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pnewton
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Weird. So it wasn’t an Amazonian ceremony? It makes about as much sense as Quetzalcoatl.
Church Authority and the Amazon Controversy
- Thread starter Willing_Spirit
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Dovekin
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People who say they are idols are accusing those who have used them ritually of having an idolatrous intention.
Seems pretty off topic, like you are just trying to disparage the Pope. It is pretty common for people to make that kind of mistake when they hear a believer talk about Jesus. The affirmation of his humanity is misunderstood as a negation of his divinity, though we should trust the Pope understands Jesus is both human and divine.
Again, off topic. Personally, I think $25 idolatry is a more important than $750k theft. Start another thread if you do not want to discuss the possible idolatry.
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Aquinas11
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Right now people are disparaging the Pope and saying he said this and I’d like it to stop, yet you accuse me of wanting to disparage him?
Discussing the Pachamamma isn’t off topic.
ok so back to the question, do you know what “idolatrous intention” means?
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graciew
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He may be using the Quechuan voice for the earth not for a deity.
It is not uncommon in the popular culture to understand pachamama as the earth but not as a deity.
It is truly belongs to the Andean culture. One may hear “ la pachamama “ and think of the earth particularly. Even in the city.Not that it implies “Pachamama”.
I doubt it is the word and voice Amazonian tribes use but for us in South America particularly west, north west it is understood .
There is really no particular representation of the voice la pachamama .
If it helps, if not just delete…
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GiftofMercy
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we are also called to obedience to the magisterium. Its a source of confusion and scandal .
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gracepoole
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So now the statues are back and about to be on display in St. Peter’s. This is why I worried about the action of throwing them in the river. The Vatican is doubling down and giving the statues even more prominence. I hate to say it, but I don’t think you can win in this sort of situation. The Holy See is the Holy See. Essentially it holds all the cards. The Benedict Option is looking better by the day…
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GiftofMercy
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What is the Benedict option
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Aquinas11
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I think destroying them.
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gracepoole
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gracepoole:
What os the Benedict option
(Please note: I’m not a fan of Rod Dreher. But at times it’s like we’re through the looking-glass…)
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GiftofMercy
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Did the Pope actually call the wooden statues by the name of p… ma. In the vatican news memo. I wont pronounce is as we should not be writing or pronouncing demon names.
Or is that in the translation.
Or is that in the translation.
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gracepoole
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I think that’s known as the Tim Gordon option.
(Before anyone flags me, read Gordon’s Twitter feed to find the reference.)
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Aquinas11
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Yeah I was down with that
No but seriously I thought ST Benedict was one who destroyed the Idol altar and cut down the Tree that heretics were worshipping as idols that’s what I thought you meant by “Benedict option”
No but seriously I thought ST Benedict was one who destroyed the Idol altar and cut down the Tree that heretics were worshipping as idols that’s what I thought you meant by “Benedict option”
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gracepoole
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Yes, Boniface not Benedict, @Aquinas11. 
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Aquinas11
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Gordon was so pissed he was going to take the axe to the guys who removed the Idols for not also removing the breastfeeding pic 
…totally understandable
…totally understandable
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GiftofMercy
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We must pray for this magisterium.
If the Pope truly named the wooden carvings this way
Pope Francis’ words
Good afternoon. I want to say a word about the statues of the pachamama that were taken from the church of the Transpontina – which were there without idolatrous intentions – and were thrown into the Tiber.
If the Pope truly named the wooden carvings this way
Pope Francis’ words
Good afternoon. I want to say a word about the statues of the pachamama that were taken from the church of the Transpontina – which were there without idolatrous intentions – and were thrown into the Tiber.
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graciew
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It would be like not naming the planets because their names come from deities…Venus, Mars…
It is like using a foreign word( in this case indigenous, Quechuan) to express a concept instead of your own language.
La pachamama.
I do not know nor have checked whether he used it nor it is important for me if he did or not, I am sharing for those interested if there are…it is languages
It is like using a foreign word( in this case indigenous, Quechuan) to express a concept instead of your own language.
La pachamama.
I do not know nor have checked whether he used it nor it is important for me if he did or not, I am sharing for those interested if there are…it is languages
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GiftofMercy
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Yes he used it, its easy to read in Italian
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graciew
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Thanks, Gift!
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rom
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Not for this magisterium. For this Pope.
He said that the statues of the pachamama were placed in the Church “without idolatrous intentions.” Perhaps that is true. The problem is, we cannot see or read mental intentions. What we see is what was done at the ceremony.
Also, if it was previously explained what the statues were, and what the prostrations and chanting were all about before the ceremony even started, then those remarks would have made sense. But it is too late now. How credible would that be when he said it only after he found out that faithful Catholics were very displeased with it?
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Dovekin
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An idolatrous intention is an intent to offer latria to an idol or image. Latria is the supreme form of worship that is reserved for God alone. The assertion that the statues were without idolatrous intention means that no one involved intended to display latria to them, despite many people accusing others of idolatry.
I do not know what it is you do not understand or want explained, so it is hard to know what to explain.
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