Church bombing in Egypt kills 21; imam condemns Pope's remarks [CWN]

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Without any proof, the Egyptians also destroyed several hundreds of thousands of pork produce raised by the Christians, for many that was their livelihood…based on the swine flu epidemic that was supposed to sweep the world…

There is great need to make sure we have full information…but I also read about Christian Egyptian girls being kidnapped…the women must stay indoors…

I truly believe the Muslims who are violent and dance at the death and destruction of innocent people are diabolic.

I read Revelations the other day and it said essentially that the good will go on being good and the evil ones will go on being evil until the end of the world…

It is hard to face such things and my world changed after 9/11…the only ‘good’ it has done has made me aware of how many people suffer in the world because of the misuse of religion.

Many young people are turning away from God in this country because of the face of 'God’s religion they are seeing in this…which is truly the face of evil.
 
Well, the internet has made the world very small now.

The Crusades was initiated by pleas of help for 400 years by the Christians living in the Holy Land and the pilgrims being killed by newly converted Islamic Seljuk Turks.

Now pleas for help come and go instantly around the world…

Like now in Minnesota one Muslim family had the Christmas Spirit man removed from visiting Head Start, a custom he started 4 years ago…

Wonder how far things will go now.
 
Sam_777 said:
The Coptic Pope should come up and either deny that or release Camelia Shehata (if she really converted to Islam), because that subject by itself is letting all Muslims in all forums I read to blame all Christians not just the Coptic ones :(…
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funny thing is that the Coptic Church has already denied and called the claim absolutely baseless in an official capacity and yet without any evidence the muslims in egypt continue to use their irrational belief as if it was a justification for their attacks on the copts.

In fact the women only remain in the monastery today because if they were to go out they would immediately be “rescued” abducted being the proper word and forced to convert to islam due to the false belief that they converted to islam previously.
 
Jehoshua said:
In fact the women only remain in the monastery today because if they were to go out they would immediately be “rescued” abducted being the proper word and forced to convert to islam due to the false belief that they converted to islam previously.
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I totally disagree with you on that one, NO ONE can force her to convert to Islam, if Camelia Shehata would say I never converted to Islam or I don’t want to convert to Islam, then no Muslim can touch her.

Why doesn’t the Coptic Church allow a TV interview with her to clarify that…

😦 I’m really sad about that woman and how the Coptic Church and Muslims handling her issue, if she wants to be a Muslim then let it be, if she doesn’t then let her come on the TV and tell Muslims I do not want your religion.
 
What about her safety, Sam? She has been the rallying cry of the Al Qaeda for the much of the destruction and the killing already. Whether she admits it or not, she is a pawn in this conflict that can be dispensed with. If she denies it, all the more it will incense her detractors and if she admits it, it will only justify what they have done. I wish that she could come out in the open but maybe in reality it is not that simple for her.
 
Reuben_J said:
What about her safety, Sam? She has been the rallying cry of the Al Qaeda for the much of the destruction and the killing already. Whether she admits it or not, she is a pawn in this conflict that can be dispensed with. If she denies it, all the more it will incense her detractors and if she admits it, it will only justify what they have done. I wish that she could come out in the open but maybe in reality it is not that simple for her.
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Let her come out in the open at a secular TV station with a Priest from the Coptic Church and an Imam from Alazhar (as witnesses), and let her close that subject forever, I think after that no one would dare to accuse her of false claims.
 
Sam_777 said:
Let her come out in the open at a secular TV station with a Priest from the Coptic Church and an Imam from Alazhar (as witnesses), and let her close that subject forever, I think after that no one would dare to accuse her of false claims.
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Probably that would be the best course of action; I can see the wisdom in that. However I am not very familiar about the mentality of the extremists and I am only worried of her personal safety. If by going into the open it would protect her from vigilante action that may cause her harm and danger, then by all means. Don’t you think the local Coptic Church may anticipate this possibility and this may be the possible reason why they don’t take this action? I mean it makes no sense if the presence problem originates from this woman, then why not address the root cause once and for all?
 
Reuben_J said:
Don’t you think the local Coptic Church may anticipate this possibility and this may be the possible reason why they don’t take this action?
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Egypt is not Afghanistan, so her personal safety should be protected by the Egyptian Government, and if they cannot do that, then their president should resign and let someone else who can protect Christians.
I mean it makes no sense if the presence problem originates from this woman, then why not address the root cause once and for all?
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I see no root cause, the woman is simply converted to Islam or not, if she did, then the Coptic Church should let her free (there is nothing in the Christian faith that says otherwise), and if she didn’t then that will shut-up all the Islamic propagandas.
 
Sam_777 said:
Egypt is not Afghanistan, so her personal safety should be protected by the Egyptian Government, and if they cannot do that, then their president should resign and let someone else who can protect Christians.
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That’s what I should think too but I have to take your word for it. 🙂
Sam_777 said:
I see no root cause, the woman is simply converted to Islam or not, if she did, then the Coptic Church should let her free (there is nothing in the Christian faith that says otherwise), and if she didn’t then that will shut-up all the Islamic propagandas.
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The impression I have is that there is the fear element in the action taken by the Coptic Church in not taking the action you proposed because that should be the most obvious thing to do in the situation if what you say about Egypt is true.

I have remarked about the cause of Islamic extremism has spread into a societal level, meaning it is not just the extremists who have this agenda but mainstream Islamic society. If that is true then the potential danger is not just from the extremists but they would have many volunteers on the ground who would gladly take up the dirty job to do anything for the cause. In this case just anything what it takes to achieve the end.

But OTOH if your assessment is more realistic, then I am also questioning why the local Coptic Church did not do what they have to do - the obvious - go into the open as per your suggestion.
 
Are the Copts restricted in building more churches? Do they pay the poll tax?

I don’t see anyone wearing green like they had to in Spain.

But are they restricted in being allowed to develop their faith? Because if there are restrictions on them, then they could be still in some form of dhimmitude.
 
Sam_777 said:
I totally disagree with you on that one, NO ONE can force her to convert to Islam, if Camelia Shehata would say I never converted to Islam or I don’t want to convert to Islam, then no Muslim can touch her.

Why doesn’t the Coptic Church allow a TV interview with her to clarify that…

😦 I’m really sad about that woman and how the Coptic Church and Muslims handling her issue, if she wants to be a Muslim then let it be, if she doesn’t then let her come on the TV and tell Muslims I do not want your religion.
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I think the Coptic Church has handled it as well as can be expected. The people who are clamoring for Christian blood over this FALSE made up issue can’t be reasoned with anyway, so what word from the Church would satisfy them? Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s as simple as you’ve claimed it would be.

But, my dear friend, I have a gift for you. I think I’ve found exactly the interview that you are looking for here: Camelia Shehata confirms her Christian faith كاميليا شحاتة تؤكد مسيحيتها

Of course the Muslims will say that this is all propaganda made by the Church, but they also say all kinds of ridiculous things about Coptic churches having “dungeons” where they keep many converts from Christianity to Islam as prisoners (really! My Coptic friends have pointed this out on Islamist websites, where Muslims say these things!), so I think it is safe to disregard their ramblings. Really, the discourse about this situation has gotten out of hand, since al-Qaeda and the groups inspired by them have used it to declare war on Christians (again) in every place in the world, and now churches in Australia, France, and the USA are also threatened following the January 1 bombing in Egypt. All of this over something that never happened in the first place. It really blows my mind. Of course, if you believe the popular myth instead of the reality, you might still think that Camelia is somehow a Muslim just because there are more Youtube videos that say she is (by Muslims that wish it were true!) than ones that say she isn’t. So in a way I agree that the Coptic Church should come out and say that this is a false story, but at this point I think too many people believe it (or like to have the excuse to hurt Christians), and any word from the Pope would just make those people more angry, because they would automatically assume that he is lying. He should have said something earlier, but also it is hard to stop Muslims from believing these kinds of things because rumors and lies spread faster than the truth ever can.

There is a very famous Russian joke that applies to this situation. It goes like this: The Hare runs like crazy through a forest and meets the Wolf. The Wolf asks: “What’s the matter? Why such haste?” The hare tells him: “The camels there are caught and castrated!” The Wolf says: “But you’re not a camel! What do you care?” The hare replies: “After you are caught and castrated, you try and prove to them that you’re not a camel!” (The moral of the story is that it is impossible to convince someone of the truth when they have already decided to believe a lie instead.)
 
lies beget more lies and fanatics of course are trapped in a web of self delusions which only gets more bizarre as time goes on. When someone in a web of such deluded ideology is exposed to an alternate view it is simply rejected outright as a lie, or as mistaken. People in delusion simply can not stand truth.

Thus I think it is perfectly responsible for the coptic church in this situation to continue to provide sanctuary for the people involved because as has been previously stated it is extremely unlikely that the extremists will accept anything said contrary to their false opinion. In fact it is much more likely that they’ll say she was forcibly converted back to christianity and thus she should be “liberated” to return to Islam. Thats despite anything or anyone says to the contrary.

And of course i think we must remember the situation of copts in Egypt where you have the deluded ideas rampant amongst the muslim public that they’re out with weapons in churches trying to conquer the muslims (funny i don;t see any copts bombing mosques at the present time) and of course the fact that copts have historically had to get presidential approval to build churches or even renovate existing ones. However this has now been devolved merely to the level of governor:rolleyes:
 
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