Church is ultimate authority on The Bible

[Amy1]

How can I answer a question about the church being the ultimate authority on The Bible? I have been challenged that if the church is the ultimate authority, why should we have Bible studies? What’s the point of reading the Bible? How can I be Catholic when I believe the church is the ultimate authority?

I tried explaining the church gave us The Bible, the Catechism encourages us to read The Bible, using Lectio Divina is a form of prayer, etc.

Any advice you can give is much appreciated!

 

[Fauken]

I have been challenged that if the church is the ultimate authority, why should we have Bible studies? What’s the point of reading the Bible? How can I be Catholic when I believe the church is the ultimate authority?

2 Timothy 3:16-17:

“3:16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice:
3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.”

The Church interprets Scripture. Just because it interprets it doesn’t mean we ignore it.

1 Timothy 3:15:

“3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”

 

[JerryZ]

Well I would respond with:
The reason we have the Bible is because the Church gave it us.

Why we should read and have Bible studies? the answer is right there in the Gospels and someone has already answered it.

I am Catholic because I have certainty that the Church was founded by Jesus Christ, it has perdured for 2000 years as promised by Jesus and it will here waiting for HIS glorious return.

Peace!

 

[Anesti33]

We have Bible studies so that we may learn what the Church teaches about and in Sacred Scripture.

Catholic Bible studies are designed to use the Catechism of the Catholic Church as well as other sources, such as solid scholarship, to impart Church teaching and expand the horizons of those who read the Bible.

The Church does not need to send a bishop to each Bible study to assert her authority. She uses priests, deacons, and laymen to lead Bible studies, and although these teachers are not authoritative or infallible, they are still capable of being instruments of the Holy Spirit among the people of God.

 

[fhansen]

The Church, having been present at the beginnings of our faith, can give guidance regarding the Bible that can be found nowhere else. Scripture is inspirational in any case but a bunch of people reading it on their own often come up with a bunch of different interpretations and opinions, sometimes on very important truths of the faith, so care must be taken. Protestantism, due to their doctrine of Sola Scriptura, has produced just this very kind of confusion and division over the meaning of the Bible, and therefore different opinions of God’s will for man, within its own ranks.

 

[Vico]

…

Catechism of the Catholic Church

77 "In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority."35 Indeed, "the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time."36

35 DV 7 § 2; St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3,3,1G 7/1,848; Harvey,2,9.
36 DV 8 § 1.

104 In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it not as a human word, “but as what it really is, the word of God”.67 "In the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven comes lovingly to meet his children, and talks with them."68

67 1 Thes 2:13; cf. DV 24.
68 DV 21.

DV = Dei verbum
https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist...ents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

 

[Gorgias]

I have been challenged that if the church is the ultimate authority, why should we have Bible studies?

Folks with doctorates in math and physics are authorities; but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t study math and physics, does it?

What’s the point of reading the Bible?

To learn about salvation history, and God’s eternal plan for us.

How can I be Catholic when I believe the church is the ultimate authority?

I don’t know that I’d say “ultimate authority.” They have authority that was given to them by Jesus himself, but that doesn’t make the Church the “ultimate authority”. I’d say that God is the “ultimate authority.”

Maybe that’s the question you’re asking? Whether you worship the Church as if it it were God? It isn’t. But, it is authoritative, and founded by Jesus.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The Church is the ultimate authority on interpreting the Bible. That doesn’t mean that we can’t

• read the Bible (many people don’t even do that much)
• appreciate the Bible
• think about and discuss what the Bible is telling us and how we apply it to our own lives today

A lot of Bible reading and study does not involve “interpreting the Bible” at all, or doesn’t involve “interpreting the Bible” in a manner that would conflict with the Church’s teaching and thus require the Church to exert its authority.

I’ve been reading the Bible for quite some time and don’t remember ever having an issue with the Church’s authority in doing so, since I wasn’t coming up with crazy interpretations of my own like “this verse means we shouldn’t have a Pope” and “this verse means I’m supposed to take a bunch of people and go start my own church/ cult”. This really isn’t rocket science.

 

[Anesti33]

Maybe that’s the question you’re asking? Whether you worship the Church as if it it were God? It isn’t. But, it is authoritative, and founded by Jesus.

Since the Church is feminine, she obviously can’t be God.

 

[Rockoh22]

There are many ways to have the discussion. This is one that I particularly like to have, but the discussion depends on the other person willingness to accept certain facts. Like, the Church existed before the Bible. Bible is (Greek) I think for book. There are many more ways to have the discussion, but it is a dynamic one, so adjust as you see fit.

I say to you. Learn at least basic history of how the Bible came to exist. From the early writings, to the different interpretations due to language barriers and the reasons why St Jerome was chosen and what did he do. How long was the Latin Vulgate bible used. When did other translations came to exist and why? Who removed books. What other translations? Do not forget our Eastern Catholics who have more books than we do. That also is part of the discussion.

And the Ultimate question. Authority. Always go to authority. Who had the Authority to authorize the Bible? That be the ultimate discussion, and it always bring you to the Pope. Bishops had a say on what books belonged in the Bible. But it was only the Pope who Authorized it. The Bishops did the ground work and arguments. But the Pope was the final Authority.

 

[Anesti33]

And the Ultimate question. Authority. Always go to authority. Who had the Authority to authorize the Bible? That be the ultimate discussion, and it always bring you to the Pope. Bishops had a say on what books belonged in the Bible. But it was only the Pope who Authorized it. The Bishops did the ground work and arguments. But the Pope was the final Authority.

I would say that the Ordinary Magisterium ratified the Canon of Scripture long before (and after) a Pope put his seal on it.

 

[Gorgias]

I would say that the Ordinary Magisterium ratified the Canon of Scripture long before (and after) a Pope put his seal on it.

Hmm… not sure I’d agree. Some churches were using additional books in their ‘canon’ and in their liturgies (the Didache, the Shepherd of Hermas, etc). For the canon of Scripture (as an integral whole) to be “ordinary magisterium”, it would have to be accepted everywhere and by everyone, right?

So, I think I’d go with the extraordinary magisterium on this one – it was by explicit declaration of the Church (that is, the pope in union with the college of bishops) that the canon was put in place.

 

[Anesti33]

The Ordinary Magisterium does not go by 100% compliance. Nothing would be taught if that were the case.

And I’d have to know which Council you have in mind. Trent closed the Canon but its contents were settled over a long period of time.

 

[Gorgias]

The Ordinary Magisterium does not go by 100% compliance. Nothing would be taught if that were the case.

What’s the definition of the “ordinary magisterium”, then?

And I’d have to know which Council you have in mind. Trent closed the Canon but its contents were settled over a long period of time.

…as a result of conciliar declarations. No distinction in method here.

 

[Anesti33]

What’s the definition of the “ordinary magisterium”, then?

Consensus. The same as we find in the Church Fathers. There’s always that one Father who disagreed a little bit, and detractors bring him up to say “aha!” But the Church operates on a consensus, and when she can’t, she holds a Council.

The Ordinary Magisterium is the unanimous College of Bishops. The Councils are an exercise of the Extraordinary Magisterium, however contrary to @Rockoh22 it is not the ex cathedra pronouncement of the Pope, but rather the unanimous College of Bishops along with the Pope who ratify Council canons.

 

[Gorgias]

Consensus. The same as we find in the Church Fathers. There’s always that one Father who disagreed a little bit, and detractors bring him up to say “aha!” But the Church operates on a consensus, and when she can’t, she holds a Council.

CCC 892:

Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a “definitive manner,” they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals.

I’ve always heard this explained as “in all places and all times”. Not just “general consensus, and ignore those bishops who say otherwise.”

The Ordinary Magisterium is the unanimous College of Bishops.

There we go! Not general “consensus” with dissenters, then, but unanimity. So… we know that this wasn’t the case. However, we know that councils brought up the question, and resolved it in terms of an explicit canon.

I think we’re largely saying the same thing here, but are looking at it from different angles.

 

[Anesti33]

There we go! Not general “consensus” with dissenters, then, but unanimity . So… we know that this wasn’t the case. However, we know that councils brought up the question, and resolved it in terms of an explicit canon.

It is interesting that you bring up councils and unanimity. Firstly, “unanimous” means “of one heart and mind” but you probably think it is defined as “without a single dissenter”, which is simply a connotation picked up in modernity. We work with more refined definitions of words in the Church.

https://www.thearda.com/Archive/Files/Descriptions/VATICAN.asp

https://www.encyclopedia.com/philos...-churches-councils-and-treaties/council-trent

Interestingly, the vote to condemn Luther’s propositions was “nearly unanimous” as put by the encyclopedia, so there were still some dissenters, and yet they went ahead to condemn Luther anyway. Many votes on the Second Vatican Council were quite divisive. I know that Sacrosanctum concilium passed handily, but not “unanimously”.

And the same goes for Councils throughout history, operating on consensus. I don’t think I buy the proposition that one bad apple spoils the lot. It’s more nuanced than that.

 

[Gorgias]

It is interesting that you bring up councils and unanimity.

Councils don’t work on unanimity. The “ordinary magisterium”, however, seems to suggest exactly that dynamic. It would be important to distinguish between the two.

 

[porthos11]

Yes the Church is the final authoritative interpreter of the Bible but Catholics are under misconceptions as to what that means.

First, the Church has not issued an authoritative interpretation on every single verse of the Bible.

Next of the very few verses that have definitive interpretation, it is not to the exclusion of others.

Next, the Church does not discourage private interpretation. This is a large myth in Catholic circles. The faithful are to use the Scriptures even in their private times to encounter God. There are four senses of Scripture and when used well, the treasures of the Word are inexhaustible. What the Church does is lay down a perimeter. Within this perimeter, we enjoy a lot of freedom. This perimeter is to not interpret Scripture outside of or against Sacred Tradition or to adopt an interpretation contrary to the Church’s own.

Within this perimeter, take and read! The Word speaks in many ways to different people even if it is the same passage. And that is how it should be.

 

[Anesti33]

Anesti33:

It is interesting that you bring up councils and unanimity.

Councils don’t work on unanimity. The “ordinary magisterium”, however, seems to suggest exactly that dynamic. It would be important to distinguish between the two.

Are you sending me on a quest? Do I understand you to say that if one single bishop denies a teaching once in history, it is not Magisterial?