Church Files Show Mahony Discussed Shielding Abusers

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IT seems unconscionable to do such. I guess at times, it hasn’t been like helping a criminal on the run but more like getting them treatment and setting them free again. Not that I say that makes it okay, there are some differences again.
Of course, there is no possible way to know this, but I wonder what percentage of us would have done exactly the same thing.

It’s so easy for us to point fingers in hindsight, but can we honestly say what we would have done? We can’t, unless we know absolutely everything that’s at stake, and how can we know what’s at stake unless we stand in the shoes of those who made those bad decisions?
 
Of course, there is no possible way to know this, but I wonder what percentage of us would have done exactly the same thing.

It’s so easy for us to point fingers in hindsight, but can we honestly say what we would have done? We can’t, unless we know absolutely everything that’s at stake, and how can we know what’s at stake unless we stand in the shoes of those who made those bad decisions?
Right, I’m only pointing out how the methodologies work, I’m not even commenting on percentages, just saying how these things can happen. I use to drive by a rehabilitation/recovery (including alcoholism treatment) center for the Religious/Clergy and my heart always felt a bit sad driving by. It was indeed basically out in the wilderness.
 
Right, I’m only pointing out how the methodologies work, I’m not even commenting on percentages, just saying how these things can happen. I use to drive by a rehabilitation/recovery (including alcoholism treatment) center for the Religious/Clergy and my heart always felt a bit sad driving by. It was indeed basically out in the wilderness.
My comment wasn’t directed at you personally… I quoted you because you had made the most recent comment about that subject.

And to get back to my original assertion: Many have nurtured a grievance for decades, merely because nobody ever apologized for it, or even acknowledged that there was any injustice or injury done.
 
All this tells me is that you live in some kind of bubble where the only information you pay any attention to is that which concerns the Catholic Church.

Penn State Scandal?

Pay any attention to goings on in England? BBC TV personality??

Ever watch DATELINE for heaven’s sake??? They spent YEARS documenting abusers and NOT ONE OF THEM WAS A PRIEST.

Google is your friend. Take some time to do a little research.
you should take me seriously because i am the most objective of people. this country has reported the same cases every single day, all day long for 5 years or so. when the news was over the talkshows started for another couple of hours, the papers and radio were the same. this was the entire media force of an entire country (i was not living in a bubble) and it is a good and useful thing to look at it to understand what has and can happen.
a couple of years ago it became so bad that even those investigative journalists reporting fabricated stories and ruined a priests life. those people were all fired, big court case, they were found guilty, the head of the tv media, a former catholic priest, had to come out publicly and make a statement, nobody had seen him before, and the rules of broadcasting were changed.
and now there is relative silence for the last year or so.
i took this peaceful opportunity, now that the cases are resolved more or less, to switch off the tv for ever, tune out the radio, and i don’t buy papers anymore. i have now created a sort of national bubble, i blank them out now that i know what they are like and how the court has ruled on their behaviour and the judgement against them of the broadcasting commission. i object to our media. but i see the world news section here on caf from time to time.
 
If they weren’t priests, we would never have heard anything about them.
But they are priests of a church that claims to be Christ’s one and only true Church. I think that may have something to do with the coverage the Catholic Church receives in these cases. I realize every human is capable of sin including priests. And Catholics believe in a teaching authority of their bishops with regard to teachings of the faith. Not that they necessarily always live without personal sin in their own lives. But I think for some they see and learn and read about these cases of abuse and molestation, in cases of minor age children no less and the subsequent cover ups by clergy claiming to represent Christ’s one and only true Church. When these same priests and bishops spend so much time preaching the sanctity of life and of unborn children. Some people then can’t help but think and ponder over His words in Matt 7:15-16 for instance.
 
Gosh, what can we as Catholics say?

It’s pretty shameful. A great scar on the Church in our time.

I pray that our Bishops are living up to their words regarding the travesty of clergy sex abuse. If it is shown that they aren’t or are still covering up- I don’t see any more forgiveness.
What you said is probably better than making excuses and crying about other cases not in the news as much. Though I would say forgiveness is never impossible until they’ve taken their last breaths on this earth. That’s what Christ sacrificed on the cross for. But could the priests be return to lay status and the persons believed to be apostolic successors have that title removed and designated to Catholic laity as well?
 
Wow, this guy is getting 1,000 years for Child Abuse. Isn’t that amazing. How could he have done all this and in Pennsylvania as well. A tattoo artist?

inquisitr.com/494929/serial-child-molester-walter-meyerle-gets-almost-1000-years-in-prison-for-unprecedented-abuse/

But you see, the point is these things happen very frequently apparently if one were to start classifying them as to who does what. Point made in this thread and NONE of it is okay or acceptable.
Ok, now let’s see if the mainstream television news media run with this for months.
 
But could the priests be returned to lay status and the persons believed to be apostolic successors have that title removed and designated to Catholic laity as well?
Before anyone says Judas betrayed Christ and Thomas doubted Him and Peter even denied Him 3 times but was still in the Catholic faith the 1st Pope, yes I know all of that. I was just asking if the persons believed in your faith to be apostolic successors who cover up such child abuses have to remain so?
 
Right. It is called aiding and abetting.
That doesn’t seem likely. Aiding and Abetting (at least in California) requires the individual knew, in advance, that a crime was about to be committed.

According to the news, if charges are to be filed they would be Conspiracy or Obstruction of Justice. Conspiracy charges seem unlikely since the statute of limitations is three years. Obstruction has a statute of limitations of ten years, so even that charge is kind of iffy.
news.yahoo.com/bishop-apologizes-role-hiding-priest-abuse-053701786.html;_ylt=AwrHgPtjlv9Q4RMAtwCs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNsNTcwdGUwBG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBGUARwa2cDZThjYmYyODktY2MwNi0zZjhmLWIzMjAtNTc3ZmEwM2FhN2NiBHBvcwM2BHNlYwN0b3Bfc3RvcnkEdmVyAzU5NDFhYzc0LTY1MmQtMTFlMi1iOWZjLWY3OTQzMGZkYmY2Mw–;_ylg=X3oDMTFpNzk0NjhtBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3
 
But they are priests of a church that claims to be Christ’s one and only true Church. I think that may have something to do with the coverage the Catholic Church receives in these cases.
Satan may have something to do with it.
When these same priests and bishops spend so much time preaching the sanctity of life and of unborn children.
Right. Some people think a person must be perfectly right or perfectly wrong. Like a cartoon.
I was just asking if the persons believed in your faith to be apostolic successors who cover up such child abuses have to remain so?
Everyone is a sinner. The punishment is greater for those who are more enlightened.

Baptism, Holy Matrimony, Confirmation, and Holy Orders cannot be removed.

Every crisis leaves the Church better and stronger.
 
Some people think a person must be perfectly right or perfectly wrong. .
No but maybe some people look at their fruits by which to try to know them by. And they have difficulty with what they see. This is why this as Ringil said was a great scar on the Catholic Church. There are undoubtedly people who have turned away or turned further away as a result.
 
That doesn’t seem likely. Aiding and Abetting (at least in California) requires the individual knew, in advance, that a crime was about to be committed.

According to the news, if charges are to be filed they would be Conspiracy or Obstruction of Justice. Conspiracy charges seem unlikely since the statute of limitations is three years. Obstruction has a statute of limitations of ten years, so even that charge is kind of iffy.
news.yahoo.com/bishop-apologizes-role-hiding-priest-abuse-053701786.html;_ylt=AwrHgPtjlv9Q4RMAtwCs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNsNTcwdGUwBG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBGUARwa2cDZThjYmYyODktY2MwNi0zZjhmLWIzMjAtNTc3ZmEwM2FhN2NiBHBvcwM2BHNlYwN0b3Bfc3RvcnkEdmVyAzU5NDFhYzc0LTY1MmQtMTFlMi1iOWZjLWY3OTQzMGZkYmY2Mw–;_ylg=X3oDMTFpNzk0NjhtBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3
I didn’t say anywhere that His Eminence was guilty of it. And it is not my job to do so.

Julia Mae wrote:
Right. And when someone commits a crime and you conspire to keep them from being charged and standing trial, you are have committed a crime, also.
My reply:
Right. It is called aiding and abetting.
All my reply meant was to give the name to what Julia Mae was talking about.

I hope this settles the matter. 🙂
 
What people forget in the outcry about these old, stale cases is that we are judging the past through the lens of the present. The fact is that sexual abuse was seen in a drastically different way several decades ago. The fact is that you didn’t report it to the police, you kept it “in the family” and as quiet as possible, because there was not just a stigma attached to being an abuser, but a stigma attached to being abused as well. And there was a significant social cost for accusing someone, right or wrong. Furthermore, it was widely accepted that pedophilia and related predatory behavior could be “cured” through therapy. Therefore, the best course available to a bishop in those days was to quietly move the offender to someplace else, often someplace where he would receive intensive therapy to “cure” him, and then place him back out in the wild because assurances were made that he would not reoffend.

You have to understand that a significant investment goes into the formation and ordination of a priest. It is not just a careeer. It is not just a day job. It is a vocation, a dedication of one’s entire life. Years are spent in discernment and formation and years are spent in education afterward to prepare the priest for a lifetime of pastoral duty. It was nearly unthinkable to throw this all away by laicization (“defrocking”) when an otherwise good and holy priest was found to be abusing children. Based on the culture of the time, the bishop did what he could to protect his investment. He might send the priest away for counseling or therapy. He might “imprison” him in a monastery for some time. But it is a priest’s calling and duty to perform public ministry so they were often not out of commission for very long. Remember that the extremely high recidivism rate of sexual abuse was not known to anyone at the time. Anyone! The police and the authorities would have done quite the same thing to an offender if he had been reported, anyway. I do not think you would find such lengthy prison terms and stringent requirements placed on “registered sex offenders” after they had atoned in confinement back in those days.

But now we know all these facts about sexual abuse and, moving forward, we are much better equipped to deal with them. The Church has learned many things she will not easily forget. There are policies and procedures in place now, training programs, heightened awareness, and not just inside the Church but outside as well. The sexual revolution, if anything good can come of it, is the increasing frankness by which Americans speak of sexual abuse and crime. It is the improved teaching of our children how to recognize predators and stay away in the first place. It is equipping law enforcement with the tools necessary to investigate and prosecute these crimes effectively. None of this was in place decades ago. It could never have happened that abusers would have been duly reported and locked up and removed from opportunities to abuse ever again.

What’s done is done. The Church has moved on and so too must the public. Find a new scapegoat for the mainstream media feeding frenzies. We are beyond your reach now - and always have been - we are a holy institution from God. Full of sinners, but destined for Heaven and eternal life because our spiritual mission is much greater than any earthly person or power.
 
What people forget in the outcry about these old, stale cases is that we are judging the past through the lens of the present. The fact is that sexual abuse was seen in a drastically different way several decades ago. The fact is that you didn’t report it to the police, you kept it “in the family” and as quiet as possible, because there was not just a stigma attached to being an abuser, but a stigma attached to being abused as well. And there was a significant social cost for accusing someone, right or wrong.
It’s true that sexual abuse crimes are notoriously under-reported – which is why I have no confidence in the church’s version of the extent of the problem.
Furthermore, it was widely accepted that pedophilia and related predatory behavior could be “cured” through therapy. Therefore, the best course available to a bishop in those days was to quietly move the offender to someplace else, often someplace where he would receive intensive therapy to “cure” him, and then place him back out in the wild because assurances were made that he would not reoffend.
You have to understand that a significant investment goes into the formation and ordination of a priest. It is not just a careeer. It is not just a day job. It is a vocation, a dedication of one’s entire life. Years are spent in discernment and formation and years are spent in education afterward to prepare the priest for a lifetime of pastoral duty.
I simply don’t know how a priest can go through years of discernment, education and formation – not to mention being the recipient of immeasurable quantities of sanctifying grace – and still think it’s OK to abuse children. If an offending priest could be immune to all of that moral training and grace, why would a bishop think that a bit of therapy would do the trick?
It was nearly unthinkable to throw this all away by laicization (“defrocking”) when an otherwise good and holy priest was found to be abusing children.
I can’t read this sentence without my head exploding.
Based on the culture of the time, the bishop did what he could to protect his investment.
…as opposed to the most vulnerable members of his flock.
The police and the authorities would have done quite the same thing to an offender if he had been reported, anyway. I do not think you would find such lengthy prison terms and stringent requirements placed on “registered sex offenders” after they had atoned in confinement back in those days.
I seriously doubt a repeat offender would have been sent to therapy instead of the pokie. While offenders in the past might have not received the sentences they do today, they would have a least served some time and the public would have had a record of their offenses. The offending priests served no time until recently and their criminal activities were completely hidden from the people who were taught to trust their priests. That secrecy facilitated their predatory behavior.
What’s done is done. The Church has moved on and so too must the public. Find a new scapegoat for the mainstream media feeding frenzies.
The church doesn’t seem to be in the best position to dictate to the public what it must and must not do at this juncture…
We are beyond your reach now - and always have been …
Not only would some plaintiffs’ attorneys and public prosecutors seem to disagree, but it was precisely this miscalculation that led to much of this mess.
 
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