Church is an embarrassment

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Reformer45

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Although many Catholics have suspected that their leaders were hiding behind their righteous position to advance the power of the Church, these most recent developments are shockingly embarrassing and should shame all Catholics into aggressive action.

It is faintly possible that some of the allegations are exaggerated or untrue – but where there is smoke there is fire. Catholics must face up to the fact that the abundance of smoke has completely overwhelmed any modicum of deniability. It is incomprehensible that any of the thousands of clergy that have likely engaged in the sickening sexual abuse of minors should be free to roam after simply repenting their sins. These depraved souls should be permanently locked behind bars and publicly humiliated for their crimes against the victims, their communities and God. Anything less would be unacceptable in any other group and is obviously unacceptable for an organization that is responsible for providing fundamental moral guidance to its followers.

The Church has offered pitifully weak excuses and apologies and has failed to take even rudimentary action, despite the endemic, repeated and undeniable pattern of sexual criminal activity that is on the level of genocide. Instead, the Church should a) completely and utterly confess its sins just as it expects its members to, b) make its sole mission to aggressively pursue and prosecute predatory clergy in concert with public law enforcement until it can prove that all guilty parties have been removed and punished and c) fundamentally change its governance structure to allow transparency of its controls so that Catholics and the public can act as a “check” against the Church and ensure that if the Church survives this game-ending scandal, it does not renege on a firm guarantee to protect children.

If you disagree with me, ask yourself this, why do you support an organization that regularly rapes children? This abuse has been occurring for at least 75 years, and possibly for centuries. Without drastic cleansing action, the abuse will continue.
 
Oh please!

the enemies of the Church are friends.

Blessed be the Holy Church of God. blessed be God for always.
 
Reformer45 said:
Although many Catholics have suspected that their leaders were hiding behind their righteous position to advance the power of the Church, these most recent developments are shockingly embarrassing and should shame all Catholics into aggressive action.

It is faintly possible that some of the allegations are exaggerated or untrue – but where there is smoke there is fire. Catholics must face up to the fact that the abundance of smoke has completely overwhelmed any modicum of deniability. It is incomprehensible that any of the thousands of clergy that have likely engaged in the sickening sexual abuse of minors should be free to roam after simply repenting their sins. These depraved souls should be permanently locked behind bars and publicly humiliated for their crimes against the victims, their communities and God. Anything less would be unacceptable in any other group and is obviously unacceptable for an organization that is responsible for providing fundamental moral guidance to its followers.

The Church has offered pitifully weak excuses and apologies and has failed to take even rudimentary action, despite the endemic, repeated and undeniable pattern of sexual criminal activity that is on the level of genocide. Instead, the Church should a) completely and utterly confess its sins just as it expects its members to, b) make its sole mission to aggressively pursue and prosecute predatory clergy in concert with public law enforcement until it can prove that all guilty parties have been removed and punished and c) fundamentally change its governance structure to allow transparency of its controls so that Catholics and the public can act as a “check” against the Church and ensure that if the Church survives this game-ending scandal, it does not renege on a firm guarantee to protect children.

If you disagree with me, ask yourself this, why do you support an organization that regularly rapes children? This abuse has been occurring for at least 75 years, and possibly for centuries. Without drastic cleansing action, the abuse will continue.
Click to expand...
You don’t know what you are talking about. The abuse scandals coming into media attention recently, all come from 20, 30, 50 years ago. During that time some sent away the sex abuser Priests to be ‘‘cured,’’ using therapy, instead of reporting it. They didn’t learn from repeat offenders and then it became public. The recent cases now emerging in Austria and Germany, like those that have shocked the American, Canadian, Irish and Australian churches, all date back 20, 30 and even 50 years. They are not repeatable. There are now child protection systems in place in Churches which have been judged by outside experts to be working well.

Take note the following reforms since then:

In a statement, read out by Archbishop Silvano Maria Tomasi in September 2009, the Holy See stated “We know now that in the last 50 years somewhere between 1.5% and 5% of the Catholic clergy has been involved in sexual abuse cases,” adding that this figure was comparable with that of other groups and denominations.

A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse By Thomas Plante, Ph.D., ABPP, Department of Psychology, Santa Clara University says:

*However, although good data is hard to acquire, it appears that this 2 to 5% figure is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is lower than the general adult male population that is best estimated to be closer to 8%. Therefore, the odds that any random Catholic priest would sexually abuse a minor are not likely to be significantly higher than other males in or out of the clergy. Of course we expect better behavior from priests than from the average man on the street. While even one priest who abuses children is a major problem, we need to keep this issue in perspective and remember that the vast majority of priests do not abuse children.
*

psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

The number of Catholic clergy who abused minors is no higher than clergy of other denominations, and no higher than the general adult male population estimation.

Sexual Abuse in Social Context: Clergy and Other Professionals is a scholarly work that shows sexual abuse is not particularly prevalent within the Catholic hierarchy and that abuse is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests. In the report, a study titled “Sexual abuse of students in schools” by Carol Shakeshaft, the instance of prevalence with the NTC public school system is described.

catholicleague.org/specialreports.php?id=10

I think the problem that we all have is the whole issue of the covering up of it all. Bishops and Priests sending away the sex abuser Priests to be ‘‘cured,’’ using therapy, instead of reporting it. They didn’t learn from repeat offenders and then it became public. The recent cases now emerging in Austria and Germany, like those that have shocked the American, Canadian, Irish and Australian churches, all date back 20, 30 and even 50 years. They are not repeatable. There are now child protection systems in place in Churches which have been judged by outside experts to be working well.
 
These are the reforms the Church has taken:

The Catholic Church has done more to protect children than almost any other organization in the United States. Consider:
  • Safe Environment training is taking place in 193 dioceses/eparchies of the country. Over 2 million adults have been trained to recognize the behavior of offenders and what to do about it.
  • Background checks are conducted on Church personnel who have contact with children. Over 2 million volunteers and employees; 52,000 clerics; 6,205 candidates for ordination have had their backgrounds evaluated.
  • All dioceses/eparchies have Codes of Conduct spelling out what is acceptable behavior. This serves to let people know what can and cannot be done as well as letting others know what behavior can be expected. It encourages the reporting of suspicious behavior.
  • All dioceses/eparchies have Victim Assistance Coordinators, assuring victims that they will be heard. In 2009, $6,536,109 was spent on therapy for the victims of clergy sexual abuse.
  • All dioceses/eparchies have Safe Environment Coordinators who assure the ongoing
    compliance to the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People.
  • Bishops are meeting with victims.
  • Dioceses/eparchies have Healing Masses, retreats for victim/survivors and other
    reconciliation events.
  • There is a Zero Tolerance policy on abusers since 2002. If a credible accusation is made against a cleric, they are permanently removed from ministry regardless of how long ago the offense occurred.
  • Dioceses/eparchies require intensive background screening as well as psychological
    testing for those wishing to enter the seminary.
The Catholic Church has worked hard to protect children. Much has done but more needs to be done. Until child sexual abuse is no longer a part of society, the Church will continue its efforts to stop it.

catholicbook.org/ocyp/capmonth/what-has-cc-done-stop-sexual-abuse.pdf

Catholic News Service reported that, by 2008, the U.S. church had “trained 5.8 million children to recognize and report abuse. It had run criminal checks on 1.53 million volunteers and employees, 162,700 educators, 51,000 clerics and 4,955 candidates for ordination. It had trained 1.8 million clergy, employees and volunteers in creating a safe environment for children.”

*Catholic News Service (December 19, 2008 – January 1, 2009). "We dare not become complacent on abuse, says U.S. bishops’ new child protection head. Florida Catholic.
*
The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) perceived a lack of adequate procedures for the prevention of sexual abuse of minors, the reporting of allegations of such abuse and the handling of those reports. In June 2002, the USCCB moved to address these deficiencies by promulgating a Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People that pledged the Catholic Church in the U.S. to providing a “safe environment” for all children in Church-sponsored activities. The thrust of the charter was the adoption of a “zero tolerance” policy for sexual abuse.

beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Catholic/2002/06/Insiders-Guide-To-The-Catholic-Bishops-Conference.aspx

boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/06/18/catholic_bishops_retain_zero_tolerance_policy/

The Charter instituted reforms to prevent future abuse by requiring background checks for Church employees.

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (2005). “Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People”. United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Retrieved 8 October 2008.

usccb.org/ocyp/charter.shtml

The Charter requires dioceses faced with an allegation to alert the authorities, conduct an investigation and remove the accused from duty.

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (2005). “Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People”. United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Retrieved 8 October 2008.

“Scandals in the church: The Bishops’ Decisions; The Bishops’ Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People”. The New York Times. 2002-06-15. Retrieved 2008-02-12.

nytimes.com/2002/06/15/us/scandals-church-bishops-decisions-bishops-charter-for-protection-children-young.html?scp=1sq=Charter+for+the+Protection+of+Children+and+Young+People&st=nyt
 
The Vatican instituted reforms to prevent future United States abuse by requiring background checks for Church employees

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (2005). “Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People”. United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Retrieved 8 October 2008.

and issued new rules disallowing ordination of men with “deep–seated homosexual tendencies”. The US National Review Board cited the preponderance of adolescent males among the victims of clerical sexual abuse of minors in its report.

Filteau, Jerry (2004). “Report says clergy sexual abuse brought ‘smoke of Satan’ into church”. Catholic News Service. Retrieved 10 March 2008.

Pope Benedict XVI (2005). “Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders”. Vatican. Retrieved 2008-03-09.

They now require dioceses faced with an allegation to alert the authorities, conduct an investigation and remove the accused from duty.

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (2005). “Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People”. United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Retrieved 8 October 2008.

“Scandals in the church: The Bishops’ Decisions; The Bishops’ Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People”. The New York Times. 2002-06-15. Retrieved 2008-02-12.
There are strong child protection systems in places in Ireland as well. According to this article:

*The Catholic Church in Ireland now operates arguably the most robust child protection system in the country, something that is rarely acknowledged. The public still appears to believe that the Church has learned nothing, and done nothing. This is simply not true.
*
timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7068604.ece

I see no reason to believe this same system has not been adopted in the rest of Europe, Asia, Oceania and South America.
 
The actions of some people are an embarrassment, but the CHURCH is not.
 
It looks like a lot is being reaped for what was sown and covered up in the past…What is/was hidden in All groups will be revealed one day…
 
Reformer45, you can begin by reforming yourself. Your blanket accusations and statements are convenient and oh so easy to make. Why focus on a particular problem when you can go for the shotgun approach?
 
I am sure that many will take pleasure in the suffering of the Church. Satan and his minions will have a party… they will take polls, and demand and accounting, and hide in the shadows while they laugh and dance with their ilk…

We will mourn for the pain and then continue to praise our Priests, Bishops, Pope and Clergy and all those the many that serve others… of course their are some that are sinful, but most are not, and the mercy and good works of the Church is needed.
 
NEWCATHOLICJEFF said:
I am sure that many will take pleasure in the suffering of the Church. Satan and his minions will have a party… they will take polls, and demand and accounting, and hide **in the shadows **while they laugh and dance with their ilk…

We will mourn for the pain and then continue to praise our Priests, Bishops, Pope and Clergy and all those the many that serve others… of course their are some that are sinful, but most are not, and the mercy and good works of the Church is needed.
Click to expand...
in the shadows…and there they will remain.

Praying for the Church, our Priests, Bishops, Pope and all Catholics…
 
Reformer45, as many have said here, the Church as a whole is neither this nor that, it is not perfect, there are individuals in it who perhaps don’t belong in it. But the blanket statements that I spoke of, the shotgun effect, is neither accurate nor useful. It purports to condemn an entire body of people based on the actions of a very few, comparatively speaking. So in your view, because a few mayors of United States cities have been indicted in the past, all those cities are universally corrupt. Please please please focus your attention strictly on the people who are alleged to have committed crimes. And even then, only they know what steps they have taken re repentance and forgiveness. You will never know what is in their hearts.
To condemn an entire body of people based on the activities of a few? very very childish and ill-informed.
 
You totally invalidate any attempt to make a credible argument by saying; “ask yourself this, why do you support an organization that regularly rapes children? This abuse has been occurring for at least 75 years, and possibly for centuries. Without drastic cleansing action, the abuse will continue.”

While i agree that any abuse is unacceptable & must never be tolerated, most of the alleged cases occurred in the 60’s & 70’s. Numerous policies & safeguards have been put in place since then to screen & protect people from future abuses.

Every organization made up of human beings has a number of people who abuse, from families, to schools, to governments…

**It sounds like you subscribe to the Groucho Marx school of thought concerning any organization that accepts human beings as members! Groucho’s philosophy was; “I DON’T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER”. **

**Perhaps you should consider life in isolation as a hermit, praying & fasting constantly for the rest of us horrible sinners!
**
**No one in our organization, the Catholic Church, “regularly rapes children.” For every child that has been harmed, millions have been clothed, fed, educated, provided shelter, medical care & most importantly, have been given the Loving Gospel message of Salvation that can only be found through our Lord & Savior, Jesus Christ!
**

**We in the US believe that someone is “innocent until proven guilty”, except it seems when sexual abuse is alleged, especially against a member of the clergy.
**
**Because a small minority of the Catholic clergy have caused great harm to some & because the Bishops have made a mess of dealing with this situation, it does not diminish the immense good done by the 95+% of the clergy & other Catholics who provide spiritual, financial, medical, educational & other critical charitable support to millions around the world every day!
**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
 
I just returned from our small Catholic Church where I went to confession. My wife and two young girls accompanied me. While I waited in line, they went to the enclave devoted to Mary and my wife lit candles for our deceased loved ones. Later, we sat in the pew and tried to answer the questions inquisitive young minds ask, like, “Why are the statues covered in purple?”.

Before leaving, (amused by our little girl’s exagerated genuflections), we grabbed the form for ordering spring flowers which would support our “Parish Share” program. As we walked to the car, the girls pointed excitedly at the Catholic School which stands adjacent to the church, and exclaimed, “That’s our school! That’s our school!!” Each are enrolled and set to attend in the Fall.

That is the Roman Catholic Church wherein which my family practices our faith. So, to the poor, angry original poster whose wish is that these current scandals be a “game-ending” blow to the Universal Church, I can only suggest that you first try to gain proper perspective before you presuppose to speak definitively on a subject for which you obviously lack sufficient understanding.

Our Church, at its heart, is powered by the Holy Spirit, and is enlivened and bolstered by the simple dignity of those of us who practice the faith with humility and supreme trust in the One who founded Her. That sort of strength has true sustainability (see: History of the Roman Catholic Church). Don’t hold your breath waiting for that, “end-game”.
 
lemonbeam (I love your username by the way) thanks for posting the list or steps rather that the Church is taking now to ensure that this never happens again, to the best of Her ability. I appreciate reading that, I think it’s important to note that we as Catholics don’t and won’t turn a blind eye to any of this, but at the same time, reform is taking place, which should be encouraging.
 
The church is not an embarrassment. It seems that people forget that priests are human too. They are normal people and sometimes just as in any other establishment whether it be school, government, law enforcement or other churches some sick people pose as normal to get in. If you use this form of logic than all forms of social institution are an embarrassment due to the fact that this behavior can be found anywhere.

God Bless
Anzhelina
Pray for me; often when I cry to heaven for help it is when I feel most abandoned. But when I turn to God and his saints and thank them notwithstanding. I believe they want to see how far I shall trust them. But the words of Job have not entered my heart in vain: “Even if God should kill me, I would still trust him” (Job13:15)
  • St Teresa of Lisieux
 
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