Church marriage

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Fox

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Why do you have to jump through hoops getting married sacramentally in the Church when you have been with a person civilly for over 20 years. Why does one need to go to a class before it happens even after all those years together? Why all the bureaucratic red tape and legalism?

Why is it that if you are divorced civilly you still need an annulment even if you aren’t even a catholic and want to be married in the church to a practising catholic?

Why does the Church make it hard to get married sacramentally if they don’t believe a civil marriage means nothing, if they did then they would just bless the marriage without all the hooplah.
 
You have many misconceptions about what the Church considers a sacramental or valid marriage.

So don’t jump. Easy.
But if you want to be in line with what the Church teaches, you take the time to learn about it.
Not everything turns out to be difficult.
Getting married in the Church is important to people of faith.
It has to do with adultery.
Marriage is for life. “till death do us part” remember?
You walk away and take up with someone else, that first marriage has to be dealt with.
 
A lot of questions that have lengthy answers. I’ll try a few short ones
Why the hoops, because the church takes very seriously one, the nature of the sacrament as defined by Christ - (what God has joined together, no man may put asunder). Given the divorce rate today, some serious preparation is needed to assure that the couple understands the nature and requirements of marriage.
Two, the church respects the valid marriage of validly baptized persons, even if not of the Catholic faith. That’s why it is rigorous even for non catholics if the church considers their marriage valid.
An annulment is required to determine that parties are free to enter into a sacramental marriage. Again, that “till death do us part” idea. Marriage is a lifetime commitment when considered a sacrament.
It isn’t the “civil” part that is at issue, it is whether the parties are Christian and are validly baptized. The church honors and respect marriage between the baptized of all Christian denominations.
Why does one need to go to class. Probably for the same reason that men desiring to enter the priesthood have to put in many years of study and discernment before ordination.
My two cents in a quick nutshell.
 
Fox said:
Why do you have to jump through hoops getting married sacramentally in the Church when you have been with a person civilly for over 20 years.
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I think you mean, why do you have to do premarital preparation. That is because you are approaching the church for the sacrament of marriage. Just like all sacraments, the sacrament of marriage requires preparation with your pastor. You are asking for a sacrament, and sacraments and the church requires preparation for all of them. additionally, with the sacrament of marriage (and holy orders) investigation must be conducted to ensure nothing stands in the way of validity.
Fox said:
Why does one need to go to a class before it happens even after all those years together?
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People approaching the church for the sacrament of marriage need sacramental preparation. It need not be in a class. Your particular parish may choose to do some of the preparation in that way. It is something you can discuss with your pastor. There are many ways for a couple to prepare for the sacrament, and if there is something that prevents attending a “class” then ask your pastor for alternatives.
Fox said:
Why all the bureaucratic red tape and legalism?
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that is one view of things. The other view is that sacraments are serious, and those asking for them need to properly instructed, prepared, and in a state of grace.
Fox said:
Why is it that if you are divorced civilly you still need an annulment even if you aren’t even a catholic and want to be married in the church to a practising catholic?
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Marriage is a natural institution. Non-Catholics validly marry each other when they marry. Civil divorce does not dissolve the bond formed between two people when they marry. If there is a valid bond, the person is not free to enter into another marriage.
Fox said:
Why does the Church make it hard to get married sacramentally if they don’t believe a civil marriage means nothing, if they did then they would just bless the marriage without all the hooplah.
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the Church does not believe civil marriages mean nothing. You seem to have some misinformation.
 
The Church actually cares about your soul and your heart. The civil government barely cares about whether you have a pulse or not.
 
My premarital preparation took 1 weekend. I was not civilly married to the guy but we had been “dating” for 10 years.
If they want you to do a long prep, ask if there are alternatives available that might be more suitable for older or established couples. We thought the prep was not all that helpful apart from getting to spend the weekend together in a beautiful location and pray, but we did our duty and attended anyway just to check the box.
 
Fox said:
Why do you have to jump through hoops getting married sacramentally in the Church when you have been with a person civilly for over 20 years. Why does one need to go to a class before it happens even after all those years together? Why all the bureaucratic red tape and legalism?

Why is it that if you are divorced civilly you still need an annulment even if you aren’t even a catholic and want to be married in the church to a practising catholic?

Why does the Church make it hard to get married sacramentally if they don’t believe a civil marriage means nothing, if they did then they would just bless the marriage without all the hooplah.
Click to expand...
Every Catholic marriage is to include some preparation and verification that there are no impediments that cannot be dispensed. There are also certain promises to be made when both are not Catholic. Cases when both are not Catholic require either: “permission to enter into a mixed marriage.” or “dispensation from disparity of cult.”

One impediment is having a prior bond, which requires an investigation to determined if it was valid.
 
Because anyone who cares about receiving the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony should also care about having the knowledge of the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

21% of Catholic marriages result in a civil divorce, which in most cases is a sin. I believe the Church doesn’t address this enough. Many Catholics do not believe that contraception is a sin against Holy Matrimony. Many Catholics believe if their spouse in unfaithful, they are justified to divorce and marry another.
 
Fox said:
Why do you have to jump through hoops getting married sacramentally in the Church when you have been with a person civilly for over 20 years.
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You don’t, unless certain other things apply. For example, if two unbaptized atheists were childhood sweethearts and civilly married and then twenty years later joined the Church, there would be zero red tape. They would already be considered to be married. Upon both being baptized, their marriage would be sacramental just by that.

The red tape is due to the original marriage, the one before the 20 year civil one.
 
Common sense.

But yes, I could be wrong. I could be the fool.

First, all divorce contains sin.

I’m guessing most Catholic divorces result in annulments, no? That alone puts all those in “porneia”. Or do you think most annulments are free of sin, with innocent spouses?

Then, the majority which are not annulled most likely do not live abstinent. How many divorced Catholics have you heard of where the “innocent” spouse remains single and abstinent? Most people I mention that law to, look at me like I have three nostrils.

I think there are rare situations when there is an innocent spouse. I’m sure it happens, but it has to be very, very rare.
 
I think I agree with you…

But I have a question about that situation. After this couple gets married, is there marriage automatically Sacramental and indissoluable?

Or if 30, 60, 3000 days later, they apply for an annulment, would they receive one?

I’m hoping not, but I have skepticism about some decrees of annulments.
 
When my husband and I had our marriage convalidated after converting, our prep class took about an hour, we just watched a few videos. You shouldn’t have to go through pre-Cana if you are already civally married. The videos went over things we had already learned but they also contained some very informative things. They just want to make sure that you know what you are doing. Convalidation is not just renewing your existing vows, it is a new commitment, whereby you are being joined by God in a way that is permanent. Hope this helps, and good luck to you!
 
Gingersnaps4 said:
You shouldn’t have to go through pre-Cana if you are already civally married.
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That’s not true. It’s something that’s up to the pastor’s discretion.

(Personally, I think the case can be made that, if a Catholic marries civilly and then later approaches convalidation, s/he’s already demonstrated that there’s some sort of lack in understanding of Catholic catechesis, and therefore, a Pre-Cana program would be both good and appropriate! 😉 )
 
Fox said:
Why do you have to jump through hoops getting married sacramentally in the Church when you have been with a person civilly for over 20 years.
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Because the Church has dominion over what it defines as “marriage”. Not you. Not me.
 
Gorgias said:
(Personally, I think the case can be made that, if a Catholic marries civilly and then later approaches convalidation, s/he’s already demonstrated that there’s some sort of lack in understanding of Catholic catechesis, and therefore, a Pre-Cana program would be both good and appropriate! 😉 )
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That does make sense. In our case we converted to Catholicism together so neither of us had been Catholic, and we had been married for over 10 years. So I suppose it does vary based on personal circumstance.
 
rcwitness said:
Or if 30, 60, 3000 days later, they apply for an annulment, would they receive one?
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It is definitely not sacramental until both parties are baptized. It would be what is called a natural marriage (presuming validity) before baptism. After baptism, it would be sacramental.

Whether or not the couple could receive a declaration of nullity depends on if the authorities can determine to a reasonable level of certainty that the original marriage was invalid. If they can so determine, then the Church would rule them free to marry other people. But the tribunal could get it wrong. Presumably that is why it was required in the past to go to the court of second instance or opinion or whatever and have it checked out before being granted. But if memory serves, the pope recently removed that requirement in uncontested cases.

I’m saying the Church declaration is not coextensive with what is actually the case. It is conceivable to me that a truly sacramental marriage might be accidentally declared to not have been valid. For example, if people lied to the tribunal. But that would not change the actual validity of the marriage. And the person who lied would be guilty. To the best of my knowledge.
 
Is it the bishop who decides how long preparation takes, or is it down to each individual pastor?

I’ve seen it take anywhere from an entire year to an evening after work.
 
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