Church collections for large Catholic families

[Rob_s_Wife]

Couples can have as many children as they can afford without using artificial birth control.
Actually, they can have as many or as few children as God wills.

There’s NFP, and there’s abstinence.
NFP IS abstinence. * Periodic* abstinence, but still abstinence.

Why should those who are prudent in these matters help support those who could easily avoid a situation in which they have more children than they can afford, but choose not to?
**hmmm, you’re right. Why should anyone who has is easier support those who accept God’s will in a situation that is more difficult when they could just as easily tell God (and their spouse) “No, thanks.” **

easily? the only sure way is abstinence. and there is nothing easy about it.

It depends on the couple. Some find using NFP very simple and fairly easy. Some find it very difficult and stressful. Others are anywhere in between.

 

[AlegreFe]

Have I been scared a few times when I got pregnant again? Yes. Scared to tell my husband, scared to tell my parents. Scared of how we were going to afford a bigger vehicle. Scared of what it would do to our finances. Scared of being pregnant again and trying to care for the other children. I was scared beyond sared when I found out we were having twins, which would push us up into the 12 and 15 passenger size vans. Scared of health problems and a c-section and a second c-section.

Thank goodness I chose to follow the Catholic Church, in its wisdom, because my fears turned out to be mostly groundless. God always provides. And even when some fears materialized-- twins did cut into our income, and I had to cancel my business line–well, we’re here, we’re fine, and the blessings far, FAR outweigh the fears.

Wow, congrats on all your wonderful gifts that God gave you, your children! It seems to spite the fear that you’ve had, you’ve actually been very brave. Why? Because you trusted in Jesus Christ by following His Church. Thank God for people like you.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

I guess I was I was saying is that before we had all the high tech NFP, we had the rythm method that is NOT accurate. The pill was invented far longer ago than these other NFP methods. The church said and still says…
No Artificial Birth Control, you are in danger of going to Hell if you use it.
So, essentially, Have a big family or go to HELL.
Thus, we have families that are too big to afford proper clothes, shelter, food, healthcare etc.
I am not proposing we mandate some organized collection. however, I do not pass off the Church’s responsibilty to any person in need, especially when these people may have been feared into something. eg. big families.

I was hungry, yet you gave me no food…naked, but you didn’t clothe me…

This is about a lot more than NFP. People who refuse to have big families because there is no help for poor people who can’t afford food, clothing, or the other necessities of life can be assured that they won’t be headed there alone.

 

[MaryD7]

It depends on the couple. Some find using NFP very simple and fairly easy. Some find it very difficult and stressful. Others are anywhere in between.

Thank you for this, Rob’s Wife. We are finding it difficult and stressful. There is no need for me to go into the details but I’ve just about had it. It is comforting to know that there are others out there that don’t find it as easy as it seems to be for most people on this forum.

 

[ktp]

Thank you for this, Rob’s Wife. We are finding it difficult and stressful. There is no need for me to go into the details but I’ve just about had it. It is comforting to know that there are others out there that don’t find it as easy as it seems to be for most people on this forum.

I agree. Some of our children are the result of taking chances, but not all. As I mentioned in another post, I got pregnant… with twins no less!.. on a day that NFP, my regular to the hour cycle, and all the signs said was impossible.

I know plenty of people who do nothing, including no NFP, and simply don’t get pregnant for years on end. I do wonder how many of the people who are so “successful” with NFP just weren’t going to get pregnant, anyway. I’m not knocking anyone, and not knocking NFP (I’m grateful things didn’t go according to my plan), just wondering.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

It seems to me that we were not commanded to follow God unless…

Have I been scared a few times when I got pregnant again? Yes. Scared to tell my husband, scared to tell my parents. Scared of how we were going to afford a bigger vehicle. Scared of what it would do to our finances. Scared of being pregnant again and trying to care for the other children. I was scared beyond sared when I found out we were having twins, which would push us up into the 12 and 15 passenger size vans. Scared of health problems and a c-section and a second c-section.

Thank goodness I chose to follow the Catholic Church, in its wisdom, because my fears turned out to be mostly groundless. God always provides. And even when some fears materialized-- twins did cut into our income, and I had to cancel my business line–well, we’re here, we’re fine, and the blessings far, FAR outweigh the fears.

Wonderful post! Great explanation!

 

[AlegreFe]

Paganus:

Another way to view it is that God insists on no artificial birth control and that God will provide for your needs.

Sorry, that statement seems rather foolish.

Sorry, but where is your faith?

marybee:

Are you expecting God to come down on earth and hand people food and money? Of course not, that is why we have poor collections and tithing etc.

When I give to the poor it’s usually for the homeless or for the poor in third world countries, but I do it through Catholic organizations who specialize in such charities.

If a Catholic family knew that monetary collections existed in every Sunday collection, then where would their faith be? It would seem that they just go ahead with the marital act and not worry about finances because they know that their financial help will come in the next Sunday collection. It seems as if faith in God to provide for them would be lacking.

marybee:

We are God’s hands and we have to help each other. God provides for us through other people.

I agree with you here. We can certainly be good neighbors in whatever help they might need. I would rather volunteer to help a family in my neighborhood such as give rides or make a dish of something for them for dinner or something like that than just throw some money in a basket on Sunday.

So that, in a way, would take away such opportunities for us to be neighborly and charitable in that manner.

marybee:

If God just provides for us why are their so many starving children in the world? Does God not care about them? Of course he does, he has given us the tools to help them and we dont live up to that expectation, that is why people are without food, clothing, shelter, and medical care.
We must help each other and share our gifts.

We certainly do have to help each other but I can think of better ways than just to throw some money in the basket. I still think that having total faith in God to provide for you if you meet your Sacramental marital obligations, would be better than to rely on a Sunday collection to provide for your family. It just seems cold… I don’t know how to describe it.

There are such charitable organizations (Catholic and non) that provide for large families. Then there are those families who volunteer in such places and also give financially to such places. But these places provide clothes, baby furniture, diapers, possibly some food that is not parishable and things like that. I don’t know if they would actually provide cash for large families. The government provides that in “welfare” don’t they, and food stamps too? We pay taxes don’t we, so in a way we are providing at least in that manner.

All in all, Trusting in Jesus Christ and having faith in God to provide for your family is the most important thing.
Don’t worry about tomorrow, trust in Jesus and live for today… pray, pray, pray.

25 "Therefore I tell you, do not worry
about your life, what you will eat
(or drink), or about your body, what
you will wear. Is not life more than
food and the body more than clothing?
…
31 So do not worry and say, ‘What are
we to eat?’ or ‘What are we to drink?’
or ‘What are we to wear?’
…
33 But seek first the kingdom (of God)
and his righteousness, and all these
things will be given you besides.
34 Do not worry about tomorrow;
tomorrow will take care of itself.
Sufficient for a day is its own evil.
Mt 6:25, 31, 33-34

 

[AlegreFe]

Well aside from the field trips i also mentioned dentist visits! Is this a luxury that only the “rich” get privileges to? Sorry, Dont talk the talk if you cant walk the walk! Go tell everyone to have big families (not you) and tell everyone to use NFP, which is undoubtedly less reliable than other forms of bc. yes we can all point to stats that say otherwise but all you have to do is look at families that use it. Yes i know they are more “open”, or they arent “using” it properly, but the plain old fat truth is their is many disadvantages of NFP, one being if you mess up once during a fertile time, you are pregnant.

Easy there… You seem to have a lot of anger and bitterness in your life. What you sow now is what you’ll get later when harvest time comes. I certainly don’t know you, but all I get is what you post here so I just go by that. I will pray for you.

marybee:

And yes that child is a gift from God almighty, but needs food clothing and shelter nonetheless!

See my post above with the quote from Scripture, Mt 6:25, 31, 33-34.

I truly believe that if a child is given to a family by God it is for a reason. I know of a family who already had 3 children and were using NFP to put off having another child for another 3 years or so. But things happen. They had another child before the 3 years was up, but the couple didn’t fret. On the contrary, they accepted God’s gift happily. And God provided for them! About a year later the dad in that family was found to have cancer. Since the first 3 children were older, they played in their play room and the littlest one turned out to be daddy’s “little buddy” and she’s a very good “little buddy” for her daddy. The daddy would be on the couch not feeling good from chemo and radiation treatments but his youngest little girl kept his spirits up. Certainly his wife kept high spirits and prayed for her husband but the little girl arrived as a gift from God for that reason and I’m sure there will be plenty of other reasons as the years go by.

The dad is now in remission and they are getting by financially.
Their faith is tremendous in God.
That “dad” is my Catholic brother (I also have a protestant brother). My youngest niece is surely loved as my other two nieces and nephew in that family. God love them.

 

[AlegreFe]

…
The church said and still says…
No Artificial Birth Control, you are in danger of going to Hell if you use it.
So, essentially, Have a big family or go to HELL.

You clearly don’t understand what the Church teaches.

There can be a family with a small number of children but that doesn’t mean they’re using artificial bc. And that doesn’t mean that they’re completely abstaining either. It could mean that God doesn’t want to give a particular couple children at a certain time in their marriage. That does not mean that they’re going to hell. And the Church certainly does not say that.

I don’t have a big family and I doubt I’m going to hell. But then again my circumstances are different (will not explain my circumstances here for sake of thread; I’ve explained my circumstances in other threads/posts, so feel free to search if you wish).

marybee:

Thus, we have families that are too big to afford proper clothes, shelter, food, healthcare etc.
I am not proposing we mandate some organized collection. however, I do not pass off the Church’s responsibilty to any person in need, especially when these people may have been feared into something. eg. big families.

Helping a family “in need” is different than providing a monetary collection for “large” Catholic families.

My husband is from a family of 10 children and they certainly were not “in need” and the father was not “rich” either. They got by in life. Most of them needed braces but only the two worst ones got them. They were not “in need” of clothes because they went to Catholic Charities that provided for clothes and they wore hand-me-downs too. They didn’t have the best of meals but they ate. God provided for them. A family does not have to be in “riches” in order to be considered a family. They don’t have to dress in designer clothes to get to heaven. They don’t have to be in extracurricular activities to earn points in heaven either. God provided for my husband’s family.

I have a feeling you got by just fine. You’re still alive and you have a family of your own now. So don’t you think you should be grateful? Instead of being angry and worrying so much, be grateful for God’s gifts in your life and who knows what could happen.
Always remember to thank God for what you have, don’t fret for what you don’t have, and He might just give you a little more when you least expect it.

 

[AlegreFe]

The people who would have liked using something convenient like the pill were held back by their religious convictions and the fear of God and the fear of Hell.

You are in my prayers. I pray that Jesus Christ will comfort you so that the anger and fear in your life will no longer be. Rest your heart in the Heart of Jesus Christ.

 

[anna1978]

OP: I think the Church should help ANYONE in need, not just people with large families. I also think that you have to be able to look after your children, or you should be abstinent. My dh and I know more children at the moment would not be a good idea so we abstain, a lot. We choose to! Why should the Church or society ‘pay’ for my family, just because my dh doesn’t make a lot of money? Having a large family if you can afford it, I’m sure is very rewarding. But you shouldn’t expect the Church or society to ‘pay’ for them, that’s your own responsibility.

Anna x

 

[whatevergirl]

Well, the RCC does not instruct that one must have a large family in order to be considered in ‘good standing’ as a faithful Catholic. It does tell one to be open to life in his/her marriage.

That being said, I think it would be wonderful if parishes had a separate collection for large families, and only used it to help them. But, one should not rely on that when thinking about starting a large family. LOL One must be responsible in thinking their family planning through. For example, if my husband and I want to have 6 kids, but we cannot afford it on one income, and sending our babies to daycare would not be an option, then we would need to rethink having 6 kids, at that moment in time. But, if we already had 6, 7, 8 kids, and my husband say was struggling at work, or we were suffering a financial hardship, then it would be wonderful to ask the Church for help. Father Pakwa from EWTN’s Threshold of Hope specifies that couples should pray about the number of children that they would like to have, and also prepare for that number. Throwing caution to the wind, and letting others support your family, wouldn’t be the most responsible way to think. Just my 2 cents.

Hope that makes sense. I do think that having an ‘extra’ collection would be nice for large families struggling financially…or for anyone really within the parish that has hit hard times.

 

[maria29]

I would rather see a collection for any family who suddenly has money issues versus a requirement just that the family be large. It doesn’t seem fair that just because a family with 2 kids is struggling that the Church wouldn’t have them because they don’t have 10 kids.

 

[aurora77]

I would rather see a collection for any family who suddenly has money issues versus a requirement just that the family be large. It doesn’t seem fair that just because a family with 2 kids is struggling that the Church wouldn’t have them because they don’t have 10 kids.

Exactly. We are called to help those in need, but large families shouldn’t get a leg up in their time of need simply b/c they are large. Such an attitude says that parents of a large family are incapable of providing for their children while at the same time letting those of us who can’t have children know that we mean less to the Church than the abundantly fertile.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

Ok, I didn’t read all of the responses, although here is my thought.

I would rather the Church &/or Catholic Charities re-think how much they charge for adoption! There are many couples that face infertility or other medical problems, although they can not afford 20K+ for adoption costs.

Just a side note on that, I know I am probably sooooo way off topic, I was adopted in 1971 through Catholic Charities, my parents paid $150 for my adoption, all to the attorney and Court, $0 to CC or the Church. In 2007 CC in my area would not even consider us until we paid 15K+ for home studies, background checks, etc. OK, done with my vent, sorry, this is my second post and I know I probably just broke the rules