Church history with governments

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Ilovejesus1234

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What is the church history behind the fact that Mussolini and Hitler, worked with the church?

What else has the church done in this regard throughout history?

I always heard the quote be obedient towards them but don’t follow their example.
 
I don’t know much about Mussolini, but Hitler did not work with the Church. There are two very separate accounts of the time period: the first is very complimentary toward Pope Pius XII’s efforts to save Jews during this time. Many Jewish testimonies and careful history confirm this. The second version is one that promoted by a Russian play, called among other things “the deputy”. This propaganda piece was widely preformed and attempted to vilify Pius and demonstrate collusion between he and German forces. What you end up with is sometime difficult to sort out.

Generally speaking, Pius worked tirelessly to save Jews from Hitler. Neither man necessarily wanted to be too outspoken: Hitler because he feared the Church’s influence and Pius because there were too many circumstances he couldn’t control. There were time where he issued condemnation to be read by bishops in the Churches, but with the spies (and even German children promised reward for turning in anti-Nazi supporters), the death toll retributions for the pope making these statements was sometimes high. So he was cautioned against being outwardly vocal through the network of Churches in the interest of safety for the people involved. As a result, there are also others today that accuse Pius of inactivity during the period.
 
Ilovejesus1234 said:
What is the church history behind the fact that Mussolini and Hitler, worked with the church?
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Mussolini and Hitler signed agreements with the Church stating in part that the Church would be able to appoint its own bishops without State interference and teach its own religion in schools. These agreements are public record: here is the full text of the agreement with Hitler. Here is the agreement with Mussolini. You yourself can verify that there was nothing in those agreements that the Church should have had objections to.

The documents did not imply that the Church was okay with Hitler and Mussolini. The Church merely agreed to the documents allowing the Church to do its own thing free from State interference.
What else has the church done in this regard throughout history?
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Fr. Leslie Rumble cites evidence that the Church spoke up against Mussolini: On May 13th, 1929, Mussolini declared that the education of youth belonged to the State; and that, whilst then would be taught the Catholic religion, they must be moulded according to Fascist ideals with a sense of virility and power of conquest. Next day, May 14th, the Pope denounced Mussolini’s doctrine of State absolutism, his principle that children belonged to the State, and denied the right to instill aggressive nationalism and ideas of conquest. And he reminded Mussolini that the powers of the State are conferred upon it by those it governs. “Hence,” he said, “the State must use its powers on behalf of those who conferred them.” These words of the Pope show the wide gap between the democratic social principles of the Catholic Church, and the anti-democratic ideas of Fascism. source

The encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge condemned Nazi ideals in paragraph 8.

From all this data, we should draw two conclusions:

(1) Hitler and Mussolini at one point agreed to let the Church run itself in their countries, and the Church said that was a good thing.
(2) When Hitler and Mussolini did evil things, the Church condemned their actions.

I think that’s a very defensible history.
 
dmar198 said:
Mussolini and Hitler signed agreements with the Church stating in part that the Church would be able to appoint its own bishops without State interference and teach its own religion in schools. These agreements are public record: here is the full text of the agreement with Hitler. Here is the agreement with Mussolini. You yourself can verify that there was nothing in those agreements that the Church should have had objections to.

The documents did not imply that the Church was okay with Hitler and Mussolini. The Church merely agreed to the documents allowing the Church to do its own thing free from State interference. Fr. Leslie Rumble cites evidence that the Church spoke up against Mussolini: On May 13th, 1929, Mussolini declared that the education of youth belonged to the State; and that, whilst then would be taught the Catholic religion, they must be moulded according to Fascist ideals with a sense of virility and power of conquest. Next day, May 14th, the Pope denounced Mussolini’s doctrine of State absolutism, his principle that children belonged to the State, and denied the right to instill aggressive nationalism and ideas of conquest. And he reminded Mussolini that the powers of the State are conferred upon it by those it governs. “Hence,” he said, “the State must use its powers on behalf of those who conferred them.” These words of the Pope show the wide gap between the democratic social principles of the Catholic Church, and the anti-democratic ideas of Fascism. source

The encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge condemned Nazi ideals in paragraph 8.

From all this data, we should draw two conclusions:

(1) Hitler and Mussolini at one point agreed to let the Church run itself in their countries, and the Church said that was a good thing.
(2) When Hitler and Mussolini did evil things, the Church condemned their actions.

I think that’s a very defensible history.
Click to expand...
Catholic Answers has recently published a new condensed book of “Radio Replies”
by Fr. Leslie Rumble. (originally a 3 volume set). A wonderful book that answers almost any question one could ask. I have given several away already. God Bless, Memaw
 
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