Church attire (all kinds)

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In this week’s church bulletin, there’s a quote by Archbishop Fulton Sheen that I think is appropriate for the subject of modesty ( and other things, too), even though modesty is not specifically what the Archbishop is referring to. It’s from the book, Peace of Soul,
ch.12:

"God is willing to take either our old bones or our young dreams, for He loves us, not because of the way we are, but because of what we can be through grace.

Curiously enough, it is a fear of how grace WILL change and improve them that keeps many souls away from God. They want God to take them as they are and let them stay that way. They want Him to take away their love of riches, but not the riches – to purge them of the disgust of sin, but not the pleasure of sin. Some of them equate goodness with indifference to evil and think that God is good if He is broad-minded or tolerant about evil. Like the onlookers at the Cross, they want God on their own terms, not His, and they shout: “Come down and we will believe.” But the things they ask are marks of a false religion: it promises salvation without a Cross, abandonment without sacrifice, Christ without His nails. God is a consuming fire; or desire for God must include a willingness to have the chaff burned from our intellect and the weeds of our sinful pride purged. The very fear souls have of surrendering themselves to the Lord with a cross is an evidence of their instinctive belief in His Holiness. Because God is fire, we cannot escape Him, whether we draw near for conversion or flee from aversion: In either case, He affects us. If we accept His love, its fires will illumine and warm us; if we reject Him, they will still burn on in us in frustration and remorse."

I really like these words of the Archbishop. They have a lot of meaning on different levels, but perhaps some will think that his words are as out-dated as the idea of wearing modest clothing to Mass.
 
Denise1957 said:
In this week’s church bulletin, there’s a quote by Archbishop Fulton Sheen that I think is appropriate for the subject of modesty ( and other things, too), even though modesty is not specifically what the Archbishop is referring to. It’s from the book, Peace of Soul,
ch.12:

"God is willing to take either our old bones or our young dreams, for He loves us, not because of the way we are, but because of what we can be through grace.

Curiously enough, it is a fear of how grace WILL change and improve them that keeps many souls away from God. They want God to take them as they are and let them stay that way. They want Him to take away their love of riches, but not the riches – to purge them of the disgust of sin, but not the pleasure of sin. Some of them equate goodness with indifference to evil and think that God is good if He is broad-minded or tolerant about evil. Like the onlookers at the Cross, they want God on their own terms, not His, and they shout: “Come down and we will believe.” But the things they ask are marks of a false religion: it promises salvation without a Cross, abandonment without sacrifice, Christ without His nails. God is a consuming fire; or desire for God must include a willingness to have the chaff burned from our intellect and the weeds of our sinful pride purged. The very fear souls have of surrendering themselves to the Lord with a cross is an evidence of their instinctive belief in His Holiness. Because God is fire, we cannot escape Him, whether we draw near for conversion or flee from aversion: In either case, He affects us. If we accept His love, its fires will illumine and warm us; if we reject Him, they will still burn on in us in frustration and remorse."

I really like these words of the Archbishop. They have a lot of meaning on different levels, but perhaps some will think that his words are as out-dated as the idea of wearing modest clothing to Mass.
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I myself love that quote…thank you for sharing. I don’t think anyone here is saying you don’t have to be modest when you are going to Mass…but there seems to be disagreement on what modest is and whether you should be in your best clothing all the time…if that is good enough or you need to buy more. Is pants appropriate or if your best for a woman means a skirt…it goes on and on.
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
Do you go to a great feast or a wedding every day? If so, do you have a closet full of nothing but the best clothes? You still have not addressed the situation for those of us that go to Mass every day…from work. I wear what I wear to work as I don’t have the time to change back and forth between clothes…heck I barely have time to get there and back.

The point being…you…or someone else is always going to judge what I’m wearing…I can’t worry about that…I worry about making it to Mass.

I don’t think anyone is advocating low cut dirty clothing. But when you talk about people’s best…that is different for everyone and will always be so. So, I don’t think you can judge peoples appearance as such. My best may not be your best…oh well. Surely you are not advocating that I go out and buy a bunch of clothes to fit your standard and wear every day?
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If you go to Mass, then theologically speaking you do in fact, got to a wedding every day, and a great feast. And I would certainly dress with the best clothing available to me every single day. This includes wearing “dressy” clothing for as long as I have them available.

Fortunetly for me (and I don’t say this lightly actually, particularly as I was born in Peru, South America) I have some selection of nice clothing and laundry available to me in my home. As such, I honestly could dress up every single day, and I probably would. If only any of the local parishes offered a service that didn’t clash with my work schedule. St. Michael is getting close to ideal, I’m praying they add just one more earlier daily mass.
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
Clothing in general is different then it was back then…no? Pictures of my grandparents show them if suits/dresses a majority of the time…so…for them to go to church…that is what they wore. I doubt it was the best they had at the time.

Now a days…pajamas pass as clothing that you wear outside…🤷 (I hate that fad…Hey…you…the rest of us got dressed…why can’t you?)
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There’s a reason why it’s called your “Sunday Best”, because your best was for Sunday. I quote two priests discussing this very point one page back. If you haven’t read it yet, I would invite you to go back and read. The first quotation is taking from a parish website to it’s parishiners in Canada. The second is blog posting by Msrg Charles Pope (I wonder if he’s looking to climb to the top of the church… =P).
 
crazzeto said:
There’s a reason why it’s called your “Sunday Best”, because your best was for Sunday. I quote two priests discussing this very point one page back. If you haven’t read it yet, I would invite you to go back and read. The first quotation is taking from a parish website to it’s parishiners in Canada. The second is blog posting by Msrg Charles Pope (I wonder if he’s looking to climb to the top of the church… =P).
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Sorry-no time to go read links-working almost day and night on year end close…and sadly also through some of my lunch hours…

Besides…you can get different opinions from different priests so what is your point anyway…none of the priests where I go have a problem with dress…other than to say you should be praying after communion instead of watching the fashion parade…
 
crazzeto said:
If you go to Mass, then theologically speaking you do in fact, got to a wedding every day, and a great feast. And I would certainly dress with the best clothing available to me every single day. This includes wearing “dressy” clothing for as long as I have them available.
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So…you have dressy clothing…I do not. Am I a big sinner? I don’t own Sunday best…I see no point spending money on “Sunday” best that I’m going to wear for one hour on a Sunday…and it would have to be more than one outfit unless I’m going to wear the same exact thing every Sunday. That too me is gettting too caught up in the external. Do I wear what I would for yard work…no…I wear the same thing on Sunday that I wear to other Masses during the week…what I wear to work.

Do you spend a lot of time judging what other people wear at Mass? What do you do if you see someone wearing jeans? or a woman wearing pants? You seem awfully caught up in this…I sure hope you are not like the pharisee saying “Lord I thank you that I’m not dressed like THAT poor sinner”…😃

Sigh…don’t bother to answer…I have tons of work going on and won’t be on this board anyway…

Peace to you regardless.
 
Maybe I missed it? Does anyone have any sources for decent, AFFORDABLE, clothing for women. I was shopping today and, gee, guess what? Hooker wear everywhere.
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
So…you have dressy clothing…I do not. Am I a big sinner? I don’t own Sunday best…I see no point spending money on “Sunday” best that I’m going to wear for one hour on a Sunday…and it would have to be more than one outfit unless I’m going to wear the same exact thing every Sunday. That too me is gettting too caught up in the external. Do I wear what I would for yard work…no…I wear the same thing on Sunday that I wear to other Masses during the week…what I wear to work.

Do you spend a lot of time judging what other people wear at Mass? What do you do if you see someone wearing jeans? or a woman wearing pants? You seem awfully caught up in this…I sure hope you are not like the pharisee saying “Lord I thank you that I’m not dressed like THAT poor sinner”…😃

Sigh…don’t bother to answer…I have tons of work going on and won’t be on this board anyway…

Peace to you regardless.
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Of course you are not a great sinner, that is not the point the Priests I share are making… They can’t call you a great sinner (read Msgr Pope), but what they can do is the same thing that is repeatedly being done in this forum. Exhort the faithful to a better standard, and offer many good reasons for the higher standard. We have seen how before we treated the Mass as something special, and heard many reasons why it is good to do so again. Now you say you don’t have nice clothing?
Jane11 said:
Maybe I missed it? Does anyone have any sources for decent, AFFORDABLE, clothing for women. I was shopping today and, gee, guess what? Hooker wear everywhere.
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Same place my wife and I get a lot of our baby clothing, and our own nice clothing for that matter. At your local thrift store. You can buy $1,000 outfits in great condition for $5 and under. Not even stuff that is out of date from the 70’s either, all relevent good nice clothing. It is very possible, that with practically no investmant at all (to speak of) you can build, eventually, a nice section of your closet worth of nice clothing.
 
crazzeto said:
Of course you are not a great sinner, that is not the point the Priests I share are making… They can’t call you a great sinner (read Msgr Pope), but what they can do is the same thing that is repeatedly being done in this forum. Exhort the faithful to a better standard, and offer many good reasons for the higher standard. We have seen how before we treated the Mass as something special, and heard many reasons why it is good to do so again. Now you say you don’t have nice clothing?

Same place my wife and I get a lot of our baby clothing, and our own nice clothing for that matter. At your local thrift store. You can buy $1,000 outfits in great condition for $5 and under. Not even stuff that is out of date from the 70’s either, all relevent good nice clothing. It is very possible, that with practically no investmant at all (to speak of) you can build, eventually, a nice section of your closet worth of nice clothing.
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Interesting. And what sort of message do you think thrift store clothing is sending?

"Sorry, God is not worth the bother of saving up for and spending real money on my clothing for. He’ll have to make do with a five-buck outfit, but hey, it only matters that it doesn’t LOOK like it only cost my spare change, right? 🤷

Hardly a genuine “Sunday best” attitude, in my humble opinion.
 
LilyM said:
Interesting. And what sort of message do you think thrift store clothing is sending?

"Sorry, God is not worth the bother of saving up for and spending real money on my clothing for. He’ll have to make do with a five-buck outfit, but hey, it only matters that it doesn’t LOOK like it only cost my spare change, right? 🤷

Hardly a genuine “Sunday best” attitude, in my humble opinion.
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You have a very poor image of what “thrift store” clothing is… In all seriousness, have you ever been inside of one before? I don’t intend to be challenging or any such thing in my tone, rather I really do want to know. The fact of the matter is, a lot of very nice stuff gets tossed because “I don’t like it any more”, “I won’t wear it” or “that stain will never come out” (except with some professional cleaning it does come right out).

Thrift stores offer a very good option for the average person who had a need for some very nice clothing for special occations, but can’t afford a place like Mens Wearhouse or Sax 5th Ave. If you happen to be in a position where you can afford that, great. If not, then you can support your local thrift store which is a good cause all around, and you really can (with a discerning eye) get as good a deal as I mention. I know this for a fact, because this is what my family has done for years, since my dad lost his VP of International Sales (insurance) job back when I was in High School. Now my own family does this too, in addition to regular clothing shopping as well.
 
LilyM said:
Interesting. And what sort of message do you think thrift store clothing is sending?

"Sorry, God is not worth the bother of saving up for and spending real money on my clothing for. He’ll have to make do with a five-buck outfit, but hey, it only matters that it doesn’t LOOK like it only cost my spare change, right? 🤷

Hardly a genuine “Sunday best” attitude, in my humble opinion.
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What a strange thing to say. Even rich folks shop at thrift shops for interesting finds.

This actually brings up a point about Sunday best versus expensive clothes. In modesty threads, a lot of people confuse dressing decently with dressing expensively. The two are not necessarily correlated. You can spend $500 on a pair of jeans with strategic rips. You can spend $10 on a decent suit.

I don’t tend to dress like I’m going to a wedding, but I make the extra effort to not look like I’m going to pick up a carton of milk (remember that thread?) when I’m going to mass.
 
  1. We are going to see God on Sunday. That is where the “Sunday Best” mindset comes into play.
  2. Thrift shopping is OK but if you are tall, such as I am, you hardly ever find anything there. Thanks for the idea though. I’ll have to save, I guess 👍.
  3. No one seems to be thinking, “thank you Lord I’m not dressed like that poor sinner”; all the priests are asking for is the correct mindset for worship which is reflected in our clothing to the best of our ability.
Please, let’s not start a war here. If you are not “convicted” to wear Sunday Best clothing to church then that’s between you and God. If your conscience is being pricked, then maybe you may want to pray about it. All the priests are doing is trying to lift us up to a higher plane so we can worship and participate in the Mass more fully - that’s what they do, after all! 😃 Appropriate clothing for the situation is always helpful to put one into the correct frame of mind. It is a helpful aid and that’s what the priests strive for, don’t you think?
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Once again, Matt, it is NOT a case of ‘either you wear something nice, OR you open your heart to the Lord’ as if only the latter is important.

They are BOTH important. One’s ‘outside’ historically has been understood to both indicate the ‘inside’ and make it visible.

IOW, one starts with the ‘heart’ and one then ‘clothes’ the mind AND the body as well.

One does not just STOP with the heart and say, Oh OK, I’m FULL of reverence on the inside, that is ALL the matters, I don’t HAVE to actually DEMONSTRATE on the ‘outside’ what I feel on the inside.’

Now while it is possible (though extremely unlikely in today’s mega-casual culture) that a person could be dressed ‘reverently’ on the outside and not be reverent within, at least you are getting an OUTWARD appearance that indicates that if the person is not inwardly reverent, HE SHOULD BE.

Whereas if you have an ‘ultrareverent on the inside’ person dressed and acting as if there is nothing ‘special’ going on in life, HOW are you SUPPOSED to even GUESS this person is 'full of reverence?" What differentiates the man or woman wearing sloppy and unkempt ‘comfy clothes’ who is just focused on ‘comfort’ and one who is 'full of reverence?"

We NEED signs and symbols, Matt. That’s why our Church is so blessed with things like statues and other sacramentals. . .OUTSIDE SIGNS of INWARD PIETY.
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This was an excellent responce and I’m sure all of us can agree that Mary Magdalene stopped dressing like a prostitute after coming to our Lord. 👍
 
Jane11 said:
  1. We are going to see God on Sunday. That is where the “Sunday Best” mindset comes into play.
  2. Thrift shopping is OK but if you are tall, such as I am, you hardly ever find anything there. Thanks for the idea though. I’ll have to save, I guess 👍.
  3. No one seems to be thinking, “thank you Lord I’m not dressed like that poor sinner”; all the priests are asking for is the correct mindset for worship which is reflected in our clothing to the best of our ability.
Please, let’s not start a war here. If you are not “convicted” to wear Sunday Best clothing to church then that’s between you and God. If your conscience is being pricked, then maybe you may want to pray about it. All the priests are doing is trying to lift us up to a higher plane so we can worship and participate in the Mass more fully - that’s what they do, after all! 😃 Appropriate clothing for the situation is always helpful to put one into the correct frame of mind. It is a helpful aid and that’s what the priests strive for, don’t you think?
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Thrift shopping has never helped me either. I spend way to much time and can’t find anything…because I’m not built like your average woman…I’ve got too many curves.

It’s not necessarily even what the priests say…or strive for…because some posters here will go far beyond that–even arguing with priests about it.

There is a difference between dressing like a prostitute and dressing like you do for work–no? Or at least there should be. My point is that no matter what I wear…as long as I feel right with God…there is always going to be someone thinking that I’m not reverent enough…like the previous thread on this topic where short sleeve blouses were considered irreverent.

If so and so Sally is behind me all puckered up because I’m wearing Dockers to Mass…then maybe she needs to work on her attitude as well…because there will always be things that try to distract us at Mass. And I don’t believe God is pleased with that kind of attitude either…

I’ve worn jeans to Mass before but will not wear them when I’m scheduled to serve as an EMHC…but I know others that do…but I don’t get all wrinkly and puckered about them nor do I say “well I should just wear jeans then when I’m scheduled” because I know that I feel called not to. But of course there is probably someone out there at Mass that would be upset because I’m wearing pants and not a skirt:shrug:
 
My workplace has a business casual dress code in my office. Those who do other types of work will dress accordingly in the company I am employed for.

I make sure the clothes I pick for work will also be appropriate for Mass. That means staying away as much as possible from: tight, revealing, short, and cleavage bearing styles. I do have many choices in my closet in terms of shirts/tops/sweaters, pants/trousers, skirts, capri style pants for summer time, long skirts and footwear. Most of those items are for good for both church and work.

I do have some clothes appropriate for other times and events like sporting events, concerts, parties, etc. Those clothes for those items in this new paragraph I would dare not wear to Mass and work. At work on weekends, we are allowed to wear things nice tees, jeans, etc but short shorts, tank tops etc are still forbidden.
 
I am glad you help out the way you do. I would much rather see a woman EMHC wearing a nice shirt and pants (like my mother does as she does EMHC too, I have in the past also) compared to one wearing a sleeveless top & shorts that don’t make it close to the knees.
Annabelle_Marie said:
I’ve worn jeans to Mass before but will not wear them when I’m scheduled to serve as an EMHC…but I know others that do…but I don’t get all wrinkly and puckered about them nor do I say “well I should just wear jeans then when I’m scheduled” because I know that I feel called not to. But of course there is probably someone out there at Mass that would be upset because I’m wearing pants and not a skirt:shrug:
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I’ve been doing a lot of prayer and pondering on this and I’ve come to the conclusion that what is needed is education, modeling, prayer and perseverance.

So from now on I will continue dressing modestly as I feel God has called me and according to reasonable modest guidelines for dignity, decorum, and common sense, not making thousands of ‘situational’ exceptions but also not caught up in endless speculations.

I will continue to not judge any woman or man even if they are not meeting any of the standards, because I don’t know their hearts, BUT that doesn’t mean that I will remain silent and be ‘complicit’ in their not learning the truth if the reason they are not meeting said standards is that they do not know. Pope Benedict himself said his generation (and he’s a generation older than I even!) did NOT evangelise enough, so that means we have to step up to the plate, but we can do this with great charity, gentleness, HUMOR that is Christ-like and brings GOOD feelings, not hurt. . .

And I will trust the Holy Spirit that in this, as with everything else, He will be helping to bring about the Kingdom of God on Earth as in Heaven. I don’t have to do anything other than obey Him and tell others the good news, in its entirety and not edited for ‘situations’. . . keep on praying and loving, and follow Him.

Well that’s a load off my mind for sure and gives me much more time to pray and listen for guidance and be ready to help others!
 
Did anyone see the thread in Lit and Sacraments about the couple who had a pamplet handed to them about modest atttire…and the wife was not at all dressed wrong? But the lady handing out the pamplets thought that any skin showing could lead men to sin?

It’s sad that it now makes his wife uncomfortable at Mass just because this lady appointed herself to be the dress police.
 
This is a good thing, I wish you all the best!
Tantum_ergo said:
I’ve been doing a lot of prayer and pondering on this and I’ve come to the conclusion that what is needed is education, modeling, prayer and perseverance.

So from now on I will continue dressing modestly as I feel God has called me and according to reasonable modest guidelines for dignity, decorum, and common sense, not making thousands of ‘situational’ exceptions but also not caught up in endless speculations.

I will continue to not judge any woman or man even if they are not meeting any of the standards, because I don’t know their hearts, BUT that doesn’t mean that I will remain silent and be ‘complicit’ in their not learning the truth if the reason they are not meeting said standards is that they do not know. Pope Benedict himself said his generation (and he’s a generation older than I even!) did NOT evangelise enough, so that means we have to step up to the plate, but we can do this with great charity, gentleness, HUMOR that is Christ-like and brings GOOD feelings, not hurt. . .

And I will trust the Holy Spirit that in this, as with everything else, He will be helping to bring about the Kingdom of God on Earth as in Heaven. I don’t have to do anything other than obey Him and tell others the good news, in its entirety and not edited for ‘situations’. . . keep on praying and loving, and follow Him.

Well that’s a load off my mind for sure and gives me much more time to pray and listen for guidance and be ready to help others!
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