Church Authority

[DonCochran]

“Does the church itself have any authority to make laws to guide it?” I think we can find the answer in a few passages of scripture. In Ephesians we are told that Christ is the head of his body, the church. Here a physical situation that we can understand is used to describe a spiritual one. Now we understand that the head controls the rest of the body. Without the head, the body cannot function. Even so the church must be guided by its head, Christ, in order to be actually his living body. As we have noted before, John spoke of Jesus as The Word of God.
In Ephesians 5 we have a likeness compared between the husband and wife and Christ and the church. The wife is to be in subjection to the husband in every thing even as the church is to Christ. Jesus is the Word. He delivered the Word to the church by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for our New Testament. When Paul delivered his parting advice to the elders at Ephesis in Acts 20 he said, “And now I commend you to God and the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all them which are sancitified.” He did not say that there would be another inspired man to take his place. The church basically claims that the Pope is another inspired man to take the place of Christ.
In his second writing Peter said that he was writing to remind them of what they needed to have eternal life because he would shortly have to “put off this my tabernacle” even as the Lord had shown him. At the very last he referred them also to the writings of Paul, and told them to grow in grace and knowledge of the the Lord.
In the gospel of John, Jesus made the statement that the scriptures cannot be broken. Jude spoke of the faith “once” (greek, once for all) delivered to the saints. I Hebrew 13:7-9 we find instructions to follow the word because Jesus is always the same.
To sum it up. The church is to be constantly guided by its Head (Jesus) who is the Word that does not change until he returns in person, not the Pope.

 

[Luke65]

The church basically claims that the Pope is another inspired man to take the place of Christ.

Umm, by that reasoning all the inspired authors of Scripture “took the place of God.” If Peter was infallible when he wrote his letters in the Bible, and he was, then he could infallibly define the doctrine of faith. And Peter and his successors, in union with the bishops, do just that, as we see in Scripture (Acts 15).

“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:26)

 

[CSJ]

Even most Protestant theologians agree that when Jesus gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, he was quoting from Isaiah 22. The fact that Christ changed Simon’s name to Peter (Cephas - meaning Rock) only amplifies the importance of this event.

God never made light of changing a man’s identity. When God declared His covenant with Abram, He changed Abram’s name to Abraham (father of many nations/multitude). Abraham became the “father” or “papa” of Israel. Likewise when Jacob refused to release the angel with whom he wrestled, the angel blessed him by changing his name to Israel. Some translations also state that Jacob had wrestled as a prince (Hebrew word *iysh *– pronounced eesh). This word is also defined as “steward”.

Keeping this in mind, an important typological comparison is that of Peter to Eliakim who was the chief steward or prime minister of King Hezekiah. Eliakim succeeded Shebna after the latter was deposed of his position. The keys to the house of David were placed upon his shoulder which was symbolic of his absolute authority as the king’s representative. He would also be as a “father” to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and the house of Judah.

Kings have ministers that look after the affairs of their kingdom. And where there are ministers, there will be a prime minister. This was Eliakim’s role and this was Peter’s role, and this is the role of the Pope (father).

St. Augustine once said that the New Testament is hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is revealed in the New. When we take the New Testament writings in the context of the Old Testament, we not only see how Christ fulfilled the Old Covenant, we gain a deeper understanding of the one Church that He established.

God Bless,

CSJ

 

[DavidFilmer]

In Ephesians we are told that Christ is the head of his body, the church.

That’s not ALL that Ephesians tells us. What it actually tells us (Eph 2:20) is that the Church is built on “the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus being the cornerstone.”

And that is exactly what you see in the Catholic Church. You are focusing on the cornerstone but you’re missing the rest of the foundation.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

“Does the church itself have any authority to make laws to guide it?” I think we can find the answer in a few passages of scripture. In Ephesians we are told that Christ is the head of his body, the church. Here a physical situation that we can understand is used to describe a spiritual one. Now we understand that the head controls the rest of the body. Without the head, the body cannot function. Even so the church must be guided by its head, Christ, in order to be actually his living body. As we have noted before, John spoke of Jesus as The Word of God.
In Ephesians 5 we have a likeness compared between the husband and wife and Christ and the church. The wife is to be in subjection to the husband in every thing even as the church is to Christ. Jesus is the Word. He delivered the Word to the church by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for our New Testament. When Paul delivered his parting advice to the elders at Ephesis in Acts 20 he said, “And now I commend you to God and the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all them which are sancitified.” He did not say that there would be another inspired man to take his place. The church basically claims that the Pope is another inspired man to take the place of Christ.
In his second writing Peter said that he was writing to remind them of what they needed to have eternal life because he would shortly have to “put off this my tabernacle” even as the Lord had shown him. At the very last he referred them also to the writings of Paul, and told them to grow in grace and knowledge of the the Lord.
In the gospel of John, Jesus made the statement that the scriptures cannot be broken. Jude spoke of the faith “once” (greek, once for all) delivered to the saints. I Hebrew 13:7-9 we find instructions to follow the word because Jesus is always the same.
To sum it up. The church is to be constantly guided by its Head (Jesus) who is the Word that does not change until he returns in person, not the Pope.

Study the Creed.

“One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church”. That says it all in a nutshell.

 

[DonCochran]

How does the creed hold any relevance in this case since my quotes are scriptural predating the creed.

 

[DonCochran]

That’s not ALL that Ephesians tells us. What it actually tells us (Eph 2:20) is that the Church is built on “the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus being the cornerstone.”

And that is exactly what you see in the Catholic Church. You are focusing on the cornerstone but you’re missing the rest of the foundation.

Is that in KJV as well or just nrsv-ce? Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Luke65]

Is that in KJV as well or just nrsv-ce? Just curious. Thanks.

Yes, that’s in KJV and all others. Here’s a bunch of translations online:

biblegateway.com/versions/

 

[JRKH]

“Does the church itself have any authority to make laws to guide it?” I think we can find the answer in a few passages of scripture. In Ephesians we are told that Christ is the head of his body, the church. Here a physical situation that we can understand is used to describe a spiritual one. Now we understand that the head controls the rest of the body. Without the head, the body cannot function. Even so the church must be guided by its head, Christ, in order to be actually his living body. As we have noted before, John spoke of Jesus as The Word of God.
In Ephesians 5 we have a likeness compared between the husband and wife and Christ and the church. The wife is to be in subjection to the husband in every thing even as the church is to Christ. Jesus is the Word. He delivered the Word to the church by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for our New Testament. When Paul delivered his parting advice to the elders at Ephesis in Acts 20 he said, “And now I commend you to God and the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all them which are sancitified.” He did not say that there would be another inspired man to take his place. The church basically claims that the Pope is another inspired man to take the place of Christ.
In his second writing Peter said that he was writing to remind them of what they needed to have eternal life because he would shortly have to “put off this my tabernacle” even as the Lord had shown him. At the very last he referred them also to the writings of Paul, and told them to grow in grace and knowledge of the the Lord.
In the gospel of John, Jesus made the statement that the scriptures cannot be broken. Jude spoke of the faith “once” (greek, once for all) delivered to the saints. I Hebrew 13:7-9 we find instructions to follow the word because Jesus is always the same.
** To sum it up. The church is to be constantly guided by its Head (Jesus) who is the Word that does not change until he returns in person, not the Pope**.

And so - Who do you think is “guiding” the Pope?
Do you think it could possibly be the same one who is “guiding” you as you struggle to understand scripture?

Peace
James

 

[DavidFilmer]

Is that in KJV as well or just nrsv-ce? Just curious. Thanks.

Actually, I typed it from memory, but I was raised as an Anglican, so I know the KJV better than the NAB and I hardly know the NRSV (the KJV is, after all, an Anglican translation). And it seems my memory is not too bad - I transposed “Jesus” and “Christ,” and I omitted the adjective “chief” but it is otherwise a direct KJV quote:

built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone (KJV)

This wording is not incompatible with any English translation that I am aware of.

You’re still missing the rest of the foundation of the Church.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

How does the creed hold any relevance in this case since my quotes are scriptural predating the creed.

The Creed was established before the Anglican church and it was created to help people from falling into heretical or heterodox teachings. Study the Creed and you will answer your own question.