church history

[highrigger1]

Rigger1,

Whether the authors are Catholic and/or their works bear the nihil obstat does not matter all that much. The latter designation simply means that the book is free of doctrinal error. It does NOT mean that any Pope or Bishop agrees with it; and it certainly doesn’t mean that the work is free of factual errors.

stew,

Raymond Brown was very respected as a historian and bible expert. Here is what a bookcover says.

Inside Cover of An Introduction to the New Testament
by Raymond E. Brown

At the pinnacle of his career, Raymond E Brown, SS, PhD, is internationally regarded
regarded as a dean of New Testament scholars. As Auburn Distinguished
Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at Union Theological Seminary
in New York City, he has received some thirty honorary degrees from
Catholic and Protestant universities worldwide, he has been elected
a (Corresponding) Fellow of the British Academy and a member of the
American Academy of Arts and Sciences. In addition to being past
president of the Catholic Biblical Association, and the Society of
New Testament Studies, he has been approved by two Popes as the sole
American on the Pontifical Biblical Commission. Brown has written
more than thirty five books on the Bible including the acclaimed
Anchor Bible Reference Library volumes The Birth of the Messiah,
Revised Edition and the Death of the Messiah.

Honored by two popes. If you dispute him you need to know what you are talking about.

Peace, JohnR

 

[highrigger1]

highrigger1;9214387:

So why did Jesus pray that His followers be one as He and the Father were one? The protestant revolt was good for no one, the least of which is all the protestant people. As far as the “capitalist system” is concerned you protestants can have full responsibility for that one. It is a system based on personal greed and far removed from the catholic system as mentioned in Acts where need not greed was the requirement.

ink,

The protestant reformation was good for the world, for all of us.

Jesus wanted us to be unified as brothers in christ. It does not matter what church roles we are on.

Sorry you dont like the capitalist system. It has been a boon to the world.

Peace, JohnR

 

[stewstew03]

stew,

Raymond Brown was very respected as a historian and bible expert. Here is what a bookcover says.

Inside Cover of An Introduction to the New Testament
by Raymond E. Brown

At the pinnacle of his career, Raymond E Brown, SS, PhD, is internationally regarded
regarded as a dean of New Testament scholars. As Auburn Distinguished
Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at Union Theological Seminary
in New York City, he has received some thirty honorary degrees from
Catholic and Protestant universities worldwide, he has been elected
a (Corresponding) Fellow of the British Academy and a member of the
American Academy of Arts and Sciences. In addition to being past
president of the Catholic Biblical Association, and the Society of
New Testament Studies, he has been approved by two Popes as the sole
American on the Pontifical Biblical Commission. Brown has written
more than thirty five books on the Bible including the acclaimed
Anchor Bible Reference Library volumes The Birth of the Messiah,
Revised Edition and the Death of the Messiah.

Honored by two popes. If you dispute him you need to know what you are talking about.

Peace, JohnR

Okay, well I’ll post the same comment that I posted on another thread:

You assume that the historical-critical approach used by Father Brown is superior to the Patristic (or neo-Patristic) approach favored by most Catholic biblical scholars.

And, while you make an appeal to Brown’s authority, my guess is that you don’t agree with his Theology.

 

[James224]

Hi. The main reason I ended up on these forums is because ive been doing a Bible study with the women’s group at my church on James. I was very surprised to find that James was almost cut from the Protestant Bible. My summer reading project is now to read the excluded books. I want to find out if the baby got thrown out with the bath water.

I’m very curious about church history now and want to know when and why certain beliefs got booted. Please regimens me some good resources on this subject.

To start with, many beliefs were booted at the Protestant Revolution that began in 1517 with Luther. The original King James Bible had the Deuterocanical Books in the back. When the KJV came to America, they were taken out. These books are: Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Baruch, 1 & 2 Macabees and Esther.

 

[domestichippie]

Although not my cup of tea, the Catholic Church does have within it a Charismatic movement, which may be similar to your pentacostal service. There is actually a wide variety of different Masses in the Catholic Church. Besides the regular Mass (Norvus Ordo or NO), there is also the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM). I’m sure you will find a parish and Mass that makes you feel right at home.

I’m actually very surprise and pleasantly so to to find theatrical there is such diversity while still maintaining union. It makes me even more curious about how Christs church got so divided.

 

[JRKH]

I’m actually very surprise and pleasantly so to to find theatrical there is such diversity while still maintaining union.

The Church is so beautiful and so diverse…Not only does the “Latin Rite” run the Gamut from “Charismatic” to “traditional”, but there are other “Rites”, mainly Easter rite Churches in union with Rome. Then there is one of the newest members of the diversity team…the Ordinariate set up for our Anglican brothers and sisters who wish to convert but keep their Anglican practices and identities.

It makes me even more curious about how Christs church got so divided.

The shortest answer to this is Pride…and too often, Pride on both sides…
After this short answer - things get very complicated…:whacky::hypno:

Peace
James

 

[domestichippie]

The Church is so beautiful and so diverse…Not only does the “Latin Rite” run the Gamut from “Charismatic” to “traditional”, but there are other “Rites”, mainly Easter rite Churches in union with Rome. Then there is one of the newest members of the diversity team…the Ordinariate set up for our Anglican brothers and sisters who wish to convert but keep their Anglican practices and identities.

The shortest answer to this is Pride…and too often, Pride on both sides…
After this short answer - things get very complicated…:whacky::hypno:

Peace
James

Stupid auto correct! Please ignore the words that obviously make no sense. While I generally like a gospel sound I have a soft spot for the traditional. I took three years of Latin( such a nerd) I really enjoy singing it

 

[JRKH]

Stupid auto correct! Please ignore the words that obviously make no sense.

No problem. All the words make sense.

While I generally like a gospel sound I have a soft spot for the traditional. I took three years of Latin( such a nerd) I really enjoy singing it

I’m sort of the opposite (of course I was raised Catholic). I tend to prefer the more traditional songs and sounds but I like some gospel style music.

Peace
James

 

[highrigger1]

Okay, well I’ll post the same comment that I posted on another thread:

You assume that the historical-critical approach used by Father Brown is superior to the Patristic (or neo-Patristic) approach favored by most Catholic biblical scholars.

And, while you make an appeal to Brown’s authority, my guess is that you don’t agree with his Theology.

stew,

I am in general agreement with Browns opinion about the book of James. It certainly belongs in the bible and Luther of course included it. Note that Eusebius in his History of the Church questions James as well as some other books later accepted.

I would add that I find that most Catholic scholars and bible experts including Brown use the historical critical approach to James and all else in the bible and christian history.
Brown was the president of the Catholic Bible Assn and the only American selected by two popes to the Pontifical Biblical Commission. He is not an odd ball by any means.

I read Brown for his expertise on christian history and what the authors of the bible verses intended when they wrote it. Catholics and protestants use this information in a different manner.

Peace, JohnR

 

[inkaneer]

Quote:

So why did Jesus pray that His followers be one as He and the Father were one? The protestant revolt was good for no one, the least of which is all the protestant people. As far as the “capitalist system” is concerned you protestants can have full responsibility for that one. It is a system based on personal greed and far removed from the catholic system as mentioned in Acts where need not greed was the requirement.
highrigger1;9217338:

inkaneer;9214422:

ink,

The protestant reformation was good for the world, for all of us.

Jesus wanted us to be unified as brothers in christ. It does not matter what church roles we are on.

Sorry you dont like the capitalist system. It has been a boon to the world.

Peace, JohnR

The protestant reformation was no reformation. It reformed nothing. Instead it was a revolt against the church which existed for 1500 years.

Yes, Jesus wanted us to be unified as brothers in Christ that is why he established a church and prayed that His followers be one. So how does splitting the church make us more unified???

If you check the book of acts the early church was communistic not capitalistic. Acts clearly says this:

“34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of what was sold 35 and laid it at the apostles’ feet; and distribution was made to each as any had need.” [ACTS 4:34-35 RSV]

This was true communism, not the kind practiced in the Soviet Union, Cuba, N. Korea, China and the rest of the dictator led Marxist kind. Capitalism per se has no room for the corporal works of mercy. The works of mercy are socialistic in nature.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

The end of the 10th century and beginning of the 11th are a particularly interesting period in church history.

 

[kepha1]

highrigger said:

I am in general agreement with Browns opinion about the book of James. It certainly belongs in the bible and Luther of course included it. Note that Eusebius in his History of the Church questions James as well as some other books later accepted.

I would add that I find that most Catholic scholars and bible experts including Brown use the historical critical approach to James and all else in the bible and christian history.
Brown was the president of the Catholic Bible Assn and the only American selected by two popes to the Pontifical Biblical Commission. He is not an odd ball by any means.

I read Brown for his expertise on christian history and what the authors of the bible verses intended when they wrote it. Catholics and protestants use this information in a different manner.

Peace, JohnR

John, is Brown historically infallible?

The air is a lot fresher in Catholic Answers, doncha think?

Peace, Peter C

 

[kepha1]

stew,

I am in general agreement with Browns opinion about the book of James. It certainly belongs in the bible and Luther of course included it. Note that Eusebius in his History of the Church questions James as well as some other books later accepted.

I would add that I find that most Catholic scholars and bible experts including Brown use the historical critical approach to James and all else in the bible and christian history.
Brown was the president of the Catholic Bible Assn and the only American selected by two popes to the Pontifical Biblical Commission. He is not an odd ball by any means.

From what I’ve read, Brown BECAME an oddball AFTER his prestigious positions. He has to re-write the Gospels to fit his “history”. Like I told you in the CARM forum, he is more a journalist than a historian, out to make a buck. Read his biography.

I read Brown for his expertise on christian history and what the authors of the bible verses intended when they wrote it. Catholics and protestants use this information in a different manner.

If there is no consistency, there is no Christianity.

Peace, JohnR

I’m really happy to see you here, John. Some of your posts in the CRAM forum were outstanding