By no means, for the Church is on a journey and if you look at each and every CouncilI just wanted to share an observation:
I’m a history lover. I love anything that has to do with history. It’s a great passion of mine.
I love reading about how the old Church was so confident of itself. When the first Christians were persecuted, their drive for truth and to spread the message of the Risen Christ. No persecution stopped them. We triumphed.
When Christianity became the dominant religion of Europe, the Church was still confident in itself. It felt like it had a mission to convert those who did not believe, filled with confidence that it had the truth. When threats besieged Europe, like Islam in Spain, or against the Byzantines, or in central Europe with the Turks - Christians rallied as Christians to fight against the invaders. There were no apologies for Christianity, no shame for moral standards. The Church (all of it - Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox) proudly saw itself as the bastion of Western culture and civilization.
But today, I see a Church that no longer believes in itself. It’s disrespected, trashed, insulted - and it remains silent. It goes about with these silly interreligious dialogues.
Now I’m not saying that we should go about invading and converting the heathens, but it just seems the pride of being a Christian has fallen away. Has anyone perceived this?
I would say that the Council of Trent in particularl demonstrated evidence of confidence, promoting moral truth, rising up against the heathens as you say, refusing to be insulted.The general council of Vienne was summoned by pope Clement V with the bull Regnans in caelis, which he had written on 12 August 1308 at Poitiers (the Roman pontiff had remained in France from the year of his election, thus beginning the period of the church’s history known as the Avignon captivity). The pope was subject to forceful pressure from the European states, particularly from France. Philip IV of France, the king who had opposed Boniface VIII so bitterly, had so much power over Clement V that he seems to have been able to change the whole state of ecclesiastical affairs at will. The council of Vienne is seen as an outstanding example of this political pressure, although the pope energetically defended the liberty of the church as far as circumstances allowed and he himself had the power. The council had been summoned for 1 October 1310 at Vienne. This city did not belong to the kingdom of France, though Philip IV in 1310 had occupied nearby Lyons by force. There were no general summonses and only 231 ecclesiastics were invited; the others however could employ a procurator .
Forgiving the misspelling, but is that really a serious answer?Satananism.
Forgiving the misspelling, but is that really a serious answer?
“Satanism” is not an organized practice or institution.
I needn’t ask you again for an example, as history will not provide you with many, if any. It sounds as if you are simply being contrary for its sake.
And the gates of hades shall not prevail. You do not think that the Church is not always under attack by the forces of evil? You do not think it is active? It is working as designed in contradistinction to the Church? As far as it being an institution, there is leadership, there are followers, all with a common goal. This is as serious as it gets.It’s been over 2,000 years. Name any institution in history that’s still active and working as it was designed for as long as the Church.
Next time you witness a baptismOh my Jesus: Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell and lead all souls into heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy
My answer was seriousReconfirming Baptismal Vows by Godparents & Godchildren
At the appropriate time, the Priest invites the congregation to reconfirm their baptismal vows.
PRIEST: Do you renounce Satan, and all his works, and all his worship, and all his angels, and all his pride? (3x)
ALL: We do. (3x)
PRIEST: Have you renounced Satan? (3x)
ALL: We have. (3x)
PRIEST: Do you unite yourselves to Christ? (3x)
ALL: We do. (3x)
PRIEST: Have you united yourselves to Christ? (3x)
ALL: We have. (3x)
PRIEST: Do you believe in Him?
ALL: We believe in Him as King and as God.
No, there aren’t. Not earthly ones, anyway.As far as it being an institution, there is leadership, there are followers, all with a common goal.
Im not sure what to think. I think the church historically has helped their fellow Christians a bit better. Now a days there are Christians being persecuted and all we can do is social work and cry towards peace. Instead I think the Church should send in defenders of historic churchs and communities.I just wanted to share an observation:
I’m a history lover. I love anything that has to do with history. It’s a great passion of mine.
I love reading about how the old Church was so confident of itself. When the first Christians were persecuted, their drive for truth and to spread the message of the Risen Christ. No persecution stopped them. We triumphed.
When Christianity became the dominant religion of Europe, the Church was still confident in itself. It felt like it had a mission to convert those who did not believe, filled with confidence that it had the truth. When threats besieged Europe, like Islam in Spain, or against the Byzantines, or in central Europe with the Turks - Christians rallied as Christians to fight against the invaders. There were no apologies for Christianity, no shame for moral standards. The Church (all of it - Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox) proudly saw itself as the bastion of Western culture and civilization.
But today, I see a Church that no longer believes in itself. It’s disrespected, trashed, insulted - and it remains silent. It goes about with these silly interreligious dialogues.
Now I’m not saying that we should go about invading and converting the heathens, but it just seems the pride of being a Christian has fallen away. Has anyone perceived this?
There are various and sundry “ministries” by many and sundry Protestant groups.Im not sure what to think. I think the church historically has helped their fellow Christians a bit better. Now a days there are Christians being persecuted and all we can do is social work and cry towards peace. Instead I think the Church should send in defenders of historic churchs and communities.
Im not talking about just charities though. Im talking about actually physically defending the ancient communities and Churchs that are being persecuted.There are various and sundry “ministries” by many and sundry Protestant groups.
Johathan Bernis, Jewish Voice Inernational, has a group in Ethiopia he is helping. The problem I have with him and all of the other ministeries is that is not just Charity. It is Charity and let me convert you. The other problem is that by admission the Ethiopian Jews Jonathan is using for raising funds are “converts” not part of the diaspora.
When you look up Charity and The Catholic Church you find only one ministry, as far as I know and this is it…
catholiccharitiesusa.org/
Western intervention, whether in the Crusades or in the modern Middle East, can be shown to have made things worse.Im not talking about just charities though. Im talking about actually physically defending the ancient communities and Churchs that are being persecuted.