Church bombing in Egypt kills 21; imam condemns Pope's remarks [CWN]

[CWN_News]

Coptic Orthodox Christians clashed with police in Alexandria following a January 1 church bombing that left 21 dead. Egyptian religious and civil authorities decried the …

More…

 

[Black_Knight]

Egypt’s leading Muslim leader blasted Pope Benedict for calling for the protection of Christians. “I disagree with the Pope’s view, and I ask why did the Pope not call for the protection of Muslims when they were subjected to killings in Iraq?” said Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand imam of Al-Azhar, who accused the Pontiff of “unacceptable interference in Egypt’s affairs.”

Aw c’mon Mr. al-Tayeb…

1. The Pope is responding to attacks by Islamic extremists against Christians.
2. His Holiness has often decried religious violence wherever it occurs regardless of the religion of the victims.
3. Where is your own condemnation of this violence against Christians in your own country by people purporting to be members of your own flock?

Very few Muslims are violent extremists like perpetrators of this act so it’s not their fault, but this particular Imam is way outta line IMO.

 

[Louie1983]

Yeah I heard this.

What else did you expect?

Instead of focusing on the problem at hand he is deflecting the attention to the Pope’s response.

Smoke and mirrors.

 

[jakasaki]

Yeah I heard this.

What else did you expect?

**Instead of focusing on the problem at hand he is deflecting the attention to the Pope’s response. **
Smoke and mirrors.

That’s what they -muslims- do best…!!!

 

[dzheremi]

Al-Azhar is a part of the problem, so I’m not at all surprised by this loser Imam’s comments. Disgusted beyond belief, but not at all surprised. For such a small number of “extremists”, we sure are seeing an awful increasing in terrorist attacks against the indigenous Egyptians (the Copts) these days. I think that’s a convenient excuse, just like when the interior ministry immediately condemned this as the work of foreigners even though the actual investigation has pointed to home-grown radicals.

Now Islamist nutcases are threatening Coptic Churches all across Europe and Australia. One day we will wake up and find our own churches bombed. It is a foregone conclusion since no one is apparently willing to call a spade a spade. Instead everybody panders to these jackasses like this Al-Azhar bozo as though they have a legitimate point to make. I must’ve been asleep when the Copts mounted their massive military offensive against the Muslims of Iraq…com’on…get the hell out of here with that, Ahmed…

 

[Pax_in_Veritate]

Al-Azhar is a part of the problem, so I’m not at all surprised by this loser Imam’s comments. Disgusted beyond belief, but not at all surprised. For such a small number of “extremists”, we sure are seeing an awful increasing in terrorist attacks against the indigenous Egyptians (the Copts) these days. I think that’s a convenient excuse, just like when the interior ministry immediately condemned this as the work of foreigners even though the actual investigation has pointed to home-grown radicals.

Copts actually only make up a part of the indigenous population. Many indigenous converted to Islam and are not considered Copts, but not subjected to attacks.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Coptic Catholics were seriously threatened close to me in Vancouver, BC…they had been converts to Christianity and were writing their opinions opposing Islam on their own website.

Al Qaeda found out and threatened them with beheadings, and that they now have their names, photos and home addresses… Vancouver, BC.

The Space Needle was to be bombed on New Year’s, 2000, but the terrorist was apprehended at Blaine, at the border…there were Middle Eastern men taking alot of videos while on board our ferries…in the time surrounding 9/11…

They may attack and kill about 20 to 60 people per bombing…but the whole concept is most horrific to anyone finding out about it. Moderate Muslims are powerless against them. All they can do is have governments arrest and detain them.

 

[dzheremi]

Copts actually only make up a part of the indigenous population. Many indigenous converted to Islam and are not considered Copts, but not subjected to attacks.

There are Muslims in Egypt who consider themselves “Coptic Muslims”. The “Arab” identity of Egypt is actually pretty new, considering the age of the country. Regardless, it is only the Coptic Christians who have actually maintained a tangible link to the indigenous culture through their liturgies, rather than simply submitting everything that was once seen as uniquely Egyptian to the Arab-Islamic revisionist historical narrative, as certain currents of Muslim revisionism do (ex. I once read a dissertation by someone claiming to be an Egyptian academic that said there was no such thing as the Coptic language, and the current national language of Egypt is in fact the same as what was spoken prior to the Arab-Muslim conquests…yeah, and I’m the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem…)

 

[Sister_Amy]

I agree with the Pope, and the poster above (Louie) who mentioned that the Imam is deflecting attention away from the real issue.

 

[Reuben_J]

It would be interesting to know whether this Imam represents the mind of the majority of the Muslims in Egypt. A commentator I vaguely remember in Al Jazeera news, I think she is Professor Dr. Alia Boutros commented that the rise of radical Islam in Egypt is a factor that the government cannot do much to protect the Copts minority. It is like the government is afraid of the political upheaval if she does not pay heed to the demand of these extremists. Something like the Muslim Brotherhood has lied low for many years due to governmental control but somehow their cause has spread into a societal level.

If that assessment is correct,Egyptian Muslim like the Imam could be one of those who are biased towards the minority Copts. Among the ire of the Copts is that they have to obtain permission to build, renovate and repair a church while it is not necessary for Muslims to build a mosque. Of course that permission never comes and the Egyptian government is spineless to correct this anomaly.

It is quite a sad state of affair in that country especially for the Copts.

 

[dzheremi]

Another thing that my Coptic friends have pointed out that I was previously unaware of: In Egypt, it is apparently more often than not the case that in any populated center, any church that stands free will eventually be encircled by mosques. This is, they say, part of the subtle psychological pressure exerted on the Coptic Christians, because in this way when a bomb or another kind of attack happens directed at a church, it often also hits a mosque or hurts/kills a Muslim, too, who is sort of “collateral damage” in relation to the real target (the church and the Christians). Because of this, it gives the Muslim majority and the government a convenient sort of scapegoat: “Look, look! A Muslim/a mosque was hit, too! So this is an attack against all of Egypt, not against the Christians! Muslims and Christians are brothers in Egypt and anyone who says there is oppression is a traitor to foreign influence!” These kinds of statements are exactly what we see coming from Egypt’s government now, and are virtually identical to the types of statements we saw this time last year after the Christmas Eve shootings in Nag Hammadi.

I am definitely not prone to conspiracy theories, but it is hard to not see how this works once you are made aware of it. I think the Copts are absolutely right on this one, and it is another tool that the corrupt Egyptian state and naive and/or brainwashed Muslim majority uses to de-legitimize the Copts’ call for equal rights and protection from attempted genocide in their native land. I have heard the Muslim side of it and it basically consists of “The Copts are asking for something that we, THE MAJORITY, don’t even get! They want the state to be focused especially on their security, but all of Egypt is subject to terrorism and we don’t get extra security as Muslims.”

I say to that when was the last time Muslims faced the kinds of conditions Copts do, with specifically-targeted mass killings (El Kosheh 1998/2001, Nag Hammadi 2010, Alexandria 2011) and threats from radical Christian groups to blow up mosques around the world in response to troubles faced by converts who we think are denied their rights like Mohamed Hegazy? This fantasy (which is horrific reality for the Copts!) would be the parallel to the Islamists’ absolutely idiotic excuse to the extent that I have heard various loud morons claim it for themselves (so don’t tell me that I’m the one who’s making this about Islam!). It was also used to “justify” the horrible terrorism that occurred in Baghdad’s Sayidat Al-Najat Syrian Catholic Church only a few weeks ago…as though the Syrian Catholic Church of Iraq can make decisions for the Coptic Church of Egypt! (If you don’t know what I am talking about, look up the case of Wafa Constantine and read all sides of it…you will see how stupid these Islamic terrorists really are.)

 

[Sam_777]

Actually this is the problem with the Egyptian politicians in general, each now and then they come up and say this or that country is interfering with us, this or that country is interfering in Iraq, …etc.

And now they are saying that the Pope is interfering in Egypt!!!

They are saying those things and they forgot that they themselves are putting their nose in every Arabic matter under the language umbrella, they think if you are not an Arabic country then you should not criticise other Arabic countries.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I agree with the Pope, and the poster above (Louie) who mentioned that the Imam is deflecting attention away from the real issue.

I also agree.

 

[dzheremi]

Actually this is the problem with the Egyptian politicians in general, each now and then they come up and say this or that country is interfering with us, this or that country is interfering in Iraq, …etc.

And now they are saying that the Pope is interfering in Egypt!!!

They are saying those things and they forgot that they themselves are putting their nose in every Arabic matter under the language umbrella, they think if you are not an Arabic country then you should not criticise other Arabic countries.

Hmm…do I earn the right to criticize Egypt if I learn more Arabic? Maybe if I start studying the Egyptian dialect specifically?

Anyway, this complaint does not make sense to me. Pope Benedict did not say anything against Arabic culture specifically. He did not say not to smoke shisha or dance dabke or something silly like that. He commented on religious violence that is coming today most often from Islam and most often from the Arabic countries which are dominated by Islam to threaten the Christian minorities in the Middle East and the rest of the world. Since Christians also live in the world (and are native to the Middle East), and since the attacks are against Christians specifically, I am not sure why it is not okay for a Christian leader to speak out? Wouldn’t it be right for a Shia leader to speak out against the persecution they might face in a Sunni country, or a Sunni to speak out against the persecution they might face in a Shiite country? Or is it only not okay because Pope Benedict is from Rome and not Egypt? I guarantee that His Holiness Baba Shenouda III, the Coptic Pope, has said similar and even more direct words! “The blood of the Copts is not cheap”…

 

[Sam_777]

Hmm…do I earn the right to criticize Egypt if I learn more Arabic? Maybe if I start studying the Egyptian dialect specifically?

Sure you would , but you should be granted one of the Arabic nationalities first …

Anyway, this complaint does not make sense to me. Pope Benedict did not say anything against Arabic culture specifically.

I agree with you, but that Imam tried to divert the attention from being a terrorist attack against the Christian Churches to political issue between the Vatican and Egypt…

He did not say not to smoke shisha or dance dabke or something silly like that.

I see you know some Arabic…

Or is it only not okay because Pope Benedict is from Rome and not Egypt?

Yes, discrimination is everywhere in every Arabic/Islamic country.

I guarantee that His Holiness Baba Shenouda III, the Coptic Pope, has said similar and even more direct words! “The blood of the Copts is not cheap”…

I think that is not enough, reference to the Arabic articles I have read on this topic I found no harsh or criticism to the Egyptian government!!!, which was their duties to protect the Christian places the same way they do to the Islamic ones, to be honest with you, his words were so soft with the government.

 

[dzheremi]

I think that is not enough, reference to the Arabic articles I have read on this topic I found no harsh or criticism to the Egyptian government!!!, which was their duties to protect the Christian places the same way they do to the Islamic ones, to be honest with you, his words were so soft with the government.

Ah…I see I should have explained a bit more about the background of those words. HH Pope Shenouda III said that in a speech in 2010 urging the government to do its job in prosecuting the killers of the Nag Hamadi massacre (this same time last year) and protecting the Copts from future attacks. Since the government has not done this, the Copts who are protesting in the streets now after the Alexandria bombing have taken up his words as a rallying cry, along with other slogans against the government’s ineffectiveness. Some protesters even prevented a clean-up crew from washing the blood off of the church’s walls (it reaches up to the third floor of the building), telling them that they must leave it where it is to honor the martyrs.

In this context, the recollection of the Pope’s statement about the price of Coptic blood definitely carries anti-government undertones, because so many Copts are shouting it in anger towards the government over all these attacks with no justice or protection. If the government did its job and granted them protection and equal rights before the law, nobody would be protesting to begin with.

 

[Jehoshua]

From my observations it seems to me that the greater whole of the egyptian muslim cohort is under some irrational delusion that the copts are out to get them. You hear all sorts of lunatic absolutely baseless ideas that the copts are hiding weapons in churches, that they’re holding the wives of priests hostage for converting to islam.

More disturbingly this view seems to be the predominant one, i looked up the reports coming from egypt about the attacks and every single response when i looked was basically clamouring that it was somehow the copts fault! or some even that they deserve it. Its absolute craziness and to me it shatters the illusion that islamic extremism is a fringe phenomenon, in fact much of so called “moderate” islam could be classified as extremists from a christian societal view.

 

[Sam_777]

that they’re holding the wives of priests hostage for converting to islam.

The Coptic Pope should come up and either deny that or release Camelia Shehata (if she really converted to Islam), because that subject by itself is letting all Muslims in all forums I read to blame all Christians not just the Coptic ones …

 

[JRRTFAN]

Aw c’mon Mr. al-Tayeb…

1. The Pope is responding to attacks by Islamic extremists against Christians.
2. His Holiness has often decried religious violence wherever it occurs regardless of the religion of the victims.
3. Where is your own condemnation of this violence against Christians in your own country by people purporting to be members of your own flock?

Very few Muslims are violent extremists like perpetrators of this act so it’s not their fault, but this particular Imam is way outta line IMO.

I’m going to disagree with you, in a fraternal way. You hear nothing from the vast number of Muslims. I will never forget 9/11/01 when CNN took its cameras to Palestine and as the towers crumbled the Muslim populace was out in the street DANCING. firing AK-47s in the air and uulating franticly. If this happened in the civilized world the authorities would arrest and prosecute the perpetrators. Over there they issue a strong statement and go back to sleep. Listen to the Imam, his message speaks volumes. Have you heard any more from Turkey where the peaceful Muslim killed Bishop Padovese last June? Stabbing him and cutting his head nearly off? Nope.

 

[Sam_777]

I will never forget 9/11/01 when CNN took its cameras to Palestine and as the towers crumbled the Muslim populace was out in the street DANCING. firing AK-47s in the air and uulating franticly.

Sadly not only in Palestine, their happiness can be felt in all other Islamic countries, in the streets, in meetings, forums, etc.

There is no solution for that when the dogma itself teaches the violence…