F
falisrm
Guest
It looks like the Mormons and the Catholics are going to be the only 2 churches left in the next decade or so. Every other church is losing members
religionus.blogspot.com/
religionus.blogspot.com/
- Status
T
teancum79
Guest
Thats an overstatement, but I think there is something appealing about churches that stand their ground on moral issues and don’t change with the times.
C
Carl_Nicholas
Guest
Hello Teancum,
To clarify your comment ( If I may )
Do you emply ( Catholic and Morman ) to be 2 examples of " appealing" and " Standing ground " for one to chose for their landing place.
Thank you and Gos bless
Carl
T
teancum79
Guest
Yes both churches have a long history of being outspoken on subjects they feel strongly about and holding to values despite the winds of change in what is popular.
J
J_C
Guest
I wouldn’t quite say that, but nevermind.
I notice the analysis, at least in the graph, doesn’t address the explosive growth in the socalled non-denominational phenomenon. by my own observation most of these people are coming out of the organized denomiations, that is the primary reason (I believe) why the mainlines appear to be shrinking.
personally I don’t think the raw numbers mean very much. Raw numbers can be a measure of success for a sect that is hellbent on church growth. One of my good friends went to Christian and Missionary Alliance seminary in Nyack, NY. He had classes in church growth, specifically how to do it, and one of his assignments was to actually seed a church, which he tried to do out of our bible study, which then led to a rift.
In my experience, the Catholic Church hardly seems to care about church growth, and that in my oponion is about how it should be.
T
teancum79
Guest
Growth for the sake of growth is not a good thing. Growth as a factor of how many lives are being blessed is a worthy goal.
C
Carl_Nicholas
Guest
Hello again teancum,
I VERY RESPECTFULLY offer to you that your premise of ( LONG HISTORY as well as VALUES THAT DO NOT CHANGE)
does not seem to be an logical reason of the OP’S thread.
At any rate, I do appreciate your kind response to me.
God bless,
Carl
F
falisrm
Guest
It makes perfect sense. He was saying that people usually flock to churches that hold high family values and other moral standards
C
Carl_Nicholas
Guest
Hello falisrm,
Perfect sense to you
No sense to me
To attribute the SAME family values and SIMILAR history
( given all the facts available to all )
AGAIN makes NO sense to me as to why there may be only those 2 churches left
God bless,
Carl
T
teancum79
Guest
Those two alone only is nuts, but the CC and the LDS have done a much better job of standing up on issues like abortion and homosexual marriage than any others I know of in the US. They also both have a fairly strong leadership structure. This does not mean everyone else is going away, but may explain the current trend displayed in the graph.
C
Carl_Nicholas
Guest
N
NDfan
Guest
Very true. Roman Catholics are moving into these churches in droves. But the RCC still counts them as members since they didn’t formally resign. Our church is over 3500 members. Over 50% are former Roman Catholics. We’re partnered with 11 other non-denoms that are twice our size. The same stat applies there as well.
Couldn’t agree more. Sometimes chuch growth becomes too much of a focus. Instead we need to look at bringing people to Christ.
Not sure if I agree here. But again you are right on point. David was punished for taking a census. If christians focus on their faith by setting the right example then people will tend to follow that example.
PEACE
E
Eden
Guest
It’s my understanding that the Catholic membership records are very accurate. I believe they rely on the yearly reports of registered members in each parish. When a member is inactive for several years, they would be removed from the system as registered members. So, your statement that members who didn’t formally “resign” are being counted does not contribute substantially to the total number. I could be wrong about this. But I do remember reading a secular article when the latest figures for Church membership were released which affirmed that the numbers were more accurate than most, due to the system used. I’m searching for the article… I’ll post it if I can ever find it!
T
teancum79
Guest
If going to a service for Ester and/or Christmas counts a lot of people could be very involved in a non denominational church, but hit the CC for special events and be counted there too.
I’ve known many who claim to be catholic, but only swing by a few times a year. (I met one who would go to church almost daily).
I’ve known many who claim to be catholic, but only swing by a few times a year. (I met one who would go to church almost daily).
E
Eden
Guest
This is from the website for The Official Catholic Directory:
For over 190 years, **The Official Catholic Directory **has served as a vital research and reference tool for anyone interested in the Catholic community. First published in 1817 by P.J. Kenedy & Sons, The Official Catholic Directory is the most authoritative resource available today on the Catholic Church. Each edition provides complete information on the Church’s hierarchy, its institutions, schools, special care centers, and affiliated facilities. It offers the most comprehensive and detailed profiles on each (arch) diocese in the United States and hundreds of (arch) dioceses around the world.
Because the Catholic Church recognizes The Official Catholic Directory **as the single authoritative directory, it achieves 100% verification and participation from each and every Catholic institution within the 208 (arch) dioceses.
catholicdir.com/about.php
**The USCCB site gives useful information on the methods of surveying the Catholic population:
Estimates of the U.S. Catholic population vary by up to nine million depending on the types of measuring instruments employed. “*The Official Catholic Directory *presents a more restrictive measure of Catholic membership than the broad definition of self-identification. The *Directory *consists of Catholic population estimates provided by parish managers,” write Joseph Claude Harris and Mary Gautier in *Financing Catholic Parishes in the United States: A National and Regional Comparison *(Center for Applied Research of the Apostolate: Georgetown University, 2002), p. 9. Harris further explains in his recent Did Catholic Giving to Parishes or Dioceses Decline in 2002?, “The *Official Catholic Directory *staff coordinates an annual census conducted at the parish and agency level of a variety of religious, educational and charitable activities undertaken by Catholics.” Harris points to data (proportions of self-identifying Catholics) from the American Religions Identification Survey (ARIS) conducted in 2001 by the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, which revealed that 24.6 percent of Americans call themselves Catholic. Applying data from this study to state populations, Harris estimates that 70.9 million Americans called themselves Catholic in 2002. “A comparison of the OCD population estimate and the results of the ARIS 2001 religious preference survey indicated that 8.8 million more Americans call themselves Catholic than are reported by the census efforts of The Official Catholic Directory,” Joseph Claude Harris, *Did Catholic Giving to Parishes or Dioceses Decline in 2002? *(October, 2003: josephclaudeharris.com), p. 18. Harris suggests that one reason the numbers vary so widely is the phenomenon of Catholics who move from one state to another, and fail to register in their new local parish.
usccb.org/comm/cip.shtml
For over 190 years, **The Official Catholic Directory **has served as a vital research and reference tool for anyone interested in the Catholic community. First published in 1817 by P.J. Kenedy & Sons, The Official Catholic Directory is the most authoritative resource available today on the Catholic Church. Each edition provides complete information on the Church’s hierarchy, its institutions, schools, special care centers, and affiliated facilities. It offers the most comprehensive and detailed profiles on each (arch) diocese in the United States and hundreds of (arch) dioceses around the world.
Because the Catholic Church recognizes The Official Catholic Directory **as the single authoritative directory, it achieves 100% verification and participation from each and every Catholic institution within the 208 (arch) dioceses.
catholicdir.com/about.php
**The USCCB site gives useful information on the methods of surveying the Catholic population:
Estimates of the U.S. Catholic population vary by up to nine million depending on the types of measuring instruments employed. “*The Official Catholic Directory *presents a more restrictive measure of Catholic membership than the broad definition of self-identification. The *Directory *consists of Catholic population estimates provided by parish managers,” write Joseph Claude Harris and Mary Gautier in *Financing Catholic Parishes in the United States: A National and Regional Comparison *(Center for Applied Research of the Apostolate: Georgetown University, 2002), p. 9. Harris further explains in his recent Did Catholic Giving to Parishes or Dioceses Decline in 2002?, “The *Official Catholic Directory *staff coordinates an annual census conducted at the parish and agency level of a variety of religious, educational and charitable activities undertaken by Catholics.” Harris points to data (proportions of self-identifying Catholics) from the American Religions Identification Survey (ARIS) conducted in 2001 by the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, which revealed that 24.6 percent of Americans call themselves Catholic. Applying data from this study to state populations, Harris estimates that 70.9 million Americans called themselves Catholic in 2002. “A comparison of the OCD population estimate and the results of the ARIS 2001 religious preference survey indicated that 8.8 million more Americans call themselves Catholic than are reported by the census efforts of The Official Catholic Directory,” Joseph Claude Harris, *Did Catholic Giving to Parishes or Dioceses Decline in 2002? *(October, 2003: josephclaudeharris.com), p. 18. Harris suggests that one reason the numbers vary so widely is the phenomenon of Catholics who move from one state to another, and fail to register in their new local parish.
usccb.org/comm/cip.shtml
U
ufamtobie
Guest
Teancum,
You say that both churches have a “Long History” surely you can’t compare the Catholic Church history to the mormon history that is silly to do so. Mormonism, started arround the 1830’s by a cowboy named Joseph Smith “heehaw”. lol
The Catholic Church was founded over 2000 years ago by Jesus Christ, who handed his Church to the care of his Apostles and their successors. Now that is HISTORY of being OUTSPOKEN of the subjects that JESUS feels strongly about Holding to Values despite the winds of change holding True to the Teachings of Jesus Christ.
the website below shows that Joseph Smith was a false prophet
www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/mormon-religion
Ufamtobie
A
abucs
Guest
I hear a lot of non Catholic Churches say something like - “half of our members are ex-Catholic”.
Since most of these Churches are losing members at a fast rate, having half the members as former Catholics would point to an even faster decline in the members they already have.
Is there any evidence that a lot of these non Catholic churches are simply ‘half way houses’ for people to reject Christianity altogether ?
Since most of these Churches are losing members at a fast rate, having half the members as former Catholics would point to an even faster decline in the members they already have.
Is there any evidence that a lot of these non Catholic churches are simply ‘half way houses’ for people to reject Christianity altogether ?
M
mark_a
Guest
I have read on these forums that there are many, many denoms of Mormonism. Some are polygamists, some are no longer.
Only the originals appear to have any centralized authority or Mormon pope.
C
Cat
Guest
I’m not sure if I understand your question.
We have a megachurch in our city, planted by the Willow Creek Association. Approximately 10,000 people attend every weekend (Sat and Sun worship “experiences”). That’s 10,000 people IN ATTENDANCE, not just listed on a membership roster. A few months ago, the church bought another piece of property (an old restaurant) to use for the overflow Sunday crowds. (The sermons and music are all broadcast to the congregation in attendance via video.)
This megachurch has taken thousands of people, including several pastors, from various churches in our community, but it also attracts people who have never been church-goers. That’s a good thing, IMO.
The Bible says that we’ll know they are Christians by whether they obey Christ. This megachurch has put many of the other churches to shame with their active involvement in the community and by leading the community relief for Katrina victims. Many people visit that church because they are curious to know why these people are so GOOD!
In answer to your question, it is definitely a Christian church, teaching Jesus Christ crucified, risen, and coming again. There is no heresy taught, except for the Protestant errors (heresies, if you prefer). But they don’t deny the Virgin Birth, or the literal resurrection of Jesus, or the non-existence of hell, like some of the liberal denominations teach.
It is what I and others call “Christian Lite.” A very simplistic version of the Gospel, basically stating “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.” There is no fallacy in this verse of Scripture, is there? Yes, it leaves a lot out. But it’s the True Gospel of Jesus.
I believe, as do others, that the nondenominational megachurches are a “starting place” for someone to meet Jesus and learn basic Christian theology. Once they grow up a little (in the Lord), I believe that many of them will make the switch to deeper churches, including the Catholic Church. We have already had several “refugees” from the megachurch come to our parish, claiming that “they want a deeper theology, more “meat” of the Bible, not just the milk.”
Another function of megachurches and non-denoms is that they are a good place for people who have been hurt in their church or by so-called “Christians” to “hide” for a while and just sit back and rest and recover from the hurt. Once their wounds are healed, they can venture forth and re-join a deeper church that demands more of them. It’s certainly better that these hurt ones attend a megachurch rather than abandon church entirely or worse, curse all churches.
So it’s my opinion that we shouldn’t knock non-denominational churches and megachurches, but accept them as Christian fellowships and remember the words of Our Lord: “If they’re not against us, they’re for us.”
T
teancum79
Guest
The CC has been around longer yes. JS was not a cowboy and as to the CC being founded by Christ we should save that for another thread.
Would you mind saving you unrelated attack crud for another thread?
- Status