secular culture teaches that we should always be casual. I can understand that a woman would feel strange wearing a dress or skirt if she’s rarely ever worn one. She would feel terribly out-of-place, and uncomfortable. Since I’m a woman, I don’t know how men feel about this (my husband isn’t Catholic, so I go to Mass alone), so I can only really relate to a woman’s perspective.

But for those women here who are worried that they will be uncomfortable, I hope that they will just give it a try: buy a skirt or dress, or jumper and wear it Mass. You may be worried that you will stick out like a sore thumb, but then so did Our Lord when He suffered His Passion for us. He was humiliated beyond belief. Not that our goal is to be humiliated, but we shouldn’t fear it.

I always wear pants during the week, and to my job, but I always wear a skirt or jumper to Mass. I purchase most of my clothing from thrift stores, so that I don’t have to spend much, and because I can more likely find modest non-frumpy clothing there.

My mom grew up during the Great Depression. Though they had little money, my grandmother made most of the clothing for the family, and made sure that the family had their “Sunday clothes,” to wear to church, though they were Presbyterians. Most women don’t know how to sew anymore, but modest, nice clothing is still available out there.

 

[Derek_Ellery]

Maybe…but how would the fashion police here know the difference just by looking?

So adhering to the teachings one receives from Popes and Bishops make them the fashion police now? Interesting. Where from Christ’s Church did you receive this notion?
I’m expecting to see encyclicals and other written decrees.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I have to wonder if part of the problem of some folks here thinking that it’s not a good idea to dress-up for Mass is that it would seem wierd and strange to dress-up when the dominant, secular culture teaches that we should always be casual. I can understand that a woman would feel strange wearing a dress or skirt if she’s rarely ever worn one. She would feel terribly out-of-place, and uncomfortable. Since I’m a woman, I don’t know how men feel about this (my husband isn’t Catholic, so I go to Mass alone), so I can only really relate to a woman’s perspective.

But for those women here who are worried that they will be uncomfortable, I hope that they will just give it a try: buy a skirt or dress, or jumper and wear it Mass. You may be worried that you will stick out like a sore thumb, but then so did Our Lord when He suffered His Passion for us. He was humiliated beyond belief. Not that our goal is to be humiliated, but we shouldn’t fear it.

I always wear pants during the week, and to my job, but I always wear a skirt or jumper to Mass. I purchase most of my clothing from thrift stores, so that I don’t have to spend much, and because I can more likely find modest non-frumpy clothing there.

My mom grew up during the Great Depression. Though they had little money, my grandmother made most of the clothing for the family, and made sure that the family had their “Sunday clothes,” to wear to church, though they were Presbyterians. Most women don’t know how to sew anymore, but modest, nice clothing is still available out there.

appreciate the advice…but I’m allergic to pantyhose…so no dresses/skirts for me…my thighs rub together.

I have never had any luck at a thrift store…heck…I can’t even find ones that fit right at a regular store…

 

[eegardner]

I think the 3B rule is a good one to follow about what not to show. No Breasts, No Butts, No Bellies.
I say this in reference to seeing too tight, very short shorts, very short skirts, a lot of cleavage and skin tight ripped jeans.
If you can not wear it to a job interview, you should not wear it to Mass.

 

[Derek_Ellery]

Dress Code

The Dress Code is strictly enforced at St. Peter’s Basilica. No shorts, bare shoulders or miniskirts. This applies to both men and women. Even if you get through security, you will be turned away by the attendants at the door. On a hot summer day, I’ve seen dozens of men in shorts turned away.

saintpetersbasilica.org/touristinfo.htm

 

[Dan_Daly]

Maybe…but how would the fashion police here know the difference just by looking?

I don’t know about the fashion police, but you can get to know your fellow parishioners the old fashioned way…talk to them!

If own a car, own a house, have a job, etc…it’s probably a good bet you could afford a set of Church clothes. Another way of knowing it’s not the only set of clothes a person owns…they don’t wear the same set of clothes each time you see them.

I haven’t been around Catholic Answers forums very long, but I see this issue of reverance and modesty in dress come up very often. That makes sense. At least in my life and my wife’s life, it’s one of the things we really looked at and struggled with as we tried to grow in our faith (and are still working on growing).

In threads like this someone always seems to post “I’ll wear shorts and flip flops, God knows whats in my heart”.

God DOES know what is in all of our hearts. He also knows that how we present ourselves externally does matter in our relationship with him and with one another. We are both physical and spiritual beings. If clothing did not matter in worship, priests would not wear vestments. As lay men and women, we participate in the Mass by praying the Mass with the Priest. Just as the priest needs to wear appropriate attire, so do the parishioners in the pews.

Charity is the key to all of this. It’s easy to look at someone and think “They shouldn’t be wearing that”. It’s important to remember that perhaps you once dressed like that and didn’t realize you were doing anything wrong. We should all be trying to grow in our faith and we are all at different points along the road.

As I said to my wife the other day on the topic…the world would be a better place if all women wore modest skirts and dresses instead of pants/shorts/etc. However, it will only be a better place when women (and men for that matter) dress modestly and reverently BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO FREELY OUT OF LOVE. It’s the same reason God gives us free will. He could force us to obey all the commandments all the time. But we would not be loving him by doing so. Forcing someone to dress in a modest manner, as is often done in the Middle East, strips the act of dressing modestly of the love that should come with it.

That being said, there is a lot of room for discussion and prayerful discrenment on how to best help someone get to the point of dressing more modestly because they want to for the right reasons. SOMETIMES a swift kick in the seat of the pants/skirt is the most loving thing to do. The important thing is to speak the truth and do so with kindness.

 

[Denise1957]

appreciate the advice…but I’m allergic to pantyhose…so no dresses/skirts for me…my thighs rub together.

I have never had any luck at a thrift store…heck…I can’t even find ones that fit right at a regular store…

Hey, I understand. I hate pantyhose, too. REALLY hate it. But it’s only for two or three hours a week. Some women can’t wear dresses or skirts, though, and that’s okay. It’s about 10 or 20% of the women who wear pants to Mass where I attend, and no one bats an eye, that I’m aware of. The TLM parish that I attend doesn’t require women to wear dresses, but most of us do. The guidelines are that the hem of the dresses or skirts should at least fall to the knee, and that tight fitting clothing that accentuate the feminine form are to be avoided.

Some women can’t wear dresses, just as some folks can’t kneel, due to a physical ailment, to receive Holy Communion. That’s okay. There are often exceptions.

I live in a city where thrift stores are a bit of a fad and quite popular - and not just for poor folks. They are everywhere. I know that in some towns or cities, there aren’t too many.

 

[Derek_Ellery]

Epistle Of Saint Paul To Titus - Chapter 2

[1] But speak thou the things that become sound doctrine: [2] That the aged men be sober, chaste, prudent, sound in faith, in love, in patience. [3] The aged women, in like manner, in holy attire, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teaching well: