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PJM
Guest
To what degree does your church have authority to command you?
What is the source of this authority?
What is the source of this authority?
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NoBama
Guest
When you say church are you saying the authority of the vatican? or the authority of your parish/ diocease?
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choose_to_love
Guest
Not to speak for PJM, but seeing as how this is posted in the Non-Catholic Religions forum, I expect not either.
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Aelred_Minor
Guest
Right. I assume the question is directed to non-Catholic Christians.
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
To reproach and reprove me on my practice or possible false beliefs. I may not like it but thats simply the way it has to be.
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PJM
Guest
The Pope and the vatican
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Elizium23
Guest
If you are addressing non-Orthodox non-Catholics, then you may wish to use the term “ecclesial community” rather than “church” because from a Catholic point of view, Protestants do not belong to a true Church but are rather organized into ecclesial communities which are imperfect members of the Body of Christ.
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PJM
Guest
Thank you
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jrtrent
Guest
I’ve never thought of it in terms of a church’s authority to “command” (and maybe I’m misunderstanding the intent of the question), but a person makes certain commitments when he joins a church: exemplifying a godly lifestyle in the community, exercising one’s spiritual gifts in diligent service, contributing financially to the work of the ministry, giving and receiving admonishment with meekness and in love, and faithfully participating in corporate worship. The authority for these expectations is scripture, and several Biblical references are provided in the short article linked to below.
gty.org/resources/distinctives/dd03/church-membership
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batman1973
Guest
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batman1973
Guest
The term Church is just fine for Prostestants, TYVM
Pat,
Do you see the role of the pope to “feed my sheep”, or to “command you”?
To answer your question, to be a member of the LCMS, I am held to confess the teachings of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, as found in the Christian Book of Concord, most notably the Augsburg Confession, and Small Catechism.
Christ’s institution of His Church.
Jon
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PJM
Guest
Hi JonNC,
A bit of both actually
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hn160
Guest
I would respectfully disagree with you from my point of view and from the Augsburg Confession:
Article VIII: What the Church Is.
1] Although the Church properly is the congregation of saints and true believers, nevertheless, since in this life many hypocrites and evil persons are mingled therewith, it is lawful to use Sacraments administered by evil men, according to the saying of Christ: The Scribes and 2] the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat, etc. Matt. 23:2. Both the Sacraments and Word are effectual by reason of the institution and commandment of Christ, notwithstanding they be administered by evil men.
3] They condemn the Donatists, and such like, who denied it to be lawful to use the ministry of evil men in the Church, and who thought the ministry of evil men to be unprofitable and of none effect.
*
Perhaps, Pat, and I’m just speculating here, were the popes of the Reformation era less interested in the “command you” and more interested in the “feed my sheep”, like a string of current popes have been, the Reformation may not have happened. But again, simple speculation.Hi JonNC,
A bit of both actually
Jon
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PJM
Guest
=JonNC;10265534]Perhaps, Pat, and I’m just speculating here, were the popes of the Reformation era less interested in the “command you” and more interested in the “feed my sheep”, like a string of current popes have been, the Reformation may not have happened. But again, simple speculation.
It is my prayer and God’s hope [and plan] that ALL Popes are more focused on “feeding the shep” than i COMMANDING THEM
But the “job” requires both as called for.
Pat
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gnosisofthomas
Guest
My church doesn’t recognize anyone’s authority to command anyone else… Our clergy is there to serve and to offer the sacraments to those who sincerely wish to receive them. There are no conditions put on that. Only God has real authority.
Now as a member of the clergy obviously I have to respect my bishop’s role and the hierarchy of the church. But even so, if he “commanded” me to do something that violated my conscience, I wouldn’t do it. I can’t see that ever being an issue though.
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PJM
Guest
So MY friend
Taking you at your word. God is in charge???
Please use this site for fast and easy look up:
http://www.biblestudytools.com/parallel-bible
IN the order given:
Mt. 10:1-8
Mt. 16:15-19
Mt. 18:18
Jn.14:16-17 completed in John 20:21-22
Jn. 17:15-19
Jn. 20;19-23
Mk. 14:16-17
Mt. 28: 18-20
Acts.20: 28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God [SINGULAR] which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.”
Romans 13: 2 “Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”
John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”
Ps.127:1 “Unless the LORD builds the house, those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the LORD watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain”
NOTE Please that each and everyone of the above specify ONLY the Apostles from whom by absolute necessity the Key’s are passed on to Christ Own Catholic Church.
Sincere thanks for your post.
May Our od continue to guide and bless you,
Pat/PJM
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CopticChristian
Guest
Gnostic one,
God has real authority, Jesus was God, and He built a Church that is His authority. Your Ecclessia Gnostica is not founded on Christ and the Apostles and clearly as you state has no authority over anyone and that is why you and this group preach another gospel.
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Chevalier_IX
Guest
As a practicing Catholic, interested in inter and intrafaith dialogue I find the position of GnosisofThomas and his stance on the authority in his church not too dissimilar from our own and I hope that he or she can correct me on this.
According to the way I’m reading his church’s catechism:
“[The] Gnostic Church is holy because her members aspire to a wholeness and integrity of life; she is also universal, or catholic, because she teaches and practices the faith of Gnosis which is not bound to time or to place… she [the Gnostic Church] is apostolic because her authority proceeds from the apostles and their successors.” 144
and in appendix B:
Q: Does the Gnostic world view uphold or rebel against worldly “establishments”?
It does neither, for its attitude is well stated in one of its scriptures: “Do not put your trust in the potentates, rulers, and the rebels of this world, for their authority passes away and comes to an end and their works are as naught.”
Knowing that they have an episcopate and clergy, I would imagine that they would act as moral and spiritual guides, but for the most part their own perceptions of authority rest in their experiential knowledge of their idea of God.
Granted, again, as churches who are separated from Rome there are bound to be some deficencies from our perspective but I think their alternate approach is something we might be able to learn and grow from in understanding and dialogue.
Also, CopticChristian, I’ve seen a few of your posts and am interested in learning why you can’t accept them as being brothers and sisters on account that they have different gospels? The Ethiopian Church and a number of other churches have different canons of apocrypha and yet that doesn’t stop or prevent them from being part of the Church of the Apostles, even if they don’t accept the primacy of the throne of Saint Peter.
According to the way I’m reading his church’s catechism:
“[The] Gnostic Church is holy because her members aspire to a wholeness and integrity of life; she is also universal, or catholic, because she teaches and practices the faith of Gnosis which is not bound to time or to place… she [the Gnostic Church] is apostolic because her authority proceeds from the apostles and their successors.” 144
and in appendix B:
Q: Does the Gnostic world view uphold or rebel against worldly “establishments”?
It does neither, for its attitude is well stated in one of its scriptures: “Do not put your trust in the potentates, rulers, and the rebels of this world, for their authority passes away and comes to an end and their works are as naught.”
Knowing that they have an episcopate and clergy, I would imagine that they would act as moral and spiritual guides, but for the most part their own perceptions of authority rest in their experiential knowledge of their idea of God.
Granted, again, as churches who are separated from Rome there are bound to be some deficencies from our perspective but I think their alternate approach is something we might be able to learn and grow from in understanding and dialogue.
Also, CopticChristian, I’ve seen a few of your posts and am interested in learning why you can’t accept them as being brothers and sisters on account that they have different gospels? The Ethiopian Church and a number of other churches have different canons of apocrypha and yet that doesn’t stop or prevent them from being part of the Church of the Apostles, even if they don’t accept the primacy of the throne of Saint Peter.
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