Church closings...a sign of catholic failure?

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It seems that New Jersey is slashing its churches. Does this signal a failure of catholicism? If catholics would do like the mormons, and give 10 percent, would these churches be saved?

Church closings / Sad but inevitable

Published: Monday, April 07, 2008, The Press of Atlantic City

Bishop Joseph A. Galante, the head of the Camden Diocese, made his long-awaited announcement about parish closings last week. The 124 parishes in the diocese, which serves six counties in southern New Jersey, will be cut to 66 through mergers and closings.

Like the previously announced closings and mergers of Catholic schools in the diocese, the elimination of 58 individual Catholic churches is sure to generate anger and bitterness among some parishioners. That’s understandable - to a point.

The closing of any house of worship - of any religious denomination - is always a loss for a community, and not just for the highly religious.

Churches, synagogues, mosques often fill a need that goes well beyond the daily Masses, services and prayers. Houses of worship are also social centers, program sites, oases of peace and serenity and safety. And when it is not just any parish that is closing, when it is your parish that’s closing, the sense of loss is real and palpable.

As a secular newspaper, it is not our job to tell Catholics how to feel about this disruption of their spiritual lives, nor to pass judgment on Galante’s decisions. But from the outside looking in, the bishop seems to have taken great care to develop a rational, reasonable plan for the closings.

And it does seem as if something had to be done.

The Camden Diocese serves an estimated 450,000 Catholics. Fifty years ago, 74 percent of Catholics could be counted on to attend at least one Mass a week. Today, it is fewer than 24 percent.

The number of priests is also dwindling. In 2005, the diocese had 171 priests. But retirements are taking their toll, and the number of new priests does not come close to keeping up. By 2015, the diocese expects to have only 85 priests - nowhere near enough to staff 124 parishes.

Catholics, of course, are not alone. Many, if not all religious denominations, struggle to draw young people and new members into the pews.

But there will be some interesting benefits to the mergers. The folding of 1,236 parishioners from St. Peter’s in Pleasantville, which will close, into St. Bernadette’s in Northfield will change the complexion of that church - literally. Most of St. Peter’s congregants are Hispanic or Asian.

“It’s a beautiful thing,” St. Bernadette’s parishioner Rosemary O’Dowd said. “We welcome them. Demographics change and we’re here, and that’s all that’s important.”

Change is never easy, Galante noted. Parishioners angry at the closing of their churches may complain that the diocese is focusing too much on the bottom line. Others may note, with some justification, that if the Catholic Church had not been forced to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars to settle sexual-abuse claims nationwide, the church would be in far better shape financially.

But in the end, the local diocese had little choice but to respond to changing demographics and the toll modern life has taken on Catholicism and other religions.
 
In the Northeast, there are economic factors as well as the culture as a whole up there becoming increasingly secular.

In contrast, here in the Southeast the Church is vibrant and growing. 🤷
 
First of all, there are at least 5 or 6 churches in my town and others as well. Do we really need this many?
There will never everbe a Catholic failure, no matter how hard you want that to happen. There are more and more people coming into the Catholic faith more than ever before.
They are coming to see the truth in Christ and his Catholic church.
So, no matter how much you want this to really, really happen, it won’t…trust me.
 
Every sixth person on the planet is a Roman Catholic. There are 1.5 **billion ** Catholics and growing.
Mass is not dwindling either, in fact, according to the Catholic Register, attendance is higher than ever today.
Just this past Sunday, there were 75 priests ordained in one state.
The people who actually take these pollls, go to Masses that are not the full ones, like in the middle of the day etc… Remember there are 3 Masses on just Sunday, 2-3 on Saturday, and one every dayof the week.
 
Christ’s Church will always exist. We’re building like crazy down here. And I don’t think it’s just because of immigration from south of the border. (A lot of immigrants from central and south america have already been converted OUT of the Church by evangelism before they even get here…that’s a REAL failure for Catholics)
 
There seems to be a “weeding out process” but once the weeding out has been done, the “tree” will be stronger than ever before. 🙂
 
Except there are lots of people who want to see this happen. Therefore, I don’t see where this thread is going…just another non-Catholic stirring up trouble if you ask me…sigh…
 
It seems that New Jersey is slashing its churches. Does this signal a failure of catholicism? If catholics would do like the mormons, and give 10 percent, would these churches be saved?
Does the closing of the FLDS compound out west signal the failure of mormonism? Didn’t they tithe enough?
 
First of all, there are at least 5 or 6 churches in my town and others as well. Do we really need this many?
There will never everbe a Catholic failure, no matter how hard you want that to happen. There are more and more people coming into the Catholic faith more than ever before.
They are coming to see the truth in Christ and his Catholic church.
So, no matter how much you want this to really, really happen, it won’t…trust me.
Well said. Our community is large enough to be 3 parishes, but the entire community is under one parish. It’s been this way for at least 40 years, and works well for us. I’m sure it will work well for the parishes in New Jersey.
 
It seems that New Jersey is slashing its churches. Does this signal a failure of catholicism? If catholics would do like the mormons, and give 10 percent, would these churches be saved?
Interesting.

I think the disappearance of Catholicism will probably take a couple of centuries. What you’re seeing now is the disappearance of anglophone Catholics in the U.S. and Canada, which will probably be complete in about 50 years. That’s not really comparable.

religions.pewforum.org/portraits

If you look at the data here you can draw some really interesting conclusions. Catholicism is disappearing three times as fast as the next highest denomination. (10% of Catholics have left Catholicism, just in the last generation).

Catholics seem to have a slightly higher birthrate than the mean, but they’re also quite a bit less educated and wealthy too.

Bear in mind that there are French and Spanish speaking Catholics in North America who look upon religion as an inherent aspect of their ethnic identities.

As the children of immigrants grow smarter and richer (to put it bluntly) they might end up leaving too.

European Catholicism will probably be allowed to survive as a small, minority religion even under an Islamic Europe (which is projected to happen in 50 years).

weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/685ozxcq.asp

So you’ll see the Vatican paying the jizyah tax for a century, before finally fading away. Or, perhaps it will hang on, like the Christians in the Arab world do, as a tiny minority which segregates itself along religious lines. Muslims are far more tolerant of Christians than vice-versa.
 
. There are more and more people coming into the Catholic faith more than ever before.
They are coming to see the truth in Christ and his Catholic church.
So, no matter how much you want this to really, really happen, it won’t…trust me.
Here is an interesting website. It has statistics from the different diocese from around the country. The last figures showing for the Camden diocese is 2006, but you can see there is a steady **increase **in the number of Catholics in that diocese.
catholic-hierarchy.org/country/dus2.html
 
One reason why churches are closing in Northeast Ohio is that people are moving away … I heard on the radio that around 5,000 people left Cleveland last year. Which means that of those 5,000 people, the Catholics will be most likely increasing the numbers of people in churches to the South and West … where the jobs are.

~~ the phoenix
 
Muslims are far more tolerant of Christians than vice-versa.
Yes, we see that in the news every day. :rotfl:

They are so tolerant that they have a special tax we have to pay to keep them from killing us. How nice of them. :rolleyes:

Paul
 
Interesting.

I think the disappearance of Catholicism will probably take a couple of centuries. What you’re seeing now is the disappearance of anglophone Catholics in the U.S. and Canada, which will probably be complete in about 50 years. That’s not really comparable.

religions.pewforum.org/portraits

If you look at the data here you can draw some really interesting conclusions. Catholicism is disappearing three times as fast as the next highest denomination. (10% of Catholics have left Catholicism, just in the last generation).

Catholics seem to have a slightly higher birthrate than the mean, but they’re also quite a bit less educated and wealthy too.

Bear in mind that there are French and Spanish speaking Catholics in North America who look upon religion as an inherent aspect of their ethnic identities.

As the children of immigrants grow smarter and richer (to put it bluntly) they might end up leaving too.

European Catholicism will probably be allowed to survive as a small, minority religion even under an Islamic Europe (which is projected to happen in 50 years).

weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/685ozxcq.asp

So you’ll see the Vatican paying the jizyah tax for a century, before finally fading away. Or, perhaps it will hang on, like the Christians in the Arab world do, as a tiny minority which segregates itself along religious lines. Muslims are far more tolerant of Christians than vice-versa.
The Catholic Church will never fail, Jesus told us so, And as Catholics we believe that. Soooooooo with all due respect I not only find your above post ( and others you post) very comical. I’m serious, I laugh when I read what you post. I find myself scratching my head wondering what is it you hope to gain by posting such tripe.🤷
 
Yes, we see that in the news every day. :rotfl:

They are so tolerant that they have a special tax we have to pay to keep them from killing us. How nice of them. :rolleyes:

Paul
Yeah, one only needs to look at news of Christians in Islamic countries.

lamar should check out the methods that Muslim extremists use to recruit…it’s all about tolerance…brainwashing…lamar is on his way.
 
Yes, we see that in the news every day. :rotfl:

They are so tolerant that they have a special tax we have to pay to keep them from killing us. How nice of them. :rolleyes:

Paul
Actually, everyone’s taxed. Muslims pay a higher tax than non-Muslims. (It’s 2.5% for Muslims, and 2% for non). Christians and Jews in Muslim countries get some of this money back for upkeep on their buildings, and they are usually allowed to set up their own courts and things like this.

Hopefully Tom or Amy will pop in if I’ve got this wrong or have left something out.

I’m not aware of anyone being murdered in any officially Muslim nation simply for being a non-Muslim. I’m sure you’ll post examples if you have them.
 
Catholic church closings are often the result of shifting and locally shrinking populations, as well as the disintegration and absorbtion of the ethnic groups which started them.

Here in the City of Pittsburgh, the population has gone down by more than 50% over the past 50 years. Poles, Slovaks, Slovenes have all passed into death, and their descendents are no longer attached to the ethnic parishes particularly when those descendents have often married those of different ethnic stock.

It would be highly suprising if there weren’t numerous church closings.
 
The Catholic Church will never fail, Jesus told us so, And as Catholics we believe that. Soooooooo with all due respect I not only find your above post ( and others you post) very comical. I’m serious, I laugh when I read what you post. I find myself scratching my head wondering what is it you hope to gain by posting such tripe.🤷
🤷 is right. I’m just discussing trends and statistics. Who knows what’ll happen next year? Maybe the whole world will convert to the Catholic church.

I find it amusing that Catholics have such blinders on. It rivals Mormons. You guys have a very keen internal censor which precludes even an honest discussion of certain topics. That’s something for another thread though.
 
One reason why churches are closing in Northeast Ohio is that people are moving away … I heard on the radio that around 5,000 people left Cleveland last year. Which means that of those 5,000 people, the Catholics will be most likely increasing the numbers of people in churches to the South and West … where the jobs are.

~~ the phoenix
Also, many of the churches that are closing no longer have parishioners who live in the neighbourhood. The churches are located in the inner-city. The parishioners have moved to the outer suburbs long ago. A few have continued to drive into the city for Mass on Sunday, but not enough to keep the parish going. The demographics changed long ago. The people living in the neighbourhoods where these churches are located are not Catholic.
 
Interesting.

I think the disappearance of Catholicism will probably take a couple of centuries. What you’re seeing now is the disappearance of anglophone Catholics in the U.S. and Canada, which will probably be complete in about 50 years. That’s not really comparable.

religions.pewforum.org/portraits

If you look at the data here you can draw some really interesting conclusions. Catholicism is disappearing three times as fast as the next highest denomination. (10% of Catholics have left Catholicism, just in the last generation).

Catholics seem to have a slightly higher birthrate than the mean, but they’re also quite a bit less educated and wealthy too.

Bear in mind that there are French and Spanish speaking Catholics in North America who look upon religion as an inherent aspect of their ethnic identities.

As the children of immigrants grow smarter and richer (to put it bluntly) they might end up leaving too.

European Catholicism will probably be allowed to survive as a small, minority religion even under an Islamic Europe (which is projected to happen in 50 years).

weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/685ozxcq.asp

So you’ll see the Vatican paying the jizyah tax for a century, before finally fading away. Or, perhaps it will hang on, like the Christians in the Arab world do, as a tiny minority which segregates itself along religious lines. Muslims are far more tolerant of Christians than vice-versa.
Am I missing something. I visited the first website, and I’m not seeing any statistics showing the rise or fall in membership
 
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