Church Exorcist and Pro Life Priest Warns Against Harry Potter

[Mumbles140]

Witchcraft is never neutral.

So is Narnia bad because its use of magic? What about the other instances of magic used by C.S. Lewis - if you want specifics other than Narnia, then let’s use That Hideous Strength as a reference. And what about the wonderful Catholic author J.R.R. Tolkien? Don’t the elves use magic, as does Gandalf. He chants, has a staff, and uses potions/powders. How does that use of magic differ from Harry Potter? These books are praised for their Catholic/Christian themes, and yet Harry Potter is condemned to Hell by those who have not read it.

I rememeber seeing an essay on LOTR documenting the 3 main male characters, Gandalf, Frodo, and Aragorn, as representations of Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King, respectively. But if they use magic/witch craft, then that means those books are Satanic, sacreligious, and should be burned this very instant! Not praised and loved by Catholics, Christians, and others around the world as they have done for the past 55 years! Because accepting those while condemning Harry Potter would be hypocritical, not to mention a major case of judging a book by its cover (in the most literal sense).

 

[Mickey]

So is Narnia bad because its use of magic? What about the other instances of magic used by C.S. Lewis

This thread is about Potter. The Potter plots revolve completely around witchcraft, witch school, incantations, spells, etc. It is geared to our children and de-sensitizes them to everything witchcraft. I agree with the exorcist who warned us about these books and movies.

However, it may be beneficial to start a new thread regarding other authors and movies.

 

[Mumbles140]

This thread is about Potter. The Potter plots revolve completely around witchcraft, witch school, incantations, spells, etc. It is geared to our children and de-sensitizes them to everything witchcraft. I agree with the exorcist who warned us about these books and movies.

However, it may be beneficial to start a new thread regarding other authors and movies.

I’m sorry, but I do not accept that. The argument is that Harry Potter is evil because it contains witchcraft. This has been said by many people who have not read the books. Our defense of Harry Potter is that it is being unfairly singled out, whereas other books are praised even though they contain the same content.

Will you at least admit that the inclusion of magic in a fictional book, whether by good or evil characters, does not automatically qualify the book as evil/dangerous?

Furthermore, everyone is repeating the words of the exorcists, but have the pro-Potter defenders been the only ones who read the Bishop’s statements (posted I believe by Barb, a person against Harry Potter) that said it is the isolation of faith, not Harry Potter, that is leading our children to the occult, and that is the real threat. Care to respond to this as well, please?

 

[Melissa]

Witchcraft is never neutral.

Let me correct that for you: Real world witchcraft is never neutral.

Fictional witchcraft (which has absolutely nothing to do with the real-world variety), on the other hand, is neutral. In the novels, the best way to describe it is that witchcraft is an alternate science which can only be used by those who are born to it. If one is a Muggle, he lights his house by paying his bill to the utility company and flipping light switches as needed; if one is a wizard, he lights his house by uttering “lumos”. No one in the real world lights his house by waving a wand and saying “lumos”.

In other words, the witchcraft in the Harry Potter novels is nothing more than a multi-purpose tool (which one must learn to handle properly, just as all tools require some learning before use to avoid injury to persons and/or damage to property), but the actual point of the novels could be summarized by Dumbledore’s speech to the school at the feast at the end of Harry’s fourth year.

It is my belief, however, that the truth is generally preferable to lies, …we are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided. Lord Voldemort’s gift for spreading discord and enmity is very great. We can fight it only by showing an equally strong bond of friendship and trust. Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open… Remember, if the time should come when you have to make a choice between what is right and what is easy, remember what happened to a boy who was good, and kind, and brave, because he strayed across the path of Lord Voldemort. (GOF, p. 722-724)

My quote is rather highly edited because most of the text there makes sense in the context of the events of that particular novel (and I can direct quote that much under fair use, but three pages might be a tad too much). In the end, love and a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the good of another are virtues which evil can never comprehend and why, in the end, good will triumph over evil–because love and the willingness to sacrifice oneself for another are the “deeper magic” which defeated Voldemort, the White Witch of Narnia, Emperor Palpatine, Emperor Jagang, and any other number of fictional villains whose defeat seemed impossible. And of course, all of these fictional defeats are echoes and poor reflections of the ultimate defeat of real-world evil which will finally happen for the very same reason … that God so loves us that he sent us Jesus who willingly gave up His life for our good.

 

[Mickey]

Fictional witchcraft (which has absolutely nothing to do with the real-world variety), on the other hand, is neutral.

I disagree. Whether “real world” or “fantasy” the spirit of witchcraft is present.

 

[Mickey]

I’m sorry, but I do not accept that.

Okay.

Our defense of Harry Potter is that it is being unfairly singled out, whereas other books are praised even though they contain the same content.

If you are going to “defend” Harry Potter. It should be defended by Scripture and Holy tradition–not by the supposed acceptance of other fictional works.

Care to respond to this as well, please?

“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.
catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=37447

 

[Mumbles140]

I disagree. Whether “real world” or “fantasy” the spirit of witchcraft is present.

So again, I must turn this back to Narnia and Middle-Earth, as well as every single fantasy fiction ever written, and any other book that includes the use of magic. I guess any tales of King Arthur and the Knights involving Merlin must be cast out too, then, huh?

 

[Melissa]

I disagree. Whether “real world” or “fantasy” the spirit of witchcraft is present.

No, the “spirit of witchcraft” is not present in the fictional works. Again, read the whole post and don’t stop with a knee-jerk reaction to the words “witchcraft”, “magic”, “witch” and/or “wizard”. You are equating an apple with a rock–the real world and the fictional are two entirely different entities which have nothing in common beyond the use of the same words.

 

[Mumbles140]

Okay.
If you are going to “defend” Harry Potter. It should be defended by Scripture and Holy tradition–not by the supposed acceptance of other fictional works.

**No - that is not the way it ‘has’ to be. And if you want it that way, read my old threads where I show the Christian symbols/actions in Harry Potter. But who are you to make the determination that some fictional piece of literature MUST be defended by Scripture and Holy Tradition?

If that is truly what you want, I’ll give it a shot. Jesus warns us of the hypocrites - those who practice in wrong-doing but condemn others for their wrong-doing. So we can agree that being a hypocrite is bad, correct?

So I say, then, that if Harry Potter is condemned for containing witchcraft by the same people who support well-known Christian and Catholic authors whose books contain witchcraft, are the condemners not being hypocrites?**

“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.
catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=37447

Though I respect Fr. Eutenener position and right to his opinion, I choose instead to follow the thoughts of the Bishop, which I do not feel need to be repeated being that I hvae referenced them repeatedly.

You can try and ignore the issue, but I will not be satisfied with any argument against Harry Potter until you seriously deal with the argument that other ‘beloved Christian works’ contain witch craft but not singled out. What, then, is your criteria for attacking Potter but praising Narnia and Middle-Earth?

 

[curlycool89]

This thread is about Potter. The Potter plots revolve completely around witchcraft, witch school, incantations, spells, etc. It is geared to our children and de-sensitizes them to everything witchcraft. I agree with the exorcist who warned us about these books and movies.

However, it may be beneficial to start a new thread regarding other authors and movies.

And that’s called deflection. Usually used by someone when backed into an uncomfortable corner. Instead of responding, they attempt to deflect the question because the answer that they have to give is uncomfortable or inconvenient. Usually only used by politicians when they’re trying to promote a certain position and are confronted by a reporter who wants to talk about something else.

I disagree. Whether “real world” or “fantasy” the spirit of witchcraft is present.

I’m sorry, the “spirit of witchcraft”? Now your just making stuff up. There’s no such thing theologically or in any known field as the “spirit of witchcraft”.

“Harry Potter and these Twilight vampires glamorize the power of evil,” Father Eutenener explained, “and this has lead to many, many cases of possession among young people.” It may begin with a child or teenager simply “playing around” with the occult, but that seemingly harmless act is “opening a window” to possession.
catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=37447

Yes, we’ve already gone over Fr. Eutenener, and we’ve already discredited his opinion. His opinion is completely bias, he formulates his conclusions before he has the facts, and twists facts to fit his pre-formed conclusions (That’s called bad science. Scientists who do this rightly get ostracized by the scientific community).

 

[57classic]

I am getting really frustrated as I am sure the opponents of Harry Potter are also.

It is not the fault of the author that she has a better grasp of literary tools than do her critics.

From what I have read she was a single mother struggling to make ends meet. Do you who condem the Harry Potter novels believe she was inspired by Satan to write? If so, do you also believe all fairy tales using magic, fairy godmothers, or magical creatures are inspired by Satan as they are all directed to children? Some are merely entertaining and some were conceived as a warning to naughty children. As countless posters have said the parents must know their children and how well the children have been taught.

If your objection is not for your own children but the children of others, well, in all seriousness there isn’t much you can do except pray for them. If you ban the books, what else are you going to try to control for other peoples’ kids?

The key is, as in everything, proper training.

How many sins of anger and frustration with others have been committed simply because of this thread? How Satan must laugh at us as he keeps us busy sniping at each other over books which are just pieces of paper. The real evil is in the lack of training by parents who are lazy or who believe in nothing and leave their kids searching for something believe in.

My youngest daughter will not read Twilight until I think she is out of any stupid romantic phase where in the idiocy of that series could do harm to her clear thinking. However I have let her read all the parodies of that series I can find just so she will see how stupid, willful and incredibly sappy the story is. She has enjoyed those. I think that waiting until the fever cools and people are a little more clear headed regarding the vampire fad is what my daughter needed to not fall into that insipid romance trap. I personally think Twilight is much more harmful especially to girls than Harry Potter. And that opinion has less to do with occult activity than with real world bad relationships that I believe are encouraged by these books.

 

[Mickey]

No, the “spirit of witchcraft” is not present in the fictional works.

Sorry. I believe that it is.

 

[Mickey]

You can try and ignore the issue, but I will not be satisfied with any argument against Harry Potter until you seriously deal with the argument that other ‘beloved Christian works’ contain witch craft but not singled out. What, then, is your criteria for attacking Potter but praising Narnia and Middle-Earth?

I have already answered you. The Potter stories are completely interwtined with witchcraft, spells, incantations etc. Furthermore, I have never told you that defend other works that include witchcraft.

I have heard that “The Golden Compass” was especially offensive.

 

[curlycool89]

Sorry. I believe that it is.

Respectfully, that puts you on the fringes.

I have heard that “The Golden Compass” was especially offensive.

The Golden Compass wasn’t offensive because of the “magic” (I haven’t read it, so I’m not sure what kind of magic they have). It was offensive because it was anti-Christian, called religion evil, had the Vatican evil enough to make Dan Brown uncomfortable, and promoted extreme atheism as the “solution” to these problems.

 

[Melissa]

I have already answered you. The Potter stories are completely interwtined with witchcraft, spells, incantations etc. Furthermore, I have never told you that defend other works that include witchcraft.

I have heard that “The Golden Compass” was especially offensive.

You speak in generalities (and turn to the same deflection that you previously wanted us to avoid on this thread). The facts as to the content of the novels, however, contradict your assertions and beliefs.

The actual point of the stories is not the “witchcraft, spells, incantations, etc.”–those are simply the tools used by the characters. The actual point of the series is as I stated before: In the end, love and a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the good of another are virtues which evil can never comprehend and why, in the end, good will triumph over evil–because love and the willingness to sacrifice oneself for another are the “deeper magic” which defeated Voldemort, the White Witch of Narnia, Emperor Palpatine, Emperor Jagang, and any other number of fictional villains whose defeat seemed impossible. And of course, all of these fictional defeats are echoes and poor reflections of the ultimate defeat of real-world evil which will finally happen for the very same reason … that God so loves us that he sent us Jesus who willingly gave up His life for our good.

 

[Mumbles140]

I have already answered you. The Potter stories are completely interwtined with witchcraft, spells, incantations etc. Furthermore, I have never told you that defend other works that include witchcraft.

I have heard that “The Golden Compass” was especially offensive.

Actually, you haven’t, because so are works by well-known Christian/Catholic authors who use these exact same devices to setup these tales of heroism, righteousness, self-sacrifice, and virtues. Therefore, if Potter is evil, then so is Narnia, Middle-Earth, Camelot, and the fairy tale worlds, even though the themes are Christian, just like in HP.

And though I have not read it, my understanding of people’s objections to The Golden Compass is not that it contains witch craft, but rather because it is, for lack of a better description, the atheist response to Narnia. My understanding is that the author is an atheist and uses the plot themes to push an atheist agenda. Again, it isn’t in how the message in conveyed, but rather, what message is conveyed that causes disapproval and offense.

Mickey, I’m sorry if this has been previously asked of you, but have you read the Harry Potter books?

 

[Apryl]

Whilst it is quite true that there is no formal religion of witchcraft in the Potter novels, nevertheless Rowling does use the symbol world of the occult as her* primary* metaphor and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of her plots. Moreover, what is so disturbing is that she presents these to the child reader through attractive and so called “cool” role models, such as Harry and Hermoine, who are students of witchcraft and sorcery. Many are rightly of the opinion that this is just too close for comfort to the real thing in the real world and renders the Potter series culturally unwholesome reading material for both children and even adults.

What we need to be clear about is that in Potter-world the characters are engaged in activities which in real life corrupt us, weaken the will, darken the mind and pull the poor hapless practioner down into spiritual bondage. Now we observe Rowling’s heroe’s and herione’s going increasingly deeper into that world but without displaying any negative or untoward side effects, only an increase in “character”. That is clearly a lie. Moreover, it is a Satanic lie which deceived our first parents in Eden; you can have your knowledge of good and evil (you will decide what is good and what is evil), you can have an enhanced life, you can have God-like powers.

… and what makes HP worse than other things of the entertainment world? What about Edgar Allan Poe… tv shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Charmed… music with strange lyrics?

Please explain what makes Harry Potter so much worse?

 

[Apryl]

Witchcraft is never neutral.

In Rowling’s Harry Potter world it is: IT IS FANTASY:thumbsup:

 

[Apryl]

These books are praised for their Catholic/Christian themes, and yet Harry Potter is condemned to Hell by those who have not read it.

You noticed that, too?

 

[Mickey]

And that’s called deflection.

No my friend–I am not deflecting anything.

Usually used by someone when backed into an uncomfortable corner.

I assure you, I do not feel backed into an uncomfortable corner.

Usually only used by politicians when they’re trying to promote a certain position and are confronted by a reporter who wants to talk about something else.

Why don’t you attempt to defend your beloved Potter instead of attacking me personally?

There’s no such thing theologically or in any known field as the “spirit of witchcraft”.

Surely you believe that there are evil spirits lurking----waitng to devour us.

Yes, we’ve already gone over Fr. Eutenener, and we’ve already discredited his opinion.

Really? You discredited the priest exorcist? I think I’ll side with him. No offense.