Church Exorcist and Pro Life Priest Warns Against Harry Potter

[Lost_Wanderer]

You’re wasting your time with this guy. Concepts such as plot devices and themes are lost on people like him who eagerly throw logic, reason, and higher ed knowledge with the twisted glee akin to that of the fanatical, monsters-in-friar’s clothing that infested our Catholic clergy during Spain’s 300-year enslavement of my country.

 

[Apryl]

Are you serious?

The characters are witches.
The school teaches witchcraft.
The teachers are witches.
Spells and incantations are the tools used.

And do you believe that one who reads these books could then perform these spells and incantations? I’m just askin’

 

[Apryl]

LOL! I am not here to pacify you. Do the Narnaia and Tolkein movies revolve around witches being taught by withces in witch school?

OHhhhhh… so Harry Potter became evil when the author chose to use a school.

… wait… does this mean that SCHOOL is evil?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Believe me, he does that. It’s the only thing he’s good at given his clear aversion to solid reasoning. Watch out, he might start labeling your criticisms as personal attacks and name-calling. On the other hand, it’s ironic how he does that when he’s the one calling people hoots and making ad homs.

 

[Portrait]

… and what makes HP worse than other things of the entertainment world? What about Edgar Allan Poe… tv shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Charmed… music with strange lyrics?

Please explain what makes Harry Potter so much worse?

Dear Apryl,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your response above.

Edgar Allan Poe and the deplorable television programmes that you mention are hardly appropriate fare for those who are earnestly pursuing holiness and seeking to be “pure in heart”. Such debased and soul polluting material can only present a hindrance to the life of faith and should therefore be avoided by the Catholic faithful.

The problem with the Potter series of books is that the tales are permeated with actual references to occult practices. What surely makes these novels worse than the aforementioned is the fact that these practices are intermingled with pure fantasy, so that children may be led to believe that such evil practices are likewise fantasy. That I consider to be most unacceptable as a Catholic.

Furthermore, the issue is not merely that the books might arouse a child’s interest in the occultic sub-culture, extremely worrisome though that is, but rather that the novels will desensitize children to the evil of the occult, which nowadays is a very real and present danger.

Many of those who appraise the Potter books negatively have no problem with the fantasy genre as such (though some do), but it would be naive to close our minds to the fact that it can be misused as vehicle for harmful messages - messages, I hasten to add, that can have eternal consequences.

Trust that will be of some help.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Peace

 

[JHow]

…The problem with the Potter series of books is that the tales are permeated with actual references to occult practices. …

Please give examples of occultic practices found in Harry Potter books.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

There, I’ve done my part. Hopefully this will be of help to someone who is not so sure about Harry Potter. For all you die-hard fans, I know it’s hopeless. It’s scary how much of a hold these stories have over some people so that they won’t even consider that there might be something wrong with them. If only people would hold to the dogma of the Church as rigidly.

My prayer has been that this HP mania will (in time) blow over. A little over a decade seems long enough, doesn’t it? And when it does blow over…I won’t be quick to add the books to my shelves of classic literature!

 Ms. Rowling,

Please stay away from my fine collection of Shakespeare, Chesterton, Dickens, Austen, Twain, Lewis, & Tolkien.
I’m afraid to say you have no place among them, m’dear!

Cordially,
Therese S.

 

[Apryl]

Yeah… Smatter of fact, the seventh book (and seventh and eighth movie) don’t even get into the school or show any of the teachers… Wellk, some FORMER teachers, but they ain’t teaching.

Whooo… what a fantastical movie that was.

… Oh… let us resume our discussion, shall we

 

[Apryl]

So you are saying that in Harry Potter: The students are not witches. They do not attend a witch school. They are not learning spells and incantations being taught by other witches?

You are a hoot!

I was wondering how someone could get 11,000 posts… and then you go and do this.

Man, talking about shooting ducks in a box!

But no one said that the characters were not witches.

Someone gave the example of George Orwell’s 1984… was that the story of animals and how they relate to each other? In case you haven’t read it yourself, it is not.

It seems that many (if not all) of those who are so anti-Potter have not bothered to read it for themselves, and now they are running aroung with torches and pictch forks in an effort to rally the troops in favor of what someone else said. Hmm… I haven’t read all of Fr. Eutener’s writings and don’t plan to, but I don’t think he’s as anti-Potter as many of the posters here. He has an opinion, but some of the foundation is not strong. Sadly, we have people here who won’t consider anything else, and well,

‘there are kid witches and teacher witches and they are at a witch school’… Go as Fr. Eutener if THAT is the problem he sees.

In the mean time, ‘I used to be amazed, now I’m just amused’

 

[curlycool89]

About four years.

That would be before the last book, which means that you didn’t read it. Without reading the last book, you can’t possibly understand the series because the last book is the culmination of the series. Everything has to be understood with respect the final book.

Well, I am not very familiar with the Narnia movies or Tolkein, so I cannot comment much. From what I perceive, these other films do not use witches students, witch schools, and witch teachers as a major premise in their stories.

Gandalf is a wizard. He’s a main character, he’s also brought back to life after being killed (he’s also a “minor angel” in Tolkien’s world, but he uses magic).

As far as I know, Lewis never explained his magic (the latest movie couldn’t decide whether it was bad or not). He also has an alternate-universe Jesus who’s a lion. There’s also centaurs who interpret the starts (“astrology”), and they’re part of the good guys. But Lewis’ books are also known as great Christian books.

This point is interesting, because Eutener seems to have a tendency to lump Potter and “vampire books” in the same breath. I can’t defend the Twilight series - I have never read them. They are quite possibly horrible trash, but it is not fair to tag Rowling with someone else’s work.

There’s only 1 thing you need to know about Twilight: It helps teenage girls make the all important choice between bestiality and necrophilia
The answer it gives is “both”

To his point about proceeding from Potter to other works, the children of Potter could just as well grow up to read Tolkien, MacDonald, Chesterton, Dostoevskii, Gogol, etc.

Me, me, me! I read Tolkien because I read HP.

And a lot of people die.

Is Lord of the Rings about student witches who go to witch school being taught witchcraft by witch teachers?

Saying HP is about people going to school and learning witchcraft is like saying Boy Meets World was a show about a kid who goes through many years of school and seemingly only having 1 teacher. The school provided the basic plot layer, but the show was actually about a boy growing up (all the way from elementary to college!) while sharing times with his brother, friends, and (sometimes/eventually permanent) girlfriend (/wife). School probably figured into the plot of every show, but nobody remembers the school part because it wasn’t the point.

Please give examples of occultic practices found in Harry Potter books.

Spoiler: There are none!

 

[JHow]

My prayer has been that this HP mania will (in time) blow over. A little over a decade seems long enough, doesn’t it? And when it does blow over…I won’t be quick to add the books to my shelves of classic literature!

 Ms. Rowling,

Please stay away from my fine collection of Shakespeare, Chesterton, Dickens, Austen, Twain, Lewis, & Tolkien.
I’m afraid to say you have no place among them, m’dear!

Cordially,
Therese S.

What! You read that racist Twain?

And that bourgeois Austen?

That spiritualist Dickens?

And that nutter who clearly approved of magic Chesterton? What do you call “The Man Who Was Thursday: A Nightmare” ?

And you know the others are chock full of magic and witchcraft…

 

[Portrait]

Please give examples of occultic practices found in Harry Potter books.

Dear JHow,

Cordial greetings and good to see you on the boards yet again.

Although it is embellished as all sweetness and light, the Potter novels are replete with rituals, spells and brews. Now whilst this is fantasy fiction, there really are wicked people who practice witchcraft in the real world and who cast spells and perform rituals. Rowling writes as if these powers can somehow be channeled into good and herein lies the great danger of her books. Rituals, spells and brews are used by witches in the real world and they are effective owing to the power of evil spirits. That being the case they can never result in any good. Portraying these innately evil practices as if they can be harnessed for good is incontrovertibly a dangerous lie. Remember also that these books are primarily intended for the young who are still in their formative years.

Rowling further confuses the issue by depicting witchcraft not as a moral issue, but as an issue of heredity; in Rowling’s world the ability to practice witchcraft is something that is inherited. However, in reality you do not need to possess a particular bloodline in order to make witchcraft work. All that is required is to tap into evil spirits, turn over your will and forsake Jesus Christ for the world of the occult.

Thus we have two falsehoods presented to children who read these unwholesome books: first, that their status as a witch is written into their genes; and second, if they are the “lucky” ones, they can use their powers for good. Now clearly these are harmful lies to teach, even in a work of fiction, because the actual reality is so different and so dangerous. This is yet another instance of Rowling’s downright irresponsibility as a children’s author.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Apryl]

Although it is embellished as all sweetness and light, the Potter novels are replete with rituals, spells and brews. Now whilst this is fantasy fiction, there really are wicked people who practice witchcraft in the real world and who cast spells and perform rituals.

I guess that’s it: I don’t have any exposure to the occult, so I wouldn’t know that those are the spells and what-nots you’ve spoken of.

But that’s like them showing you six of the digits of a person’s phone number. You need that seventh digit to call them, right?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Why does she not measure up if you don’t mind my asking?

What! You read that racist Twain?

And that bourgeois Austen?

That spiritualist Dickens?

And that nutter who clearly approved of magic Chesterton? What do you call “The Man Who Was Thursday: A Nightmare” ?

All falsehoods. You’re going to have to do better than that!

And you know the others are chock full of magic and witchcraft…

Yes, full of the only kind of magic there should be: BAD magic.

 

[Portrait]

I guess that’s it: I don’t have any exposure to the occult, so I wouldn’t know that those are the spells and what-nots you’ve spoken of.

But that’s like them showing you six of the digits of a person’s phone number. You need that seventh digit to call them, right?

Dear Apryl,

We may be one digit short, but those other six digits are not far from the real thing. Some of us would say that is just too close for comfort.

Be that as it may, the* Catechism of the Catholic Church *states unequivocally, “All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion…the Church for her part warns the faithful against it” (para. 2117).

This is strong language in our Catechism, the same language employed to condemn lust, fornication and abortion. Catholics cannot in good conscience take such a warning lightly. If Harry Potter were using lust, fornication or abortion to save his friends at Hogwarts, would we still consider these tales acceptable children’s fare?

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

If you are going to “defend” Harry Potter. It should be defended by Scripture and Holy tradition–not by the supposed acceptance of other fictional works.

Nice try, but you can’t wriggle out of double standards so easily.

The good guys (Caspian blowing Susan’s horn, Glenstorm using astrology) do use magic in Narnia. If you don’t disapprove approve of Narnia for that reason, then it follows that you shouldn’t disapprove of Harry Potter for its characters’ use of an entirely fictional, anti-materialist, and spiritually profound magical system.

No. That’s like saying that Narnia teaches about beings not created by God, and therefore, must prove a belief in a different God because the book is about the adventures of talking animals, satyrs, minotaurs, centaurs, etc.

I’ll give you another clear example. Animal Farm - a book that has talking animals who have formed a society. Now, the point is not about the animals, that is solely the device used to write against the Russian Revolution, which IS the point.

Harry Potter isn’t about witch craft. It is about good triumphing over evil, even when it means sacrifice. If you read the books, you would understand. And even if you haven’t, you can still see the difference between a plot device and a theme.

Thank you Mumbles. These are excellent analogies. I hope anyone claiming that Harry Potter is “about” witchcraft" will understand your point.

A critique of Rowling’s worldview, however, is not the same thing as a critique of her literature. If we are to judge literature as fit or unfit from the standpoint of the author’s worldview, we are into murky waters indeed.

Indeed, and actually the books assume and utilize very traditional symbolism. Harry Potter stands solidly within the (quite Christian) English literary tradition.

And for what it’s worth, Rowling herself is actually a Christian (Presbyterian/Church of Scotland).

My prayer has been that this HP mania will (in time) blow over. A little over a decade seems long enough, doesn’t it? And when it does blow over…I won’t be quick to add the books to my shelves of classic literature!

 Ms. Rowling,

Please stay away from my fine collection of Shakespeare, Chesterton, Dickens, Austen, Twain, Lewis, & Tolkien.
I’m afraid to say you have no place among them, m’dear!

Cordially,
Therese S.

Hmmm… that’s what people in previous centuries used to say about some of those very people on your list (Shakespeare, Dickens).

But anyway, I can’t pretend that Harry Potter is right up there with Shakespeare. But it’s certainly here to stay as much as The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and The Chronicles of Narnia are - and deservedly so.

And Portrait: you guys really should take to heart what we’ve tried to make clear: that there’s no resemblance between any real-world occult practices and Harry Potter magic, most of which is highly fantastical and is done with wands made out of fictional materials like unicorn hairs and phoenix feathers…

And even when they get down to “brewing,” the ingredients, recipes, and effects are so obviously made-up and fantastical that no resemblance is even reasonably possible. For instance, one ingredient is a bezoar, a special stone found in a goat’s stomach that can instantly cure any poison.

As you can see, when “brewing” (I’ve singled out this one example of yours because it is representative of the rarer, non-wand/effect related fields of Harry Potter “magic”) there’s literally no connection to invocational/occult stuff at all. It’s what a chemistry class would be like if the crazy fantasy ingredients of Harry Potter really existed.

That’s it.

 

[JHow]

…All falsehoods. You’re going to have to do better than that!..

All jokes, actually. But they contain a bit of truth.

Many people complain about the use of the “n-word” in Twain.

Dickens did have the “ghosts” of Christmas past, present, etc. in his fantasy.

Austen, well, okay, she manages to avoid the supernatural, but if she isn’t bourgeois, then what is?

As for a Man Called Thursday (I love that book), it is subtitled “A Nightmare”, which people often forget, and it is all about the limits of reason and fantasy.

 

[JHow]

… Rituals, spells and brews are used by witches in the real world and they are effective owing to the power of evil spirits. …

Greetings Portrait. Hope you are keeping well.

Which rituals in Harry Potter are from the world of real wicca? (There are almost no rituals depicted in HP, by the way)

Which spells? (oculus reparo? riddukulus?)

Which potions? (Felix felicis?) (Do “real” witches brew potions? Do they drink them?)

The answer here really, however, is that what you call “witches in the real world” are drawing from the same LITERARY antecedents as Potter-world. I agree that there are those in the real world who claim to contact spirits and ask them to do their bidding, but that is not what is happening in HP. I agree that the dance-in-woods-nude crowd (don’t they itch?) certainly try to do this stuff (spells, potions, brews), but I am in no way convinced it is as effective as you seem to think. And I would argue that they are doing this stuff because that is what folklore says witches do - not because it really works.

Cheers,

JHow

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Telling? No. Try “so obvious, it’s better to have assumed they didn’t in the first place.”

There’s only 1 thing you need to know about Twilight: It helps teenage girls make the all important choice between bestiality and necrophilia
The answer it gives is “both”

hisses Twilight!!! Ugh!! Not that I don’t mind the concept of making vampires the ‘good guys’ but they are sooooooooooooo overrated and sooooooooooo bishified (translated: been turned to bishounen, a.k.a. anime-esque pretty boys). I even saw the manga-style graphic novel version of the book in our local bookstore. Honestly, just seeing it there traumatized me! DX Dealing with Vampire Knight fan girls was bad enough!

If you ask me, wizards and other spellcasting archetypes in fantasy deserve more of that treatment. I mean, no offense to the great and wise mentor-figures of the fictional arcane arts (Merlin, Gandalf, Dumbledore) but does every single wizard have to be some old guy with a long, white beard? Does every single witch have to be portrayed as some wrinkly, wart-faced, old hag? I say to you all, NAY!! DX

As a matter of fact, I’ve been collecting some bits of Harry Potter fanart recently and if there ever would be an official graphic novel version, I want the style to be like… THIS!!! 8D

View attachment 9456

heaves Glad I got that off my chest…

Erm… anyways, I’m gonna be back on topic in just a bit. I just I hope made my point.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Spoiler: There are none!

Indeed there aren’t. It really irks me to see people still blindly adhering to their ignorance of creative fantasy. Deriving your mythology from pagan myth and folklore wouldn’t make you a pagan any more than fictionalizing the Vatican as an uber-awesome, fully loaded secret society of demon/vampire hunters would make you a Catholic.

Yes, full of the only kind of magic there should be: BAD magic.

buzzer Sorry. Wrong answer. I’m afraid you still have much to learn about fiction m’dear.

Both the universes of Tolkien and Lewis deploy a good brand of magic. In LotR, Gandalf and the elves are just some of the entities capable of using magic. In the scene where Galadriel is puzzled by how their powers were deemed with the word, it just goes to show how the word “magic” itself is arbitrary without a context. Honestly, before we should even start defining what constitutes “good” or “bad” magic, shouldn’t we first define that which we mean by the word itself?

I mean that alone brings all sorts of contradictory images in people’s minds. You and the likes of Portrait here see magic as 100% occult, regardless of context. Sorry but that’s just single-minded compared to the many types of “magic” I’ve seen out there.

For instance, you have stage magic. This type of ‘magic’ isn’t in line with the Church’s definition because it’s nothing more than masterful sleight-o-hand tricks, cunning devices, and smoke-n-mirrors. Yet still, do people call it “magic”? Yes, they do!

“Look! He’s pulling a rabbit outta his hat! ”
“Where’d those flowers come from?”
“How’d that card get there?”
“How does he do that!?.”
“It’s magic!”

Another example is magic in video/computer games. In a game I play (it’s called Ragnarok Online) magic is seen as a powerful force, whose expert wielders can command the elements, wipe out incoming mobs, and deal damage points reaching up to five-digits!! @w@ (starts drooling and fantasizing about his own Level 150 Warlock) On the underside however, it’s just a conglomeration of digital graphics acting in accordance to certain computer programs which in turn respond to (name removed by moderator)ut via electrical signals sent by an interface device such as a keyboard and mouse. (hears thunking sound Uh-oh… alt-tabs Oh noes! I’m being attacked! Run away!!! DX flees to next map Whew… >_<;;; checks life bar Great… down to only 7 HP. T_T)

As you can see, the same can apply to magic in a fantasy fiction setting which is really nothing more than a product of one’s imagination. It does not fall under the Church’s definition of “magic” as some occult power that draws itself from demons and bad spirits. Lot’s of things have been labeled “magic” but don’t fit the Church’s description.