Church "authority"

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etnelic said:
The mass is nothing like the pre-Vatican 2 mass. Touching communion was never permitted because only the priest was consecrated. You’ll probably tell me it’s a small t issue but there are many other issues that contradict previous church teachings such as salvation for Jews, Muslims and Protestants which do not fall under the heading of Tradition so I suppose those could be explained away also. My concern is about the assertion of authority by those who answer to no one when they fail to obey their own predecessors.
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That is a practice/discipline not doctrine. Read history,the early church and early Christians received via hand. Yes…the priest consecrates it…and? Do you even know why the priests would have their backs against the congregation?
 
Nicea325 said:
The church has violated or broken the tradition of the Mass? How do you figure? On the contrary,many non-Catholic communities do not even pratice it as the ancient church always did.
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The Catholic community doesn’t practice it as the ancient church did either so why do they claim to be better?
 
Nicea325 said:
That is a practice/discipline not doctrine. Read history,the early church and early Christians received via hand. Yes…the priest consecrates it…and? Do you even know why the priests would have their backs against the congregation?
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Yes I know it could all be explained very thoroughly but the thread is about authority so I’ll recap my original thought. Authority should be backed up by obedience to authority as Peter and Paul explained in the scriptures I quoted before.
 
etnelic said:
Yes I know it could all be explained very thoroughly but the thread is about authority so I’ll recap my original thought. Authority should be backed up by obedience to authority as Peter and Paul explained in the scriptures I quoted before.
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Can you recap those scriptures? And give an example of what you mean…Authority should be backed up by obedience to authority as Peter and Paul explained in the scriptures I quoted before…your statement is confusing.
 
etnelic said:
Yes I know it could all be explained very thoroughly but the thread is about authority so I’ll recap my original thought. Authority should be backed up by obedience to authority as Peter and Paul explained in the scriptures I quoted before.
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You posted this…Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

So…how do you fulfill this passage?
 
pablope said:
Can you recap those scriptures? And give an example of what you mean…Authority should be backed up by obedience to authority as Peter and Paul explained in the scriptures I quoted before…your statement is confusing.
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1 Timothy 3:1 This is a statement that can be trusted: If anyone sets his heart on being a bishop, he desires something excellent. 2 A bishop must have a good reputation. He must have only one wife, be sober, use good judgment, be respectable, be hospitable, and be able to teach. 3 He must not drink excessively or be a violent person, but he must be gentle. He must not be quarrelsome or love money. 4 He must manage his own family well. His children should respectfully obey him. 5 (If a man doesn’t know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a new Christian, or he might become arrogant like the devil and be condemned. 7 People who are not Christians must speak well of him, or he might become the victim of disgraceful insults that the devil sets as traps for him.

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

1 Timothy 5:20 Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
 
Nicea325 said:
The church has violated or broken the tradition of the Mass? How do you figure? On the contrary,many non-Catholic communities do not even pratice it as the ancient church always did.
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etnelic said:
The Catholic community doesn’t practice it as the ancient church did either so why do they claim to be better?
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pablope said:
So…what is wrong with this?
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What are we talking about here? I’m at a loss.
 
pablope said:
You posted this…Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

So…how do you fulfill this passage?
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I obey the governing authorities. The Catholic Church does not.
 
etnelic said:
What are we talking about here? I’m at a loss.
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No great surprise there…
:cool:

Awrighty Etnelic, before Eric makes you go away, lets start at the beginning.
The subject is authority.
  1. Where in the Bible does it say the “Bible alone” is to be the authority?
  2. If the Holy Spirit guides you to understand the Bible, why do you have 15,000 denominations?
 
pablope said:
What, where and who are those governing authorities?
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They are the judicial system, lawmakers, the court system and the police.
And how does the CC not obey those governing authorities?
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They don’t have to obey. The Vatican has diplomatic immunity “A principle of International Law that provides foreign diplomats with protection from legal action in the country in which they work.” This may have served a good purpose at one time but it was never an apostolic teaching. As I quoted before; Peter did not teach this according to scripture. He did not say “Get yourselves diplomatic immunity. You may need it one day.” He said: 1 Peter 2:13 “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.”
 
JustaServant said:
No great surprise there…
:cool:

Awrighty Etnelic, before Eric makes you go away, lets start at the beginning.
The subject is authority.
  1. Where in the Bible does it say the “Bible alone” is to be the authority?
  2. If the Holy Spirit guides you to understand the Bible, why do you have 15,000 denominations?
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I never said the bible alone is to be the authority. I never said the HS alone guides me in my understanding. I’m only saying the authority of the church has to be obedient to scripture if they want to claim that they are direct descendants of the apostles.
 
the translaters can change our thought process–

did Jesus invent the word “church” ?

Church? Acts 2;47 praining God and havuing favor with all the people. and the LORD added to the chruch daily those who were being saved

the word
is “ekklesia”-assembly

mt 16;18 on this rock I will build my (assembly) {church} ?

When did the “Church” REALLY Begin?

youtu.be/hjd_83IYAHA

message entitled “Torah Portion Vayakhel/Pekudei”, from March 9, 2013. To view the full message, go to youtu.be/tdccOILfqmE.
 
1toolbox said:
the translaters can change our thought process–
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Absolutely! 👍 Preachers and mother-in-laws can too. This is why we are grateful for “T”-tradition and what the early church fathers preached.
did Jesus invent the word “church” ?
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Doubt it.
the word
is “ekklesia”-assembly
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👍
When did the “Church” REALLY Begin?
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If you mean “assembly” you will have to more specific of which assembly “church”. If you speak of the one Jesus came to perfect then that would be at Pentecost. But don’t take my word for it…the early church fathers explain this much better and in great detail.

Peace!!!
 
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