Church Authority and the Amazon Controversy

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Dovekin said:
At the French Revolution, French people entered their churches and destroyed statues of saints be ause they judged them idolatrous (and more).
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French Catholics did not destroy statues in Catholic churches. The Revolutionaries did that, and they rejected religion, especially the Catholic religion. They killed priests and nuns, and took over Catholic churches in order to suppress religion. Since the Revolutionaries had rejected the Catholic Church, they had no more right to access the churches or to call the shots - they usurped it. St. Jean Vianney, who grew up during the Reign of Terror as a faithful boy practicing religion in secret, wrote, “He who would destroy religion first attacks the priest.” Not statues, but the priest.

The person who entered the church in Rome may or may not have belonged to that church as a parishioner, but it doesn’t matter, because he is a faithful Catholic, and so he has a natural right and a duty to defend the sanctity of the Tabernacle.

When a priest has sex on the altar, as occurred in Ireland a year or two ago, it’s not by his own authority, because he can only act with authority when it is given by God, and since blasphemy is an offense against God, and God cannot act in contradiction to Himself, He doesn’t grant any priest or bishop the authority to commit blasphemy. The same is true with these statues. There are conditions under which the Faithful are not obligated to obey the bishops, or to assume they are acting with authority.

If you think we must obey the bishops in every instance, then it would seem relativistic to you to be disobedient when they offend God, even though God has made it known that idolatry offends Him. Catholics who wish to be faithful to the Church would do well to remember the Gospel Reading from a few weeks ago, when Jesus said those who lead others astray will be beaten severely, while those who allow themselves to be led astray will be beaten, as well, but not as severely. “The bishop made me do it” is not an excuse to offend God.
 
VanitasVanitatum said:
A more tactful option could have been chosen first.
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People have been trying to ask Clergy to stop this every day. Media who have legitimate objections to the idols are barred from Vatican press conferences. Thus they end up having to walk up to Cardinals on the street and ask them why this is happening. They get no response other than “call my office and schedule a meeting” to which the reporters say “I did they said I can’t get a meeting”. So what is a lay person to do if they have legitimate objections to the idols, are barred from Vatican press conferences and when manage to bump into Cardinals in public are told to “call my office”? Clearly all options have been exhausted. To suggest otherwise is being delusional.
 
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I’ll take that into consideration.
 
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Willing_Spirit said:
Yes, but someone has to decide what obeying God means, and unless we want to be like Protestants that someone isn’t us, the laity.
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A Catholic should be able to come up with a reasonable judgement by understanding the Catechism and Bible in light of the Church.
 
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Some people are just stubborn and you can’t really say anything that will change their minds.
 
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“His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for thy house will consume me.””

John 2:17 (RSV)
 
It wasn’t stealing – Jesuits teach in moral theology (at least I was told by one who was taught by Jesuits) That if a child is starving and he steals some bread – that child is not doing evil, he is trying to survive which is right regarding his body, starving to death etc.
You do not know their motives except that they believe what is being done to the sacred section of the Church as well as what we believe as Catholics is being falsified as well as blaspheming God. Who are we to judge?, as one said who is a Jesuit.
 
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We are stewards of the garden. Not landlords. God decides property rights in extreme situations
 
Willing_Spirit said:
Yes, but someone has to decide what obeying God means, and unless we want to be like Protestants that someone isn’t us, the laity.
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We laity are obligated under obedience to develop a well-formed conscience, so we had better learn what obeying God means, because we answer to Him in the end. The devil will always try to confuse us and is most successful when we don’t know or understand His commandments.
 
I don’t know what to think anymore. I just don’t know enough about the situation. If they were right, good on them for having the confidence to stand against evil. If they acted prematurely, God forgive them and prevent future recklessness.
 
This whole business with the icons is a horribly sad affair. I wish they were never involved with the Synod. I wish none of this was happening. Throwing them in the river is a conclusion to a story that should have never began.
 
When I was younger, I felt the same way. I even thought of leaving the Church when I was in college because of how a priest treated me (that’s another story).

Like you, I regained my faith through others - specifically my college friends. I learned from their good example that the Church was more than priests, holy as they are.

Read 1 Corinthians 12: 24-26.

I agree that we should trust the clergy. But if you look at Church history, there are good and bad Popes, bishops and laity. St. Athanasius defended the Divinity of Christ against most of the hierarchy, including Pope Liberius, who was the first pope not to be canonized upon his death. St. Peter Damian fought against corrupt clergy. St. Catherine of Siena had to tell the pope to go back to Rome where he belonged.

St. John Eudes wrote (I’m paraphrasing here) that when God is so thoroughly angry because people won’t repent, He allows bad clergy to flourish. When people repent, come back to the Sacraments and lead good lives then He will get rid of the corrupt clergy and once more give His people good pastors.

And if I’m not mistaken, that’s also in Holy Scripture too (Jeremiah if I remember right).

Good night everyone! Signing off.
 
The Jewish people did keep track because every male child had to be presented for circumcision at 8 days, and women were able to enter the Temple or Synagogue only after a certain time. Women had to go through purification after menstruation as well. This was King David’s downfall. But thats another thread
 
The reason they did not keep track of or celebrate birthdays was it was ROMAN AND PAGAN. THEY were occupied
 
You might want to be specific about the celebration of Birthdays and what you mean.
Rosh Hashanah is celebrated on the day Adam was created, it is a celebration of the Birthday of mankind ,the Jewish New Year
 
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