Church Authority and the Amazon Controversy

[GiftofMercy]

The persecution of the early Church was more of a Jewish/political persecution. Not the pagans trying to force Christians to participate in pagan festivals.

Having studied the Early Church I must disagree with this.
Please research the history of our Early Church. I can start a new thread on this once I am post exams. It is the time of great Martyrs amid the great persecutions of Christians. There were three really horrific periods

 

[Rubee]

Having studied the Early Church I must disagree with this.
Please research the history of our Early Church. I can start a new thread on this once I am post exams. It is the time of great Martyrs amid the great persecutions of Christians. There were three really horrific periods

My understanding is that Christians were targets for the same reasons Jews were: they wouldn’t worship the emperor. But Jews had some kind of arrangement that let them off the hook. What they did was not instigate the pagan persecution against Christians but throw Christians under the bus by making sure the Romans knew “these were not Jews”.

 

[GiftofMercy]

We must separate the Jewish people from the Christian people in this period.
Granted this is from Wikipedia but explains that the Jewish religion was a recognised one, and as such the Jews were not persecuted for not worshipping pagan gods. They did not throw Christians under the bus. The Roman Empire did not recognise Christianity as a legal religion. Christians were thought of as a sect or cult or straight out rebellion to the empire.

Under Julius Caesar, Judaism was officially recognised as a legal religion, a policy followed by the first Roman emperor, Augustus. Herod the Great was designated ‘King of the Jews’ by the Roman Senate in c. 40 BC, the Roman province of Egypt was established in 30 BC, and Judea proper, Samaria and Idumea (biblical Edom) were converted to the Roman province of Iudaea in 6 AD. Jewish–Roman tensions resulted in several Jewish–Roman wars, 66–135 AD, which resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple and institution of the Jewish Tax in 70 and Hadrian’s attempt to create a new Roman colony named Aelia Capitolina c. 130.

 

[Rubee]

We must separate the Jewish people from the Christian people in this period.
Granted this is from Wikipedia but explains that the Jewish religion was a recognised one, and as such the Jews were not persecuted for not worshipping pagan gods. They did not throw Christians under the bus. The Roman Empire did not recognise Christianity as a legal religion. Christians were thought of as a sect or cult or straight out rebellion to the empire.

Yes, but for a time the Jewish Christians could get away by their Jewishness, and the Jewish authorities, from my understanding, are the ones who ensured the Romans knew not to treat them as Jews. It was not completely clear in the beginning, that Christianity was a completely separate religion from Judaism. Remember, it began essentially as a Jewish sect.

the Jewish religion was a recognised one,

Yes, I knew the Jews had some sort of arrangement with the empire that allowed them to get away with not making an offering to Caesar as a god but did not remember the nature of this arrangement.

 

[GiftofMercy]

Judaism was recognised by Rome as a legal religion before Christ and Christianity. The Romans thought they would reinstate the time of Kings for the Jewish religion with Herod.

Depending on the locality and person in charge, and if a rebellion was happening or not, different Roman governors and emperors cut the Christian Jews some slack. But then there were so many gentile converts in the Diaspora after a time. It all degenerated into several centuries of Christian persecution. Constantine put a stop to it and declared Christianity a religion, allowing churches to be built and people to worship God.

The Early Church here is the first few hundred years until the first Council called by Constantine

 

[Rubee]

The New Testament makes abundantly clear that the idolatry tempting Christians is idolatry of the flesh ie. putting our earthly desires before the commandments of God through Christ.

The New Testament speaks of pagan idolatry too.

 

[Tolle_Lege]

We need to pray for the Holy Father that he makes decisions in his exhortation on the Amazon in accordance with Scripture and Tradition.

At most, perhaps a study of married priests under extremely specific circumstances may be prudent for some areas of the world; but opening the priesthood to universal norms allowing marriage would be a fracture with tradition and the gift of celibacy.

The Holy Father has already spoken clearly that women priests cannot be allowed, and he does not seem sold on the idea of female deacons. The 2002 study done on female deacons concluded that they had no sacramental role, and the study ordered under Pope Francis came to a similar conclusion. But the people who keep pressing for this are apparently convinced that they’re going to find some evidence or proof that women can be ordained. They are wrong; they cannot be.

It would be equally erroneous to allow women to wear vestments on the altar as “lectors” or “acolytes,” as the perception would be that women can somehow approach the idea of male priesthood. These errors of secular ideas of equality persist in the Church today and we must pray that the Holy Father teaches clearly on the different roles between men and women in the Church; he has done this before, but the modernists were deaf to his words.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Thank you.

 

[Sarcelle]

The sedevacantists are not in this thread, I think, but is seen in a much larger pattern amongst the most ardent critics of Pope Francis in real life.

This idol controversy is just another excuse to keep piling on Pope Francis.

These same critics also gave the same treatment to the other Popes that came after Pope Piux XII.

It doesn’t help that the media takes Pope Francis quotes out of context and these sedevacantists are all too willing to accept anything that makes Pope Francis look especially bad.

 

[TheBomb.Com]

What of the persecution under Trajan, in which Christians were given a choice of death or worship of the pagan gods?

 

[TheBomb.Com]

I think it’s time to stop defending Pope Francis and let him speak for himself. I feel that he’s been relying on ardent supporters these 6 years in order to maintain his innocence. It’s time to stop.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

The sedevacantists are not in this thread, I think, but is seen in a much larger pattern amongst the most ardent critics of Pope Francis in real life.

This idol controversy is just another excuse to keep piling on Pope Francis.

I think what is happening in the Church right now doesn’t have anything to do with sedevacantists. Sedevacantists are really not that big enough of a number to be that loud of a voice.

What is happening today is causing concerns from many Catholics, including laity, priests, bishops, cardinals and more.

It’s not a sedevacantist issue.

 

[yankeesouth]

What is happening today is causing concerns from many Catholics, including laity, priests, bishops, cardinals and more.

From what I understand the wooden idols were not present at the end of synod Mass which might tell us if they were harmless the liberals would have been proud to parade them. Perhaps those who defended the Faith by throwing them into the river and the outcry from laity made a difference.

 

[gracepoole]

Margaret_Ann:

I cried when he resigned. It was worse than losing my dad (no pun intended).

I also cried when Pope Benedict resigned. But more than our tears… Something else perhaps more powerful. As reported by BBC News,

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Or St. Peter’s is the highest point for lightning to strike in that region.

 

[TheBomb.Com]

I like to think of that event as an omen. A warning that we would never think of the Pontificate in the same way after Benedict resigned. A defining moment in the Church.

 

[Vico]

Can you make me some common ocvurrence of stealing whete the thief doesn’t gain anything?

Taking something to deprive another of it but which is not useful to you in itself. The thing may be discarded or destroyed.

 

[Alphard]

For example? A real situation?

 

[Jen7]

Or St. Peter’s is the highest point for lightning to strike in that region.

I read that meteorologists say it hasn’t not happened before, though. And it wasn’t not a cloudy/rainy day. (Yes, I know “bolts from the blue” are a thing… but it is still QUITE the coincidence in my book!)

 

[Vico]

For example? A real situation?

To deface a car from envy, for example.

 

[Alphard]

In that case you still gain something for you, the satisfaction of hurting the person that owns the car